Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 693164 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Free Mind

Eaton Park, FL

#402589 Nov 16, 2012
We are told in Revelation 4:5:

"4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God."

"... 7 spirits of God" ????

Doesn't this conflict with the Holy Trinity concept?
preston

Athens, OH

#402590 Nov 16, 2012
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
Preston, you can see a question as an attack if you so choose.
.
I cannot stop you.
.
If you choose for your focus to be on someone else and their splinter, that is also your choice.
.
Were I to reccommend, I would tell anyone to focus on their own relationship with God, and on any plank that is hetting in the way.
.You may aso choose to see that as a plank.
.
I am making NO comment about what anyone else has or has not done. That would be THEIR sin, not mine, and not yours.
.
Do you want to fucus on someone else's sin, or examine your own relationship with God?
.
That is all I am asking you.
.
The choice is your own.
.
Rob
when a person of the caliber of oldjg ATTACKS ME(SEE THOSE TWO WORDS)I certainly have the RIGHT to defend myself against the filthy that he produces on this forum.

I dont have to worry about what you think of my relationship with the Lord, I believe in a"know so" Salvation,

something that catholics know nothing about since they only receive a tap water experience when they are a baby.

so ROB, if that bothers you, let me give you some advice. since I dont need yours.

TAKE A HIKE THEN!!!!
preston

Athens, OH

#402591 Nov 16, 2012
Free Mind wrote:
We are told in Revelation 4:5:
"4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God."
"... 7 spirits of God" ????
Doesn't this conflict with the Holy Trinity concept?
IMO, these are representive of a highly evolved angelic beings and have nothing to do with the trinity as we know it and believe it.

others on here might have a different opine, which is ok. this could be a mystery that we will not comprehend until we make it to Heaven
preston

Athens, OH

#402592 Nov 16, 2012
in another part of the Bible, it states that one spirit goes out to fabricate a lie. this is not God nor the Holy Ghost which can not lie. hope this helps.

BTW, I didnt use "got questions" either.lol
Anthony MN

Saint Paul, MN

#402593 Nov 16, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>If it is really a 'free gift', can there be any strings attached? Any addendums? Any payments? Ir it is a truely 'free gift' it makes no requirements. You do SAY that it is a free gift, but then you add a string of 'buts'...But you must; but you have to; but there is more...... NO BUTS Anthony. Salvation is a FREE GIFT bought with the blood of Jesus....PAID IN FULL.
If the free gift you describe has no strings attached, no addendums, no 'buts', why isn't every human being who ever lived and will ever live automatically saved?

I would ask that you prayerfully consider the word "redeem". You may find that it will help you understand what the Catholic Church teaches.
Anthony MN

Saint Paul, MN

#402594 Nov 16, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>Anthony,Anthony,Anthon y....How many times and how many ways do you want me to say it? Baptism is NOT SALVIFIC. Getting baptized does not save you........Not getting baptized does not 'lost' you. Do I need to say it again?
Christianity is ALL about a RELATIONSHIP....which makes it unlike any other religion in the world. Christianity is GOD reaching down to man. All other religions are about MAN reaching up to God.
Compare it to your relationship with your child. Is it in any way based on what they do....i.e. you didn't do your chores(which I told you to do) so you are out of the family. You are cast out. You are banished forever. If you then being a sinner offer that much grace to your child how much more does He who loves us more than we can even comprehend. One who's ways are above our ways. How much more grace does He afford us?
The bible says baptism saves.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#402595 Nov 16, 2012
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
Preston, you can see a question as an attack if you so choose.
.
I cannot stop you.
.
If you choose for your focus to be on someone else and their splinter, that is also your choice.
.
Were I to reccommend, I would tell anyone to focus on their own relationship with God, and on any plank that is hetting in the way.
.You may aso choose to see that as a plank.
.
I am making NO comment about what anyone else has or has not done. That would be THEIR sin, not mine, and not yours.
.
Do you want to fucus on someone else's sin, or examine your own relationship with God?
.
That is all I am asking you.
.
The choice is your own.
.
Rob
You'll promote Self out of one side of your mouth, but through the other side, you refute it.

