Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 654675 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

preston

Athens, OH

#406663 Dec 3, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
True, Justin was born after. My mistake.
Ignatius was not. He was a student of John the Apostle.
Apostolic succession is not a new idea. Apostolic fathers and their writings are not new either.
Ignatius was a Catholic Bishop. Not an agnostic.
anything after the deaths of the original apostles can be considered new, which is how I was looking at it,since it was thought to be factual during the time of clement.

but according to the words that peter quoted from the OT author, Matthias was not given the title of an Apostle, was he?

the author called it the office of a Bishoprick, if I am not mistaken, and he was chosen to take part in their ministry, by the casting of lots. and tho your church does follow this example partially, diverting by your cardinals voting for the next pope, which the Apostles never did.so this to me would take away from any discussion of any pope being an Apostle, which they are not.

to be an Apostle, a man would first have to see the Lord, then he would have to be chosen By God. not necessarily in that particular Order.

being a Gnostic(knowledge leads to Salvation of the soul) is different that being an agnostic(who doesnt beleive in a deity)
preston

Athens, OH

#406664 Dec 3, 2012
preston wrote:
<quoted text>you do realize that with the minimum wages being paid back then, it wasnt difficult to find well educated men to copy the greek into latin, dont you?
only one person got my humor.

not you two who marked my reply as clueless, you two are the clueless.

look closer at two words "miminum wages". they didnt have that 2000 years ago.even a nitwit should have recognized it was meant to be a joke.

not only that, it would have been difficult to translate the bible from greek and hebrew into latin.

some of you people got no sense of humor nor any intelligence to recognize it.
preston

Athens, OH

#406665 Dec 3, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Disagreements were common then and common now. This is why Christ established one leader to make such decisions. Otherwise, how would we know what is the correct teachings?
The Holy Spirit telling all of us individually?? Well, we know that can't be true.
I agree on your last two sentences.

and we can see that on this forum. this forum represents many false doctrines, and many of them who present them as being factual and Biblical havent got enough sense to get out of the rain
Dust Storm

Minneapolis, MN

#406666 Dec 3, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah thank you.
Because that is what all non Catholics on this board quietly believe but will never say.
'translating the bible is easier today because knowledge has increased'
Basically, what you're saying is:
1. Men like Ignatius and Justin, who sat along side Peter and John, were not smart enough to comprehend the teachings. So that's why they misunderstood the Apostles and thought the Eucharist was to be the actual body and blood.
2. Christ was REALLY waiting for the likes of you guys to be born so you can figure out His true teachings by picking apart Revelation etc.
3. This is why its laughable that many of you call the Catholic Church arrogant.
Not Justin, but Ignatious.

Also called Theophorus (ho Theophoros); born in Syria, around the year 50; died at Rome between 98 and 117.

More than one of the earliest ecclesiastical writers have given credence, though apparently without good reason, to the legend that Ignatius was the child whom the Savior took up in His arms, as described in Mark 9:35. It is also believed, and with great probability, that, with his friend Polycarp, he was among the auditors of the Apostle St. John. If we include St. Peter, Ignatius was the third Bishop of Antioch and the immediate successor of Evodius (Eusebius, Church History II.3.22). Theodoret ("Dial. Immutab.", I, iv, 33a, Paris, 1642) is the authority for the statement that St. Peter appointed Ignatius to the See of Antioch. St. John Chrysostom lays special emphasis on the honor conferred upon the martyr in receiving his episcopal consecration at the hands of the Apostles themselves ("Hom. in St. Ig.", IV. 587). Natalis Alexander quotes Theodoret to the same effect (III, xii, art. xvi, p. 53).

It is scarcely possible to exaggerate the importance of the testimony which the Ignatian letters offer to the dogmatic character of Apostolic Christianity. The martyred Bishop of Antioch constitutes a most important link between the Apostles and the Fathers of the early Church. Receiving from the Apostles themselves, whose auditor he was, not only the substance of revelation, but also their own inspired interpretation of it; dwelling, as it were, at the very fountain-head of Gospel truth, his testimony must necessarily carry with it the greatest weight and demand the most serious consideration. Cardinal Newman did not exaggerate the matter when he said ("The Theology of the Seven Epistles of St. Ignatius", in "Historical Sketches", I, London, 1890) that "the whole system of Catholic doctrine may be discovered, at least in outline, not to say in parts filled up, in the course of his seven epistles". Among the many Catholic doctrines to be found in the letters are the following:

