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#405711 Nov 29, 2012
continued to GIF
(3) this will suit the connection, and accord with the design of the
apostle. He was addressing those who were suffering persecution. It was
natural, in such a connection, to refer to those who had died in the
faith, and to show, for their encouragement, that though they had been put
to death, yet they still lived to God. He therefore says, that the design
in publishing the gospel to them was, that though they might be judged by
people in the usual manner, and put to death, yet that in respect to their
higher and nobler nature, the spirit, they might live unto God. It was not
uncommon nor unnatural for the apostles, in writing to those who were
suffering persecution, to refer to those who had been removed by death,
and to make their condition and example an argument for fidelity and
perseverance. Compare 1 Thessalonians 4:13; Revelation 14:13.
That they might be judged according to men in the flesh - That is, so far
as people are concerned,(κα ;τὰ ; ἀν θρω ́πο υς kata anthrōpous,) or in respect to
the treatment which they received from people in the flesh, they were
judged and condemned; in respect to God, and the treatment which they
received from him,(κα& #964;ὰ Θεο ̀ν kata Theon,) they would live in spirit.
People judged them severely, and put them to death for their religion; God
gave them life, and saved them. By the one they were condemned in the
flesh - so far as pain, and sorrow, and death could be inflicted on the
body; by the other they were made to live in spirit - to be his, to live
with him. The word "judged" here, I suppose, therefore, to refer to a
sentence passed on them for their religion, consigning them to death for
it. There is a particle in the original - μὲ ν men, "indeed" - which has
not been retained in the common translation, but which is quite important
to the sense: "that they might indeed be judged in the flesh, but live,"
etc. The direct object or design of preaching the gospel to them was not
that they might be condemned and put to death by man, but this was indeed
or in fact one of the results in the way to a higher object.
But live according to God - In respect to God, or so far as he was
concerned. By him they would not be condemned. By him they would be made
to live - to have the true life. The gospel was preached to them in order
that so far as God was concerned, so far as their relation to him was
concerned, so far as he would deal with them, they might live. The word
live here seems to refer to the whole life that was the consequence of
their being brought under the power of the gospel:
#405712 Nov 29, 2012
continued: yes I used several sights off the URL links til I found what I was wanting get across.
(a) that they might have spiritual life imparted to them;
(b) that they might live a life of holiness in this world;
(c) that they might live hereafter in the world to come.
In one respect, and so far as people were concerned, their embracing the
gospel was followed by death; in another respect, and so far as God was
concerned, it was followed by life. The value and permanence of the
latter, as contrasted with the former, seems to have been the thought in
the mind of the apostle in encouraging those to whom he wrote to exercise
patience in their trials, and to show fidelity in the service of their
In the spirit - In their souls, as contrasted with their body. In respect
to that - to the flesh - they were put to death; in respect to their souls
- their higher natures - they were made truly to live. The argument, then,
in this verse is, that in the trials which we endure on account of
religion, we should remember the example of those who have suffered for
it, and should remember why the gospel was preached to them. It was in a
subordinate sense, indeed, that they might glorify God by a martyr's
death; but in a higher sense, that in this world and the next they might
truly live. The flesh might suffer in consequence of their embracing the
gospel that was preached to them, but the soul would live. Animated by
their example, we should be willing to suffer in the flesh, if we may for
ever live with God.
Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
Was the Gospel preached also to them that are dead - This is a most
difficult verse; the best translations I have seen of it are the
"For this indeed was the effect of the preaching of the Gospel to the
dead,(the unconverted Gentiles), that some will be punished as carnal
men; but others,(those converted to Christianity), lead a spiritual life
unto God." - Wakefield.
"For this purpose hath the Gospel been preached even to the dead,(i.e.
the Gentiles), that although they might be condemned, indeed, by men in
the flesh,(their persecutors), yet they might live eternally by God in
the Spirit." - Macknight.
In other words they were dead in their sins and for those who put there
trust and faith in Christ will be redeemed from shilou/grave. In the
second death when Christ destrys them for a final time and they perish the
smoke of their torment goes up forever and they cease to exist. That is
their eternal grave.
Since: Jul 09
#405713 Nov 29, 2012
The Bible says.
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
Do you concur?
