Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 574,161
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
Clay

Saint Paul, MN

#405258 Nov 27, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>Clay, do you EVER address the topic, and answer a question or must you always divert and respond with an off topic comment. This does not allow for beneficial dialog. If you will address the topic, I will try to have a sensible dialog with you. If not it is not possible.
I responded 5 times head on. This one, I strayed off topic (sort of).
Look, I understand no matter what, you'll never agree with any Catholic on our beliefs. Your set in your interpretations and that's that.
I sincerely hope your correct for teaching the way you do. But I'm going to point out that its new, and not what the Apostles taught.
Its not just Baptism either, you folks changed many teachings that have been there from day one. Like the Eucharist, sola fide, sola scripture.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#405259 Nov 27, 2012
4GVN wrote:
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Jesus is the One in Charge. If He chooses to make exceotions to His own rule, who are we to question that.
.We know the rule, and should be following it.
.
Rob
Can the 'Righteous Judge' change the rules He extablished? Can a R.J. say to one who was not baptized "enter in to your salvation and yet cast another into eternal darkness for the SAME OFFENSE? Not the God I know. There is only one requirement for salvation and that is to recieve JESUS as our Saviour. ALL ELSE is done not to gain salvation and the new birth, but because the new birth has occured.
Going against the Word of God...

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#405260 Nov 27, 2012
who="Clay"
Why wasn't said person Baptized? Did they read the gospels and determined for themselves what Christ requires?
There are lots of variables to how people come to know Christ. All Catholics are saying is that God is the ultimate judge. And He will determine if a person gets saved. From scripture, we can see the significance of water baptism.
Water itself is pure; gives life to humans and is a necessary ingredient for all life.
I don't get the impression from the gospels that water is just a cute symbol they used to Baptize.

*********

I believe we are to be baptized, and I believe that, so don't misunderstand me. And if one's heart is right, they won't be slow about it. But we are saved through faith in Christ's sacrificial offering of His blood. Scripture declares that "life is IN THE BLOOD", not in water. One can be baptized, but if they do not truly believe in His sacrifice, they are yet unsaved.

God's gifts/promises are sure. Thus if one truly believes this, they ARE saved. God offers the gift. If one accepts the gift of salvation that He gives, there is no doubt as to whether He accepts them.

KayMarie
Clay

Saint Paul, MN

#405261 Nov 27, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
"ouch!"
What does this mean?
Please explain.
BTW - if I am right, then it means you are wrong. Which, by the way you responded above, you did not acknowledge that part of the discussion.
True. I would be wrong if you're right. But so would the previous 2,000 yrs of Christianity.
So whenever the 'new age' belief concept came to be... Is anyones guest.
My guess is, if Christ wanted us to be 'new age' spiritual people (whatever that may be) then that is what would have been established. Because the resurrected Christ didn't cease guiding His Apostles and His Church. Or did He?
Did Jesus let everyone get it all wrong?

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#405262 Nov 27, 2012
4GVN wrote:
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
.
Jesus is the One in Charge. If He chooses to make exceotions to His own rule, who are we to question that.
.We know the rule, and should be following it.
.
Rob
Can the 'Righteous Judge' change the rules He extablished? Can a R.J. say to one who was not baptized "enter in to your salvation and yet cast another into eternal darkness for the SAME OFFENSE? Not the God I know. There is only one requirement for salvation and that is to recieve JESUS as our Saviour. ALL ELSE is done not to gain salvation and the new birth, but because the new birth has occured.

Truth:
Going against the Word of God...

**********

In no way is this going against the Word of God. We are born again by grace through our faith. We don't earn brownie points by works...but we do them for the sake of love for the One Who showed such love for us.

KayMarie
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#405263 Nov 27, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>Does God have more than ONE plan of salvation?
Don't know!! Ask HIM!!!
Clay

Saint Paul, MN

#405264 Nov 27, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither am I, since I am not a so-called "Christian".
<quoted text>
Yes you do. You chose to believe this when you became a Catholic.
Pls remember, that the interpretation you abide by, was of man's, thus, interpretation was involved, because "God" never wrote anything down personally.
Why are you being dishonest with yourself?
<quoted text>
Nah - I'm just trying to show the forum that what is taught is differently than what Jesus taught.
Why don't you believe Jesus?
I don't believe Scripture interpretations from the Catholic Church are from men. I believe they come from the Holy Spirit.
At some point... Someone's interpretations needed to come from God. Right?

"why don't you believe Jesus"? Huh?