Dust Storm

Minneapolis, MN

#406667 Dec 3, 2012
the Church was Divinely established as a visible society, the salvation of souls is its end, and those who separate themselves from it cut themselves off from God (Philadelphians 3)
the hierarchy of the Church was instituted by Christ (Introduction to Philadelphians; Ephesians 6)
the threefold character of the hierarchy (Magnesians 6)
the order of the episcopacy superior by Divine authority to that of the priesthood (Magnesians 6 and 13; Smyrnæans 8; Trallians 3)
the unity of the Church (Trallians 6; Philadelphians 3; Magnesians 13)
the holiness of the Church (Smyrnæans, Ephesians, Magnesians, Trallians and Romans)
the catholicity of the Church (Smyrnæans 8); the infallibility of the Church (Philadelphians 3; Ephesians 16-17)
the doctrine of the Eucharist (Smyrnæans 8), which word we find for the first time applied to the Blessed Sacrament, just as in Smyrnæans 8, we meet for the first time the phrase "Catholic Church", used to designate all Christians
the Incarnation (Ephesians 18); the supernatural virtue of virginity, already much esteemed and made the subject of a vow (Polycarp 5)
the religious character of matrimony (Polycarp 5)
the value of united prayer (Ephesians 13)
the primacy of the See of Rome (Introduction to Romans 13)
He, moreover, denounces in principle the Protestant doctrine of private judgment in matters of religion (Philadelphians 3), The heresy against which he chiefly inveighs is Docetism. Neither do the Judaizing heresies escape his vigorous condemnation.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07644a.htm

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#406668 Dec 3, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to have this thought in your head that catholicism makes the world go around. I am sure years ago most catholics would agree with you on many issues within the church. Today as you now know that is all changing.
1) MOST catholics do not attend mandatory sunday mass. Bishops conference in 2010 indicate that.
2) MOST catholics use or have used forms of birth control to plan their families so unwanted children aren't born.
3) Recently poll after poll indicates well over 50% of roman catholics in the USA favor same sex marriages.
4) VAST majority of catholic laity and many clergy favor optional celebacy.
5) Many roman catholics today favor women priests.
6) More catholic women per 1000 have abortions in america than protestant women.(I myself am pro-life)
There is nothing wrong with being a lone wolf Regina M. but as you can see catholic attitudes about church doctrines and rules and regulations are changing quickly. In the next few years as young catholics come along their attitudes too will reflect their own personal feelings about issues that disagree with the church.
You can be mad at those catholics but again its a new world and people are using their educated knowledge to decide for themselves, and not have an organization make all their decisions for them as you follow.
Michael

Don't worry about it....

And what you fail to understand is that Catholicism is not a popularity contest....

You have chosen....Yes. We get it....You have chosen to live in a world that is dictated to by populism(and think according to popular ideas dictated to by "news" media), so you expect everyone else will fall in line at some point in time.

Don't worry about it. Catholics will be around for awhile. And you can keep throwing rocks at them. Why not try the stained glass windows while your at it? Its the popular thing to do(Protestants did it when they started out....Just follow the crowd....Don't let the door hit you on the way out.....

Yout problem is that you want everyone to think the way you do. It just isn't going to happen.
Michael

Canada

#406669 Dec 3, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Shrinking Mass attendance...why? Because all the parishioners had it with Catholicism?
Exactly, you don't report the truth. You try to do a drive by smear. This is deception, and proves you have a bigoted agenda.
You can wish all you want and desperately attempt to bring down the Church, but you'll lose.
What's it like to be on the losing end? Knowing your rabid anti Catholic agenda won't do nothing but secure your fate. The Church will be operating for another 2,000 yrs, and there is nothing you can do about it.
If 21 churches closed as per the ARCH DIOCESE it wasn't because they were expanding now were they.

Why do you get so upset when something in your church doesn't go right? When churches close you blame me. When abuse scandals keep on coming you blame me.

You should start become pro-active in your church and maybe find out what the hell is going on instead of shifting the blame to others.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#406670 Dec 3, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately, it does.
It just goes to show how we get to choose what to believe, no matter how complete or incomplete one's belief may seem to theirself.
Cheers!
NASL

Oh, don't get so depressed over it...

St. Augustine, "“Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe.”"