Why don't you believe Jesus?
Fr Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#402596 Nov 16, 2012
preston wrote:
<quoted text>when a person of the caliber of oldjg ATTACKS ME(SEE THOSE TWO WORDS)I certainly have the RIGHT to defend myself against the filthy that he produces on this forum.
I dont have to worry about what you think of my relationship with the Lord, I believe in a"know so" Salvation,
something that catholics know nothing about since they only receive a tap water experience when they are a baby.
so ROB, if that bothers you, let me give you some advice. since I dont need yours.
TAKE A HIKE THEN!!!!
.
Okay.
.
Between you and me, I think I would just shrug, and take a "turn the other cheek" approach.
.
But I can see that some folks reject that. It's a very personal choice, to turn the other cheek.
.
I hope your approach works out for you the way you want it to.
.
Peace.
.
Rob
preston

Athens, OH

#402597 Nov 16, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
If the free gift you describe has no strings attached, no addendums, no 'buts', why isn't every human being who ever lived and will ever live automatically saved?
I would ask that you prayerfully consider the word "redeem". You may find that it will help you understand what the Catholic Church teaches.
I said basically the same thing to Chuck, but got no response, hope you get one from him.lol

on this issue your church and many Christians are on the same page, unfortunately, there are millions who are being misled by their leaders

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#402598 Nov 16, 2012
marge wrote:
Robert, a couple verses to think about;
"And now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe."
"For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever."
marge good friend

I can see both are from the Book of Hebrews....Again here Paul addressing the Jews, familiar with their inheritance and traditions....

The first first really fits well into Matt 4:4

The second verse shows the weakness of the law, and its fulfillment of the law in Jesus Christ. But again we have the "appointment" of the Son, which can also be a part of a meditation on Matt 4:4.

As you can see, I am very impressed with Matt 4:4 at this time....
preston

Athens, OH

#402599 Nov 16, 2012
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Okay.
.
Between you and me, I think I would just shrug, and take a "turn the other cheek" approach.
.
But I can see that some folks reject that. It's a very personal choice, to turn the other cheek.
.
I hope your approach works out for you the way you want it to.
.
Peace.
.
Rob
BUT, you are not me and different people take diferent approaches to the likes of filthy people like him

I really dont want to have strife between you and I but I dont take critiquing vey well as you have seen.

so it would behoove you to have positive posts to me, not those that I assume are negative.

one more person that wishes to attack me is ok with me, that makes this forum more interesting for everyone.lol
Fr Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#402600 Nov 16, 2012
(I had a post disappear, so I am trying again. This was a reply to a post by Confrinting, who I think was replying to something from Anthony, who seems to be replying to something from Confrinting about something LTM did or did not say. Whew!

