Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 665402 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Clay

Denver, CO

#402670 Nov 16, 2012
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Yes, but since I wwrote it, and I am a man, you cannot believe it, so it would not prove anything.
.
You don't "believe men," remember?
.
Or should I not believe that, since you wrote it ...
.
You are VERY confusing ...
.
8-P
Since Jesus never wrote anything down, aren't we relying on the testimony of 'men'?

To take it a step further, aren't we also relying on the authority of the Catholic Church (men) who declared those writings as inspired?
The horror that some these people would face if they understood how the New Testament came to fruition is amusing to think about..

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#402671 Nov 16, 2012
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Shhhh...
.
Don't go pointing *that* out ...
.
He'll never believe you anyway .. that would be "believing men."
.
.You know you can't believe anything he says, for that very reason ...
.
;-)
.
Rob
Exactly.

And yet he (and you) will continue to do so.

Why do you think this text was written? Especially when it supports an "Unknowable Being" higher than the "God" you worship?

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-long.htm...

Why did "God" allow these texts to be found 1500 years later?

Why did "God" not destroy them, "always knowing" that they were in the ground, just waiting and waiting?

Why?

A: Because "God" has no control over this world. People just think "He" does, but their party is spoiled when the truth arises through the fundamental semantics are crushed right before their eyes.

Why do you think "Paul" is more enlightened than Jesus?

Why do you think "Paul" was more enlightened than Timothy?

What Apostles do you think are 'not as enlightened" as "Paul"?
Fr Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#402672 Nov 16, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Of all the subjects we cover on here,'faith alone''once saved always saved' is the one that makes me the most uncomfortable.
Clearly, Protestants are not in agreement.
We know Catholics were taught faith + works.
One side is preaching a false doctrine and leading our children down the wrong path to salvation.
I know the Catholics and whatever Protestants agree with us on this are correct. Its common sense that a person can choose to reject Christ after knowing Him.
I know others are sure that OSAS is correct.
Someone will be held terribly accountable for messing up the will of God.
From what I can tell, faith + works was always taught in Christianity. Eastern Orthodox AND Roman Catholic are in agreement. Both can be traced to the Apostles and we have writings from the earlier Church that teaches how we teach today.
OSAS is believed because some dude read what he wanted to see from sacred scripture. It was NEVER taught!
For OSAS believers, you best hope that dude was an authority on sacred scripture and God wanted to reveal something to you guys that apparently got missed the previous 1800 yrs.
.
Not disagreement as much as slight clarifiication:
.
There are no works which could purchase our salvation, other than the One Sacrifice Jesus made upon the Cross.
.
It was that "work," and no other, which bought our redemption.
.
This is Catholic Teaching.
.
A worak of Penance is meant to express our sorrow for our sins, and to help us to remember not to fall into sin again. Just as John told the Pharisees that they needed to give some sign that they meant to repent, so we too need to express some sign, in part as expression to God, and in part to ourselves.
.
However, there is a sense of "works" that is very important, and that is showing Jesus we love Him, by keeping His commandments.
.
Much of Protestantism (not necessarily every Protestant posting here, mind) has sadly reduced faith in Jesus to a matter of "mental assent," much like believing that the moon is made of rock and dust. In that "assent" to believe, there is supposedly salvation.
.
But the demons believe, and THEY tremble.
.
It is not just believing in Jesus, but in repenting (a "work"), turning from sin (a "work"), putting on the "new man," (a "work,") and proclaiming the Good News, not just with our voices, but in the new way we live "yet another "work.").
.
If we have faith in Jesus, that faith will shine out in what we choose to do, in how we live love of God expressed in Love of Neighbor.
.
But we ought not make a mistake about how this salvation if earned. It is only earned (merited, or however you wish to say it) by Jesus Himself, by what He did for us upon the Cross.
.
He has the coin to pay for our salvation.
.
No matter what coin we think we might have, be it the purest of Gold, it would never be enough to buy the forgiveness for the mildest of sin against God.
.
That forgiveness had to come at God's beqhest, and could not, through anything we might do.
.
All parody of Catholic faith misses this point. It is the Teaching of the Church that Jesus' Death and Resurrection are the most important moments (Moment?) in all of history. It explodes, from the beginning of Time to its End, like a Shout, proclaiming "Jesus Christ is Lord!" and buying for us forgiveness of our sins.
.
The rest is just details.
.
Rob
Clay