#405714 Nov 29, 2012
Glad you spoke with Preston....
This is between you and him...
#405715 Nov 29, 2012
Yes, because of his belief and repentance, I believe Jesus saved him (forgiving his sins) as Jesus had the authority to forgive sins on earth.....
#405716 Nov 29, 2012
So sorry Michael....I don't use a confessional...but you are welcome to use one if you so desire....
#405717 Nov 29, 2012
Sorry, KayMarie, they won't believe you though....
#405718 Nov 29, 2012
And why happens when you follow a different gospel message.....
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel
7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
In which you refuse to believe that you are following a different gospel....
#405719 Nov 29, 2012
It is called being a disciple of Christ...a follower of Christ......
You are the one being dishonest with yourself....
#405720 Nov 29, 2012
Do you know how many times OSAS followers slung that bible verse at me? My heart wants to believe they didn't know it had nothing to do with OSAS. But I'm not so sure. Some of ya don't have a problem with manipulating scripture to win an argument because you think its for the greater good.
The 'greater good' of course would be saving of Catholics from the Catholic Church. Too bad everyone has to lie to accomplish this.
#405721 Nov 29, 2012
TRUTH hurts doesn't it.....lol....
Satan's temptations or attacks.....
4 Skin for skin! Satan replied.A man will give all he has for his own life.
5 But now stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face.
6 The Lord said to Satan,Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.
7 So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head.
9 His wife said to him,Are you still maintaining your integrity? Curse God and die!
10 He replied,You are talking like a foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?
In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.
#405722 Nov 29, 2012
Common on 4GVN...you still don't know what the gospel is besides the good news....
That's Bible 101...
#405723 Nov 29, 2012
Still haven't figured it out yet, I see...
#405724 Nov 29, 2012
Sorry.....this makes no sense...
What is baptism for??? Forgiveness of sins...wash away your sins....
So if you are baptized as an infant...what sins have you committed???? Plus, you MUST CONFESS with YOUR MOUTH...how can an infant do that.....
So as you grow and get older and SIN, what happens with these sins???? You retain them and still in a lost state....outside of Christ.....
And, you are IN NEED to be BAPTIZED for the forgiveness of your sins.....BURIED WITH HIM IN BAPTISM....INTO HIS DEATH, BURIAL, AND RESURRECTION....does an infant have the knowledge of how IMPORTANT this ACTION is????
Eaton Park, FL
#405725 Nov 29, 2012
I may not understand the morality behind it, but if the Bible is unerring, then I must agree.
Now I just have to rationalize the (supposed) immorality of slavery and why neither Father nor Son spoke out against it.
I can do that.
#405726 Nov 29, 2012
Think about it....if we have NOT crucified the flesh, we are not of Christ.
#405727 Nov 29, 2012
Praise the Lord!!!
We are so glad that you are feeling better, Hermi...
You will still be in our prayers....
#405728 Nov 29, 2012
When have I lied Clay...show me.
Eaton Park, FL
#405729 Nov 29, 2012
The Catholic Church is most certainly dictated my popular opinion or cultural influence.
Admittedly, it does so slowly and with caution.
Over 50,000 "carefully investigated" annulments in the USA alone. That's a 1000% change from just 50 years ago.
Vatican 2 was a huge change. Heck, even Protestants can be saved. That's a 100% change in former stated doctrine (Papal Bulls and Vatican Counsels).
Have the rituals and sacraments remained unchanged? There have certainly been fundamental changes in the Mass. Lay women can now deliver and administer the Eucharist!
You shouldn't fret too much about the changes. But denial is absurd.
#405730 Nov 29, 2012
You're reading the bible thru the eyes of Protestantism. Read it thru the eyes of the Catholic Church. You will see its not meant to be a word for word literal translation. In fact, it never was like that until some knuckle heads came along and took our Bible and beat us over the head with it. These people are nomads.
The books that make up the Bible are inspired by God (we believe), using human thought with divine insights . The writers used LANGUAGE AND CULTURE from their own time period to paint a picture of God for the reader. Slavery is mentioned at times, simply because people around that time had slaves. The writer mentioned slaves because that was the normal speak.
God chose to let humanity figure out that slavery was wrong. In His eyes, we're all slaves anyway. Slaves to sin.
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