Show me what Jesus wrote down, then I'll tell you if I believe Him.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#405265 Nov 27, 2012
who="Anthony MN"
What is this evidence? Who decides what is acceptable evidence? What if I think it's evidence and you don't?
If a 'saved' person doesn't produce the evidence you find acceptable, are they really 'saved'?
In the Catholic scenario the 'horse' is baptism. "Baptism which is the beginning of new life; Confirmation which is its strengthening; and the Eucharist which nourishes the disciple with Christ's Body and Blood for his transformation in Christ."
For the Catholic "The fruit of Baptism, or baptismal grace, is a rich reality that includes forgiveness of original sin and all personal sins, birth into the new life by which man becomes an adoptive son of the Father, a member of Christ and a temple of the Holy Spirit. By this very fact the person baptized is incorporated into the Church, the Body of Christ, and made a sharer in the priesthood of Christ."
and
"Baptism imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual sign, the character, which consecrates the baptized person for Christian worship."

**********

In short, this post declares that one is saved by rituals they and/or others perform.

We believe that Jesus Himself is birthed into a believing heart. Without that 'new birth', one is just performing rituals.

Believe on the LORD JESUS CHRIST, and you SHALL be saved.

KayMarie
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#405266 Nov 27, 2012
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
We live in a sin sick world because of UNBELIEF....
BALONEY!

Religious people commit as much sin as non religious people.

Japan is mostly non religious yet their crime rates over the past 50 years are much lower per capita than america.

76% of americans claim to be christians, yet american jails/prisons are busting at the seams with christians.

I am a non believer never did drugs, never abused alcohol (like some christians on here have done) never been arrested help anyone in need. Thats more than many christians I know.

Truth

Leesburg, VA

#405267 Nov 27, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Incorrect supposition.
We live in this world, because we were born and have not died.
Placing qualifiers on why you live, just shows how much Self is a Major part and role in it.
Learn it, live it, love it. It's the only one you have.
Hebrews 3:18-19

18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed?

19 [[[[[So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.]]]]]

Unbelief = still in sin

Still in sin = separated from God

Separated from God = will never enter his rest (unable to enter the Kingdom of God)

Love of this world....

There are pleasures, riches, and honors of this world.....

It swells so much in the sinnerís eye that he considers eternal goals of no consequence and unworthy of his pursuit of righteousness.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#405268 Nov 27, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
In the Catholic scenario the 'horse' is baptism. "Baptism which is the beginning of new life; Confirmation which is its strengthening; and the Eucharist which nourishes the disciple with Christ's Body and Blood for his transformation in Christ."
Since you listed these Sacraments in the wrong order, what comes after the "strengthening", if Confirmation is the third stage?

per your interpretation:

Baptism = beginning a new life [i.e. "born again"]
Eucharist = the nourishing
Confirmation = the strengthening

And then what?