Denver, CO

#402673 Nov 16, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you think Ephesians was by "Paul" when a majority of biblical schoalrship dispute this?
"Bible scholar Raymond E. Brown asserts that about 80% of critical scholarship judges that Paul did not write Ephesians,"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephesians
Authorship of the Pauline Epistles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_th...
Why do you think "Paul" was more enlightened than Jesus?
Whoever wrote Ephesians is immaterial. There are other books where the author isn't
100% certain, but we still believe it to be inspired by the Holy Spirit. Why?
Why do we think its inspired anyway? The Bible doesn't have a table of contents telling us what books are worthy and what are not.
Fr Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#402674 Nov 16, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly.
And yet he (and you) will continue to do so.
Why do you think this text was written? Especially when it supports an "Unknowable Being" higher than the "God" you worship?
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-long.htm...
Why did "God" allow these texts to be found 1500 years later?
Why did "God" not destroy them, "always knowing" that they were in the ground, just waiting and waiting?
Why?
A: Because "God" has no control over this world. People just think "He" does, but their party is spoiled when the truth arises through the fundamental semantics are crushed right before their eyes.
Why do you think "Paul" is more enlightened than Jesus?
Why do you think "Paul" was more enlightened than Timothy?
What Apostles do you think are 'not as enlightened" as "Paul"?
.
No, I was referring to *you.*
.
At least, I *think* I was ...
.
You *are* the one who keeps asking , "Why do you believe men?" aren't you?
.
Don't bother to answer that.
.
If you say "yes" or if you say "no," I won't be able to believe you, either way.
.
If I did, I would be "believing men," and you clearly don't approve of that.
.
You are terribly confusing, Madam.(I know, you claim to be male, but if that were true, you have stated it should not be believed, so I am only left with the alternative.).
.
How can we believe anything you say, without violating one of your principle tenets, that we should not "believe men."
.
Be careful about how you answer, if you even bother, since you have clearly stated we should not believe you, whatever your answer.
.
Also, ducks.
.
Rob
preston

Athens, OH

#402675 Nov 16, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Of all the subjects we cover on here,'faith alone''once saved always saved' is the one that makes me the most uncomfortable.
Clearly, Protestants are not in agreement.
We know Catholics were taught faith + works.
One side is preaching a false doctrine and leading our children down the wrong path to salvation.
I know the Catholics and whatever Protestants agree with us on this are correct. Its common sense that a person can choose to reject Christ after knowing Him.
I know others are sure that OSAS is correct.
Someone will be held terribly accountable for messing up the will of God.
From what I can tell, faith + works was always taught in Christianity. Eastern Orthodox AND Roman Catholic are in agreement. Both can be traced to the Apostles and we have writings from the earlier Church that teaches how we teach today.
OSAS is believed because some dude read what he wanted to see from sacred scripture. It was NEVER taught!
For OSAS believers, you best hope that dude was an authority on sacred scripture and God wanted to reveal something to you guys that apparently got missed the previous 1800 yrs.
good post and extremly accurate.

this doctrine of OSAS came from Calvin.
calvin also believed that only those who were selected by God before the earth was formed would be saved.

this is from wiki and is NOT true.

There also are many non-Calvinists who also maintain that once a person is saved they can never be lost. This Free Grace or non-traditional Calvinist doctrine is found predominantly in "free will"Baptist theology, but also other Protestant churches of the evangelical tradition.

the Free will Baptists DO NOT believe in osas, and I know this for a fact. my churchs doctrine is very similiar to the FWB and one time, they tried to get me to join their denomination and would accept my credentials and ordain me in their group, but I chose not to leave what I belonged to.

and many people have alot of faith in Spurgeon b ut he uttered these words."Calvinism is the Gospel'

and that is False.
Fr Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#402676 Nov 16, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you think Ephesians was by "Paul" when a majority of biblical schoalrship dispute this?
"Bible scholar Raymond E. Brown asserts that about 80% of critical scholarship judges that Paul did not write Ephesians,"
?
"Raymond Brown?"
.
Seriously?
.
Why do you believe men?
.
Rob

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#402677 Nov 16, 2012
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Yes, but since I wwrote it, and I am a man, you cannot believe it, so it would not prove anything.
.
You don't "believe men," remember?
.
Or should I not believe that, since you wrote it ...
.
You are VERY confusing ...
.
8-P
Make light of it - it shows you are human.