There are plenty of rewards.
preston

Athens, OH

#406671 Dec 3, 2012
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Not Justin, but Ignatious.
Also called Theophorus (ho Theophoros); born in Syria, around the year 50; died at Rome between 98 and 117.
More than one of the earliest ecclesiastical writers have given credence, though apparently without good reason, to the legend that Ignatius was the child whom the Savior took up in His arms, as described in Mark 9:35. It is also believed, and with great probability, that, with his friend Polycarp, he was among the auditors of the Apostle St. John. If we include St. Peter, Ignatius was the third Bishop of Antioch and the immediate successor of Evodius (Eusebius, Church History II.3.22). Theodoret ("Dial. Immutab.", I, iv, 33a, Paris, 1642) is the authority for the statement that St. Peter appointed Ignatius to the See of Antioch. St. John Chrysostom lays special emphasis on the honor conferred upon the martyr in receiving his episcopal consecration at the hands of the Apostles themselves ("Hom. in St. Ig.", IV. 587). Natalis Alexander quotes Theodoret to the same effect (III, xii, art. xvi, p. 53).
It is scarcely possible to exaggerate the importance of the testimony which the Ignatian letters offer to the dogmatic character of Apostolic Christianity. The martyred Bishop of Antioch constitutes a most important link between the Apostles and the Fathers of the early Church. Receiving from the Apostles themselves, whose auditor he was, not only the substance of revelation, but also their own inspired interpretation of it; dwelling, as it were, at the very fountain-head of Gospel truth, his testimony must necessarily carry with it the greatest weight and demand the most serious consideration. Cardinal Newman did not exaggerate the matter when he said ("The Theology of the Seven Epistles of St. Ignatius", in "Historical Sketches", I, London, 1890) that "the whole system of Catholic doctrine may be discovered, at least in outline, not to say in parts filled up, in the course of his seven epistles". Among the many Catholic doctrines to be found in the letters are the following:
no one even seems to be certain when he was born, let alone be that child that jesus held, and also there is no Biblcal evidence that jesus ever walked in Syria. so it must be a legend tha is false and for what ever reason why your church would wish to exploit that, remains a mystery, doesnt It.

and also if he wasnt born until 98, he wasnt even known by john just as polycarp(another legend told without being factual) wasnt.

Ignatius of Antioch (ca. 35 or 50-between 98 and 117) was among the Apostolic Fathers, was the third Bishop of Antioch
Clay

Denver, CO

#406672 Dec 3, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
If 21 churches closed as per the ARCH DIOCESE it wasn't because they were expanding now were they.
Why do you get so upset when something in your church doesn't go right? When churches close you blame me. When abuse scandals keep on coming you blame me.
You should start become pro-active in your church and maybe find out what the hell is going on instead of shifting the blame to others.
I live if MN. I live in Saint Paul. I know why they closed, and it has nothing to do with Catholics leaving the parishes. Its simple demographics.
you got caught trying to be deceptive. You should just say sorry and move on to the next shocking, breaking story. Lol
Seriously, get help. You obsess over the Catholic Church, and its rather creepy.
preston

Athens, OH

#406673 Dec 3, 2012
preston wrote:
<quoted text>no one even seems to be certain when he was born, let alone be that child that jesus held, and also there is no Biblcal evidence that jesus ever walked in Syria. so it must be a legend tha is false and for what ever reason why your church would wish to exploit that, remains a mystery, doesnt It.
and also if he wasnt born until 98, he wasnt even known by john just as polycarp(another legend told without being factual) wasnt.
Ignatius of Antioch (ca. 35 or 50-between 98 and 117) was among the Apostolic Fathers, was the third Bishop of Antioch
from this one incident, a whole theolgy and doctrine has come forth.