)
confrinting with the word wrote:
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
But only if you belong to the catholic church.
The catholic church is getting credit for your salvation and not Jesus.
who="Anthony MN"wrote
That is false.
~~~
CONFRONTING WRITES..
The trend of every Roman Catholic ON THIS FORUM has been as LTM POSTED
AND THAT INCLUDES YOU...
I don't know what this nonsense is all about, and I'm not about to wade through all the finger-pointing about who said what and who didn't repent, and who took someone else's candy and who didn't speak up about it.
.
So I'm going to just comment on what I see above, keeping in mind that LTM's post may have been edited.
.
The Catholic Church does NOT teach that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church..
.
You WILL no doubt be able to find a statement that "there is no salvation outside of the Church," but that is a DIFFERENT assertion, if you read it carefully.
.
There is no salvation outside the Body of Christ. There is no salvation apart from Christ.
.
A relationship with the Church ("catholic" intentionally omitted) apart from Christ makes no sense. How can one be part of the Church, the Body of Christ, "apart from a relationship with Christ?" (I'm not talking about being on a church registry. That is a different matter. I could write "Alfred E. Neuman" onto the parish rolls, but that would not save him.)

There is also NO relationship with the Catholic Church (or the Roman Catholic Church) apart from a relationship with Jesus Christ as Lord, Savior, and Redeemer. It is impossible. One could be on the rolls apart from a relationship with Christ, but that would not mean that someone is truly part of the Church.
.
As for whether the Catholic Church (or tne Roman Catholic Church) teaches that there is no one saved who is not Catholic, I think I will mostly try letting "Lumen Gentium" speak for itself:
.
"15. The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter.(14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour.(15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities."
.
(My own comment: If the Catholic Church sees herself as "linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian" and "who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal," who moreover "lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour," how can it be said that we claim those who are not Catholic cannot be saved?)
.
If anyone on this forum has stated otherwise, Catholic or non-Catholic, they have misstated the Teaching of the Church, either through n honest error, or intentional distortion of Church Teaching.
.
Honest error and misunderstanding will be easily forgiven, I think, although we should all be diligent in seeking to know the truth.
.
Intentional distortion of truth is another matter.
.
Risk that at your own peril.
.
I will not be responsible for any of you who do that.
.
Rob
Pad

Fishers, IN

#402601 Nov 16, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
There are many paths through this world of sin,
But there’s only one I shall travel in;
’Tis the old Cross Road, or the way called “Straight”—
There is just one way to the pearly gate.
Refrain:
There is just one way to the pearly gate,
To the crown of life and the friends who wait;
’Tis the old Cross Road, or the way called “Straight”—
There is just one way to the pearly gate.
There are some who sneer at the old Cross Road,
At the pearly gate and the soul’s abode;
Yet I mind them not, but, with happy song
And assurance sweet, still I press along.
Refrain:
There is just one way to the pearly gate,
To the crown of life and the friends who wait;
’Tis the old Cross Road, or the way called “Straight”—
There is just one way to the pearly gate.
Others risk their souls on some new-made way,
Thinking they will come to the gate some day;
Oh, may they find out, ere their lives are done,
That the old Cross Road is the only one.
Refrain:
There is just one way to the pearly gate,
To the crown of life and the friends who wait;
’Tis the old Cross Road, or the way called “Straight”—
There is just one way to the pearly gate.
Perfect song or hymn for the truth of Christ being our only source of salvation,no institution,or any human effort outside of the Incarnate Christ.
Fr Robert Dye

Tulsa, OK

#402602 Nov 16, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
You'll promote Self out of one side of your mouth, but through the other side, you refute it.
Why don't you believe Jesus?
Hmm.
.
Which saying of Jesus are you citing? Please be specific,, so I will understand what you mean.
.
Rob
Pad

Fishers, IN

#402603 Nov 16, 2012
preston wrote:
<quoted text>since the conversation was about billy graham and his false doctrine(one that you dont beleive in either), why did you feel the need to interject your self in the conversation with a lie about him?
and since I have shingles, a illness that many Americans also have or had, why did you feel it necesaary to bering up my "ailments" since LTM among others on here have had them and NOT ONE peson has brought that up against her.
YET YOU AMONG SOME OF THE OTHER SLIME ON HERE HAVE BROUGHT IT UP AGAINST ME.
I know why you said it and you know that I know. liars like you are easy to figure out, and all of the negs given to me,will not change the fact.
the other two problems have been taken care, thanks to Gods mercy on me.and a few nights ago, my friend (the same preacher that anointed me for my back and legs)came by and said that the Lord had led him to stop and pray for the pain that I have had with these shingles.and He did.
and the PAIN IS AND HAS LESSENED.
he isnt like you and mr/s fraud. he is the genuine Christian.
SO WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS, ATTACK THE CHRISTIAN WHO HAS HAD SOME POOR HEALTH RATHER THAN ADMITTING THAT YOU CAME ON HERE JUST TO START SOME TROUBLE CONCERNING THE FALSE TEACHER billy graham, WHO WILL ANSWER TO GOD ABOUT HIS FILTHY REMARKS ABOUT THE JEWISH PEOPLE
preston, you alienate everyone on this forum,not that we are a special bunch who can't take criticism.But you are to a fault,as soon as someone disagrees with you,either you call them a liar,or some other choiced name.Actually I do not have a clue as to Billy Graham's so called blunder with the Jewish people.

It is terrible that we all have to suffer on this earth,but we do not wish ill on you or anyone else,I do not personally,so quite the garbage of more stupid accusations.It seems you rely strongly on human opinion,even though you claim you are self sufficient,and a beacon of truth.I would think that being a pastor and dealing with many personalities you have learned not to succumb to criticism,but to be made stronger by it!
preston

Athens, OH

#402604 Nov 16, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible says baptism saves.
there is MORE to that verse than just those few words.

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

and how do you get that answer, by repenting of your sins and being Born Again.