;o)

And I don't think I am confusing at all. In fact, I am trying to unconfuse - and trying to set the stage right.

What are you confused upon? I'll do my best to clarify.
Fr Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#402678 Nov 16, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
?
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-long.htm...
Why did "God" allow these texts to be found 1500 years later?
.
"?
You're kidding, right?
.
What makes you think those texts were "found?"
.
Who says they were?
.
Why do you believe men?
.
Rob
Clay

Denver, CO

#402679 Nov 16, 2012
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Not disagreement as much as slight clarifiication:
.
There are no works which could purchase our salvation, other than the One Sacrifice Jesus made upon the Cross.
.
It was that "work," and no other, which bought our redemption.
.
This is Catholic Teaching.
.
A worak of Penance is meant to express our sorrow for our sins, and to help us to remember not to fall into sin again. Just as John told the Pharisees that they needed to give some sign that they meant to repent, so we too need to express some sign, in part as expression to God, and in part to ourselves.
.
However, there is a sense of "works" that is very important, and that is showing Jesus we love Him, by keeping His commandments.
.
Much of Protestantism (not necessarily every Protestant posting here, mind) has sadly reduced faith in Jesus to a matter of "mental assent," much like believing that the moon is made of rock and dust. In that "assent" to believe, there is supposedly salvation.
.
But the demons believe, and THEY tremble.
.
It is not just believing in Jesus, but in repenting (a "work"), turning from sin (a "work"), putting on the "new man," (a "work,") and proclaiming the Good News, not just with our voices, but in the new way we live "yet another "work.").
.
If we have faith in Jesus, that faith will shine out in what we choose to do, in how we live love of God expressed in Love of Neighbor.
.
But we ought not make a mistake about how this salvation if earned. It is only earned (merited, or however you wish to say it) by Jesus Himself, by what He did for us upon the Cross.
.
He has the coin to pay for our salvation.
.
No matter what coin we think we might have, be it the purest of Gold, it would never be enough to buy the forgiveness for the mildest of sin against God.
.
That forgiveness had to come at God's beqhest, and could not, through anything we might do.
.
All parody of Catholic faith misses this point. It is the Teaching of the Church that Jesus' Death and Resurrection are the most important moments (Moment?) in all of history. It explodes, from the beginning of Time to its End, like a Shout, proclaiming "Jesus Christ is Lord!" and buying for us forgiveness of our sins.
.
The rest is just details.
.
Rob
Powerful stuff. Thank you!

Too bad you're not 'born again' so your damned no matter what you profess. Lol. Sorry (I been told that more than once)
preston

Athens, OH

#402680 Nov 16, 2012
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Not disagreement as much as slight clarifiication:
.
There are no works which could purchase our salvation, other than the One Sacrifice Jesus made upon the Cross.
.
It was that "work," and no other, which bought our redemption.
.
This is Catholic Teaching.
.
A worak of Penance is meant to express our sorrow for our sins, and to help us to remember not to fall into sin again. Just as John told the Pharisees that they needed to give some sign that they meant to repent, so we too need to express some sign, in part as expression to God, and in part to ourselves.
.
However, there is a sense of "works" that is very important, and that is showing Jesus we love Him, by keeping His commandments.
.
Much of Protestantism (not necessarily every Protestant posting here, mind) has sadly reduced faith in Jesus to a matter of "mental assent," much like believing that the moon is made of rock and dust. In that "assent" to believe, there is supposedly salvation.
.
But the demons believe, and THEY tremble.
.
It is not just believing in Jesus, but in repenting (a "work"), turning from sin (a "work"), putting on the "new man," (a "work,") and proclaiming the Good News, not just with our voices, but in the new way we live "yet another "work.").
.
If we have faith in Jesus, that faith will shine out in what we choose to do, in how we live love of God expressed in Love of Neighbor.
.
But we ought not make a mistake about how this salvation if earned. It is only earned (merited, or however you wish to say it) by Jesus Himself, by what He did for us upon the Cross.
.
He has the coin to pay for our salvation.
.
No matter what coin we think we might have, be it the purest of Gold, it would never be enough to buy the forgiveness for the mildest of sin against God.
.
That forgiveness had to come at God's beqhest, and could not, through anything we might do.
.
All parody of Catholic faith misses this point. It is the Teaching of the Church that Jesus' Death and Resurrection are the most important moments (Moment?) in all of history. It explodes, from the beginning of Time to its End, like a Shout, proclaiming "Jesus Christ is Lord!" and buying for us forgiveness of our sins.
.
The rest is just details.
.
Rob
Much of Protestantism (not necessarily every Protestant posting here, mind) has sadly reduced faith in Jesus to a matter of "mental assent.