Polycarp taught Irenaeus, and passed on to him stories about John. In Against Heresies, Irenaeus relates how Polycarp told a story of

“ John, the disciple of the Lord, going to bathe at Ephesus, and perceiving Cerinthus within, rushed out of the bath-house without bathing, exclaiming, "Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is within."[14]”

from seeing john at a bathhouse to being a beloved disciple.
preston

Athens, OH

#406674 Dec 3, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I live if MN. I live in Saint Paul. I know why they closed, and it has nothing to do with Catholics leaving the parishes. Its simple demographics.
you got caught trying to be deceptive. You should just say sorry and move on to the next shocking, breaking story. Lol
Seriously, get help. You obsess over the Catholic Church, and its rather creepy.
mike does a much better job defending gif against me picking on him and his wife.
he should make that his primary employment.
Clay

Denver, CO

#406675 Dec 3, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
If 21 churches closed as per the ARCH DIOCESE it wasn't because they were expanding now were they.
Why do you get so upset when something in your church doesn't go right? When churches close you blame me. When abuse scandals keep on coming you blame me.
You should start become pro-active in your church and maybe find out what the hell is going on instead of shifting the blame to others.
I get upset because all you post is propaganda and gossip. You try in vain, to blow up news stories and keep topics like, child sexual abuse, on the front page.
Yes, I think you are a sociopath.
You attempted to deceptively tell the world that Catholic churches in MN are closing due to attendance- which you imply had to do with dissatisfaction of Catholicism. Your a cheat and a con artist.
You post a story about a Catholic Priest who's publicly speaking out against the Church, to imply there is widespread chaos in the Church.

You expect me to be happy about that?

Are you that insecure about your choice to leave the Catholic faith? Yup. If you were content with just being a former Catholic, you wouldn't bother trying to bring everyone else down to your level.
Michael

Canada

#406676 Dec 3, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Michael
Don't worry about it....
And what you fail to understand is that Catholicism is not a popularity contest....
You have chosen....Yes. We get it....You have chosen to live in a world that is dictated to by populism(and think according to popular ideas dictated to by "news" media), so you expect everyone else will fall in line at some point in time.
Don't worry about it. Catholics will be around for awhile. And you can keep throwing rocks at them. Why not try the stained glass windows while your at it? Its the popular thing to do(Protestants did it when they started out....Just follow the crowd....Don't let the door hit you on the way out.....
Yout problem is that you want everyone to think the way you do. It just isn't going to happen.
Robert says.......your problem is that you want everyone to think the way you do. It just isn't going to happen.

Michael says.....Isn't that the agenda of the catholic church? Go out and teach the world to believe just like YOU, that you are right and everyone else is wrong?

There are thousands of christian denominations and sects, ALL using the same "inspired words of God" to prove each of their own conflicting doctrines. lol!

Wrong again Robert. I never claimed I live by populism. Remember I, like so many on this forum, are former catholics. I am independant and belong to no group.

During the past few years the catholic church has been in the news, several times for bad news stories. Many of them right in america. I follow them and wonder how so many things could go wrong.

Worldwide sex abuse scandals that we now know have gone on since the inception of the church, and have occured in almost every diocese in america. Court cases going on as I post. Thats not good! Are catholics more concerned in preserving the sanctity of the church over our children? That is exactly what church authorities did, until they got caught. Where have the voices of catholics been on this most disgusting matter? DEAFENING SILENCE! The biggest story in 500 years in your catholic church and you find it more interesting to find fault with protestants.

Vatican Bank money laundering scandals for the second time in just a few years. Do you really know where your money goes, and how it is spent? Do you even know about this issue?

2 investigations of 47,000 nuns in america as the vatican claims they are all radical feminists. I often post about this huge story that is only going to get bigger.

I bring current event news, though to some it might not be positive news but news just the same that catholics should know about. If they don't care, or put their heads in the sand as they usually do when its issues about them, then they don't have to respond to my posts.

Today educated catholics want to know about their church. The good deeds and bad and they are not afraid to ask. Old guards like you are a fading breed who never questions anything the church does right or wrong, and the church loves you for that.

When you watch the 6:00 oclock news tonight and bad news is reported, as it always is, turn your tv off.




Michael

Canada

#406677 Dec 3, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I get upset because all you post is propaganda and gossip. You try in vain, to blow up news stories and keep topics like, child sexual abuse, on the front page.
Yes, I think you are a sociopath.
You attempted to deceptively tell the world that Catholic churches in MN are closing due to attendance- which you imply had to do with dissatisfaction of Catholicism. Your a cheat and a con artist.
You post a story about a Catholic Priest who's publicly speaking out against the Church, to imply there is widespread chaos in the Church.
You expect me to be happy about that?
Are you that insecure about your choice to leave the Catholic faith? Yup. If you were content with just being a former Catholic, you wouldn't bother trying to bring everyone else down to your level.
CLAY......you are like a mini HOJO. Your church can do no wrong. Its always someone elses fault or someone is making something up.