then and only then do you GET that answer. and that is why we who are Saved believe in a "know so" Salvation.

1 Peter 3:15
King James Version (KJV)

15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an {{answer }}}to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

see that last part of this verse, you can answer because you know the hope that is in you(SALVATION).

Go and get Baptised without being Saved and you have no hope in you, it is just getting wet(I know that you dont like to read that, but it is the truth).

and on this doctrine, Hank and I go our seperate ways, but he will not curse me nor I to him, just as Chuck and I look at osas differently yet Hank and I(along with catholic doctrine) agree completely on that doctrine.
Anthony MN

Saint Paul, MN

#402605 Nov 16, 2012
preston wrote:
<quoted text>I said basically the same thing to Chuck, but got no response, hope you get one from him.lol
on this issue your church and many Christians are on the same page, unfortunately, there are millions who are being misled by their leaders
Agreed.
preston

Athens, OH

#402606 Nov 16, 2012
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>preston, you alienate everyone on this forum,not that we are a special bunch who can't take criticism.But you are to a fault,as soon as someone disagrees with you,either you call them a liar,or some other choiced name.Actually I do not have a clue as to Billy Graham's so called blunder with the Jewish people.
It is terrible that we all have to suffer on this earth,but we do not wish ill on you or anyone else,I do not personally,so quite the garbage of more stupid accusations.It seems you rely strongly on human opinion,even though you claim you are self sufficient,and a beacon of truth.I would think that being a pastor and dealing with many personalities you have learned not to succumb to criticism,but to be made stronger by it!
PAD. I dont care what you or anyone else thinks of me, I always speak the Truth and I dont answeer to you about that.

the ONLY reason why you brought up billy graham was to try and make me look like the Bad guy.

and like satan, you reached down in your bag of dirty tricks and produced a lie about graham.

so go look in the mirror.

john 15:18
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

so if people like you, 4bdn, oldjg, orville, the sda guy, and mr and mrs fraud hate me , it places me in good company, since liars hate Jesus too.

dont post and attack me and you have nothing to worry about me.you are a person that I easily can ignore. but if you tell a lie just to embarrass me,be forewarned that I shall respond.lol
Anthony MN

Saint Paul, MN

#402607 Nov 16, 2012
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
(I had a post disappear, so I am trying again. This was a reply to a post by Confrinting, who I think was replying to something from Anthony, who seems to be replying to something from Confrinting about something LTM did or did not say. Whew!
)<quoted text>
I don't know what this nonsense is all about, and I'm not about to wade through all the finger-pointing about who said what and who didn't repent, and who took someone else's candy and who didn't speak up about it.
.
So I'm going to just comment on what I see above, keeping in mind that LTM's post may have been edited.
.
The Catholic Church does NOT teach that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church..
.
You WILL no doubt be able to find a statement that "there is no salvation outside of the Church," but that is a DIFFERENT assertion, if you read it carefully.
.
There is no salvation outside the Body of Christ. There is no salvation apart from Christ.
.
A relationship with the Church ("catholic" intentionally omitted) apart from Christ makes no sense. How can one be part of the Church, the Body of Christ, "apart from a relationship with Christ?" (I'm not talking about being on a church registry. That is a different matter. I could write "Alfred E. Neuman" onto the parish rolls, but that would not save him.)
There is also NO relationship with the Catholic Church (or the Roman Catholic Church) apart from a relationship with Jesus Christ as Lord, Savior, and Redeemer. It is impossible. One could be on the rolls apart from a relationship with Christ, but that would not mean that someone is truly part of the Church.
.
As for whether the Catholic Church (or tne Roman Catholic Church) teaches that there is no one saved who is not Catholic, I think I will mostly try letting "Lumen Gentium" speak for itself:
.
"15. The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter.(14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour.(15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities."
.
(My own comment: If the Catholic Church sees herself as "linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian" and "who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal," who moreover "lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour," how can it be said that we claim those who are not Catholic cannot be saved?)
.
If anyone on this forum has stated otherwise, Catholic or non-Catholic, they have misstated the Teaching of the Church, either through n honest error, or intentional distortion of Church Teaching.
.
Honest error and misunderstanding will be easily forgiven, I think, although we should all be diligent in seeking to know the truth.
.
Intentional distortion of truth is another matter.
.
Risk that at your own peril.
.
I will not be responsible for any of you who do that.
.
Rob
"If anyone on this forum has stated otherwise, Catholic or non-Catholic, they have misstated the Teaching of the Church, either through n honest error, or intentional distortion of Church Teaching.
.
Honest error and misunderstanding will be easily forgiven, I think, although we should all be diligent in seeking to know the truth.
.
Intentional distortion of truth is another matter.
.
Risk that at your own peril."

Thank you Fr. Dye, this, in a nutshell, is what we've been talking about for 5+ years on this board. Hope you have a blessed Thanksgiving with family and friends.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#402608 Nov 16, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong.
My salvation is my Self.
My Self is what Jesus spoke of.
- Jesus also used "spirit" in the same manner
If "Jesus is your salvation", then why don't you believe in all of what he taught?
NASL

Your salvation is your spirit(in the same manner).

Again, and the last time, this is a selfish spirituality, Gnosticism is selfish in nature.

Your question has been asked and answered by me more than once.

Gnosticism is selfish in nature. Do you think asking the same question over and over will evoke a different response? So I propose your blindness of expecting a different response is the result of being unreasonable...i.e. Your reasoning is not logical. This makes all of your "free will", and conscience issues invalid in some way....
(This makes Gnosticism invalid in some way....)

This is called a syllogism of logic.

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