I am not certain as to what you are referring to concerning "mental assent".

but to those who are Born Again, certainly there is that "Mental" assurance that is given to us by the indwelling of the Spirit of Christ.

there is that Witness tha we receive, and if you dont KNOW(mental) that you have received that assurance, then you havent.there is no if, ands or buts, you are either saved or you are still an unregenerated sinner.

and that is why Protestants protest against the infant baptism among other doctrines that catholicism produces

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#402681 Nov 16, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
How did you even hear about Jesus Christ?
Was it from men?
Certain letters from 'men' YOU accept as truth?
There are other writings from men, you don't accept as truth?
Did you make up your own theology? In which case, if people listen to you, they would be *listening to men* lol. Come on bro.
You realize that within the words you have used above, the key word is "truth".

So let's break down the questions you ask and give you some response to them. Will you do the same in the future for me? We'll have to see, huh?

"How did you even hear about Jesus Christ?"
- my parents sent me to a Catholic School.

"Was it from men?"
- a little bit, yes, but mostly from women [nuns and teachers].

"Certain letters from 'men' YOU accept as truth?"
- I've never said this - but you seem to have concluded with it.
- Anything by men is of men.
- Anything of "God" is not of this world.
- why do you believe men?

"There are other writings from men, you don't accept as truth?"
- They just don't add up, based upon research.
- I've, in the least, took that upon mySelf to understand that which has been written.
- BTW - if you compare the overall story of Jesus, you'll find it is very similar to many other individuals who supposedly lived before he did.

"Did you make up your own theology?"
- Good question. And may be the defining question that sets you apart from others at this point.
- Yes - based upon all the information I've been presented with - which includes texts from all over this world.
- Unfortunately, you haven't been given this choice, yet. Unless you were and then CHOSE to disregard it because other men told you to. Can you see where this is heading?
-

"In which case, if people listen to you, they would be *listening to men* lol. Come on bro."
- People get to read any posts that they choose to - that would be their "Self". If mine are within those selected, I hope they do find some good information that they can expound upon and hopefully understand the help that it was intended to give. Notice I have said "help", as I have no control over anyone or on how they believe, but can open their minds to show the reality of what they believe has unfounded origins.
Fr Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#402682 Nov 16, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Since Jesus never wrote anything down, aren't we relying on the testimony of 'men'?
To take it a step further, aren't we also relying on the authority of the Catholic Church (men) who declared those writings as inspired?
..
Well, of course.
.
NASL and this continual "Why do you believe men" stuff is just too silly to allow for serious contemplattion.
.
ALL scripture was written down by a human hand at some point. I have NEVER heard of anything that was claimed to have been written directly by the Hand of Jesus,,even from the silliest of the non-canonical credulists.
.
The whole "New Age" is like joke about the stock market, in which the hearers failed to get the punch line, and instead ran to invest their money.
.
Most of the folks here won't believe you on the process of determining what is and is not scripture. I haven't been able to figure out if they cannot think it through (that there HAS to be some process of recognition, or process of recognition of the validity of a claim to inspiration of the Holy Spirit as to what texts are canonical), of if they are afraid to examine the notion too closely, because they already know that, somewhere on the line, human beings HAD to say "Gospel of Matthew, yes, Gospel of Thomas, no, etc."
.
Even if we say, "Well, the Holy Spirit told us," we still would have to ask, "When? Where? How? To who was this communicated?"
.
But really, Clay, most of the folks here are Doctors of the Church when compared to folks like Free Mind and New Age Spiritual Leader.
.
It is sort of fun to poke them, like a pinanta, just to see what comes out, but don't risk making it your primary diet.
.
It would not be good for you.
.
Rob

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#402683 Nov 16, 2012
BTW Clay - we've been over this before.