When did I blow up stories? I have asked you that several times. I reported to you today what the ARCH-DIOCESE stated. Is that not official enough for you.

If 21 churches are closing and the bishop says its because of falling attendance and shortage of priests, that is what I went with, shouldn't that peak the interests of catholics? Why is there a shortage of priests? Why are the most holy men and women in the catholic church not answering the call to the priest/sisterhood as they did in the past? Legitimate questions in a church today mired in suspicion, turmoi and scandals.

When you watch the news on TV and its bad news do you turn the TV off, or are you interested in why the news is bad?

If the news is bad about someone else's religion I am sure you are listening, but when its about your church and FACTUAL information is given, you just get defensive instead of giving logical answers........SAD!

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#406678 Dec 3, 2012
Fun Facts wrote:
My dear sock puppet, thank you for the worthless links. It shows that people, in order to control others, can make anything out of nothing!
Michael

Canada

#406679 Dec 3, 2012
CLAY:

Again, here is what the news article stated, and this is what I posted.

----------

......St. Paul, Minn.— The Archdiocese of St. Paul Minneapolis announced plans Saturday to close 21 Catholic churches in the Twin Cities metro area, with several dozen more to share priests, some staff and services.

The changes are needed to help the archdiocese, which serves about 800,000 Catholics across 12 counties, deal with FEWER Catholic priests, SHRINKING CHURCH ATTENDANCE and the aging of those Catholics that remain, and geographical shifts of churchgoing populations, church officials said.

Fewer priests as I stated.

Shrinking church attendance as I stated.

As we know across america according to the ROMAN CATHOLIC BISHOPS CONFERENCE in Florida in 2010, only 1 out of ever 4 catholics today attend sunday service, and that the report also indicated that 10% of american adults today are former catholics.

News worthy stories. I post them.

Who doesn't want to know whats going on?
Michael

Canada

#406680 Dec 3, 2012
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
My dear sock puppet, thank you for the worthless links. It shows that people, in order to control others, can make anything out of nothing!
TheBlackSheep.....



No one in the ENTIRE MEDITERANEAN past and present, outside of a handful of agenda driven christian ONLY writers ever mentions a miracle man named Jesus. I wonder why???
Michael

Canada

#406681 Dec 3, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I get upset because all you post is propaganda and gossip. You try in vain, to blow up news stories and keep topics like, child sexual abuse, on the front page.
Yes, I think you are a sociopath.
You attempted to deceptively tell the world that Catholic churches in MN are closing due to attendance- which you imply had to do with dissatisfaction of Catholicism. Your a cheat and a con artist.
You post a story about a Catholic Priest who's publicly speaking out against the Church, to imply there is widespread chaos in the Church.
You expect me to be happy about that?
Are you that insecure about your choice to leave the Catholic faith? Yup. If you were content with just being a former Catholic, you wouldn't bother trying to bring everyone else down to your level.
CLAY says......

....I get upset!

MICHAEL says....

...I never get upset!

You get upset because you have allowed authoritarian religious leaders to dominate your free will. They effectively turn human beings into sheep. The one at the back follows the one at the front. You all do the very same thing. Religions are the most powerful instruments of social conditioning.

Organized religions operate by eroding your own trust in your own intellect, convincing you to put all your trust into some external entity.

That is why you get frustrated and upset. YOu have lost your own personal control, you do what others tell you to do, and when to do it, and you oblige.

If you are OK with that, then carry on. But no one should ever upset, you because they disagree with you.

We all have choices, some people give up their choices and let others choose for them. Not me, I was there once.
Dust Storm

Minneapolis, MN

#406682 Dec 3, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah thank you.
Because that is what all non Catholics on this board quietly believe but will never say.
'translating the bible is easier today because knowledge has increased'
Basically, what you're saying is:
1. Men like Ignatius and Justin, who sat along side Peter and John, were not smart enough to comprehend the teachings. So that's why they misunderstood the Apostles and thought the Eucharist was to be the actual body and blood.
2. Christ was REALLY waiting for the likes of you guys to be born so you can figure out His true teachings by picking apart Revelation etc.
3. This is why its laughable that many of you call the Catholic Church arrogant.
Eusebius tells us that Peter and Paul, who planted the faith in Antioch, left directions that Ignatius should succeed Evodius as Bishop. We also learn Ignatious held that office for 40 years.

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