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#405269 Nov 27, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you continue to think you know the mind of "God"?
Is this what your husband teaches you to do?
For one who "falls short of God" - you sure like to put him in your back pocket often.
~~~

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

___

Jesus is not in my billfold ....He is in my heart.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and -->in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and -->shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 For --->with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith,

-->Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#405270 Nov 27, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>Does God have more than ONE plan of salvation?
Lets see if you will humble yourself long enough to understand/learn what HOJO has posted here.....
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#405271 Nov 27, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
BALONEY!
Religious people commit as much sin as non religious people.
Japan is mostly non religious yet their crime rates over the past 50 years are much lower per capita than america.
76% of americans claim to be christians, yet american jails/prisons are busting at the seams with christians.
I am a non believer never did drugs, never abused alcohol (like some christians on here have done) never been arrested help anyone in need. Thats more than many christians I know.
Whether you want to believe it or not, Michael, you have sin in your life of some kind....

There was NO ONE perfect except for Jesus....
Clay

Saint Paul, MN

#405272 Nov 27, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Since you listed these Sacraments in the wrong order, what comes after the "strengthening", if Confirmation is the third stage?
per your interpretation:
Baptism = beginning a new life [i.e. "born again"]
Eucharist = the nourishing
Confirmation = the strengthening
And then what?
Holy Matrimony or Holy Orders.

Holy Matrimony if we want to join with someone of the opposite sex, and bring life into this world.

Holy Orders if we feel called by God to commit to Priesthood etc.

Its hard to understand for non Catholics.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#405273 Nov 27, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
"ouch!"
What does this mean?
Please explain.
BTW - if I am right, then it means you are wrong. Which, by the way you responded above, you did not acknowledge that part of the discussion.
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
True. I would be wrong if you're right. But so would the previous 2,000 yrs of Christianity.
Correct.

BTW - you didn't explain what "ouch" means in the way you expressed it.

Is there a reason why you avoided answering?
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
So whenever the 'new age' belief concept came to be... Is anyones guest.
Well before Christianity came on the block.
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
My guess is, if Christ wanted us to be 'new age' spiritual people (whatever that may be) then that is what would have been established.

It was, remember, you don't believe many of what Jesus taught, and chose to accept certain men's interpretation.
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Because the resurrected Christ didn't cease guiding His Apostles and His Church. Or did He?
After Jesus died, men took over, and Jesus didn't guide anyone.

Remember, once someone dies, they transform into a spiritual entity, thus 'guiding' anyone, is only based upon upon a thought pattern an individual creates within their mind.

In fact, men guided what you call the RCC, not Jesus.
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Did Jesus let everyone get it all wrong?
No men did.
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#405274 Nov 27, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
No parent, teacher or Priest can tamper with your free will. If they dragged you to the Church to get Confirmed, and forced you to the front....so what? Either you want it or you don't. You didn't, so here you are 40 yr later. You won. Your parents didn't get what they wanted.


Don't forget Clay, its only by CHANCE you were born into a catholic family, same as most other catholics on this forum. God didn't pick your dads seed because you were special, no more than he picks a jew or muslim.

Its all luck of the draw. Every religion has their own books of belief that teaches them they are right and you are not.

If your belief had a smoking gun of truth everyone would be catholic. You only cling to your belief because that is all you were taught.

Today 10% of americans are former catholics. Almost 20% of americans are now non religious and growing rapidly.

A major downsizing will be coming within your church within a very few years. Today across america many old churches are closing and consolidating with others. Your church will be around for a long time but much smaller than it is today as more elightened young people opt out.

Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#405275 Nov 27, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
who="Anthony MN"
What is this evidence? Who decides what is acceptable evidence? What if I think it's evidence and you don't?
If a 'saved' person doesn't produce the evidence you find acceptable, are they really 'saved'?
In the Catholic scenario the 'horse' is baptism. "Baptism which is the beginning of new life; Confirmation which is its strengthening; and the Eucharist which nourishes the disciple with Christ's Body and Blood for his transformation in Christ."
For the Catholic "The fruit of Baptism, or baptismal grace, is a rich reality that includes forgiveness of original sin and all personal sins, birth into the new life by which man becomes an adoptive son of the Father, a member of Christ and a temple of the Holy Spirit. By this very fact the person baptized is incorporated into the Church, the Body of Christ, and made a sharer in the priesthood of Christ."
and
"Baptism imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual sign, the character, which consecrates the baptized person for Christian worship."
**********
In short, this post declares that one is saved by rituals they and/or others perform.
We believe that Jesus Himself is birthed into a believing heart. Without that 'new birth', one is just performing rituals.
Believe on the LORD JESUS CHRIST, and you SHALL be saved.
KayMarie
"In short...."

Stirring up trouble again aren't you Kay? No, Catholics don't believe we are saved by any rituals. If you were sincere and not just a disingenuous trouble maker you'd know this. But thanks anyway.
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#405276 Nov 27, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
Jesus died before the two others on the cross...One went with Him to paradise...under grace..
the other is waiting for the judgment of God.
If you ever receive Jesus Christ as you savior then you will have the leadership of the Holy Ghost and you will not be making so many false statement about the Bible..
The Church (under grace) was birth through the travail of Christ...
at Calvary.
It came forth with him from the tomb...at his resurrection...
The church will follow Him at his ascension when He returns for His bride.
Tr Church was set in order in the first Chapter of the acts of the Apostles
and was enabled in the second chapter ...at the day of the feast of first fruits Pentecost.
Your comments are "nothing more" than the "same old" distorted "judgmental and condemning" Protestant bible only "myth" of which you "Confrinting---are the "TRUMPET SECTION-------deciding who (as you put it) has "received Jesus Christ as Savior" and who has not! Your so-called "leadership of the Holy Spirit" is NOT indicative of ANYTHING that you preach, judging the faith of others Christians with your half-truth, anti-catholic-heretical Christianity. All that you "ever do" is list a bunch of bible verses, mis-quote, mis-interpret and (spin) the meaning"and then attack the personal faith and salvation of other Christians,(especially Catholics). When you begin to "put aside" your anti-catholic (pride and ego)--"only then" will you begin to see the TRUTH of the TRUE INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE as it compliments 2000 years of TRUE Apostolic Church History, and find the TRUTH of Jesus Christ and His One True Catholic Church--the Bride of Christ!!!
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#405277 Nov 27, 2012
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Whether you want to believe it or not, Michael, you have sin in your life of some kind....
There was NO ONE perfect except for Jesus....
Truth says......

Whether you want to believe it or not, Michael, you have sin in your life of some kind.

Michael says.......

Can't think of any! Sorry to disappoint you.

What sins have you got? Tell us!

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