This forum is not about me, nor is it about how I believe, in what I believe, etc.

My posts all play to the title of this thread, showing how it is a false statement.

Why do you want to make it about me?

Is this only way you can feel comfort when speaking about your false religion.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#402684 Nov 16, 2012
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
.
A worak of Penance is meant to express our sorrow for our sins, and to help us to remember not to fall into sin again. Just as John told the Pharisees that they needed to give some sign that they meant to repent, so we too need to express some sign, in part as expression to God, and in part to ourselves.
.
However, there is a sense of "works" that is very important, and that is showing Jesus we love Him, by keeping His commandments.
.
Rob
And still you promote Self.

Why don't you believe this is to be an aspect of the teachings by Jesus?
Fr Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#402685 Nov 16, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Make light of it - it shows you are human.
;o)
And I don't think I am confusing at all. In fact, I am trying to unconfuse - and trying to set the stage right.
What are you confused upon? I'll do my best to clarify.
.
I don't believe you.
.
See? I'm learning!

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#402686 Nov 16, 2012
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Whoever wrote Ephesians is immaterial. There are other books where the author isn't
100% certain, but we still believe it to be inspired by the Holy Spirit. Why?
Why do we think its inspired anyway? The Bible doesn't have a table of contents telling us what books are worthy and what are not.
No, it isn't.

You've placed these teachings above GoThomas (which has nothing but teachings by Jesus). Meaning you think "Paul", a 3rd generation disciple, is more enlightened than Timothy, who was a direct Apostle of Jesus.

Why do you think "Paul" is more enlightened than Jesus?

Why do you limit the HS to inspire only a handful of individuals, namely a 3rd generation disciple and not TImothy, even though Timothy was present at Pentecost?

"Why do we think its inspired anyway? The Bible doesn't have a table of contents telling us what books are worthy and what are not."
- because you chosen to accept the decision by those bishops in 325 CE.
- Why do you think these men were exclusively the only ones inteh world to determine what "God" wanted for people?
- How did they know the mind of "God" in order to choose the correct texts?
Anthony MN

Saint Paul, MN

#402687 Nov 16, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
BTW Clay - we've been over this before.
This forum is not about me, nor is it about how I believe, in what I believe, etc.
My posts all play to the title of this thread, showing how it is a false statement.
Why do you want to make it about me?
Is this only way you can feel comfort when speaking about your false religion.
We agree that the title of this board is false. Why has it taken you so long to figure this out?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#402688 Nov 16, 2012
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
.
No, I was referring to *you.*
.
At least, I *think* I was ...
.
You *are* the one who keeps asking , "Why do you believe men?" aren't you?
.
Don't bother to answer that.
.
If you say "yes" or if you say "no," I won't be able to believe you, either way.
.
If I did, I would be "believing men," and you clearly don't approve of that.
.
You are terribly confusing, Madam.(I know, you claim to be male, but if that were true, you have stated it should not be believed, so I am only left with the alternative.).
.
How can we believe anything you say, without violating one of your principle tenets, that we should not "believe men."
.
Be careful about how you answer, if you even bother, since you have clearly stated we should not believe you, whatever your answer.
.
Also, ducks.
.
Rob
Still striving to change careers?

:o)

Why are you trying to divert this discussion back at me and not answering questions I've posed to you for clarity in your belief?

You Catholics will say that you are here to help, but when posed with questions that directly affect a belief you have, you avoid them.

I'll ask them again, just in case you missed them, when they clearly were there for you to read.

Why did "God" allow these texts to be found 1500 years later?

Why did "God" not destroy them, "always knowing" that they were in the ground, just waiting and waiting? Why?

Why do you think "Paul" is more enlightened than Jesus?

Why do you think "Paul" was more enlightened than Timothy?

What Apostles do you think are 'not as enlightened" as "Paul"?

C'mon padre - you seem to be better than Clay or Anthony or the other Catholics. Give 'em your best shot.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#402689 Nov 16, 2012
"A priest comedian" - now that is something that you don't see very often.

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