Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 683628 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#396974 Oct 17, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you believe less than six of the Original Apostles and not all 13?
I never said I did....
Then you aren't a "Christian" - because that specific label applies to those who only believe in what is written in the Bible.

If true, then everything I had stated up and to this post, I end with - welcome to my world - a world without the confines of religious bigotry or hatred.
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you think "Paul" was more enlightened than Jesus, even when he himself stated that some of his letters were forged? I ask because the many Pauline books in the Bible, outnumber the teachings of Jesus greatly.
I don't think Paul was "more" enlightened. Paul was an evangelist in the Roman Empire. I suspect there are more of his writings are around because he had a long career in the Roman Empires major trading areas....
If not, then why is there so many of his letters in the Bible, and very few texts/teachings attributed to Jesus?
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you honestly state that men wrote the Bible, using an ideology that they created within their own minds?
Men used pen and ink to write the Bible, now they sometimes use electrons....The other part of the question I don't understand....
I can see you stopped short of saying "as dictated (or something similar) by "God", and veered a little off-course - the men who wrote the Bible did not use 'electrons'.

In other words, you don't beleive the Bible is the word of "God".

Neither do I. We do agree on this point.
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you honestly say the men changed teh Bible to fit their own theology?
I think men try to alter the meaning of the Bible, and the writings contained therein....
"Try"?

No, they succeeded.
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you honestly say that Mark 16:9-20 was added later?
I know nothing about this....
I'm actually surprised by your response.

As intellectual as your responses have been, I would've thought you did.

It is a good lesson on "how the Bible was changed".

Thanks for responding.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#396975 Oct 17, 2012
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
New American Bible (Catholic Bible)
Luke 1:28, "And coming to her, he said,“Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.”
Here are 12 additional translations of the Bible. NOT ONE....NOT ONE says full of anything in Luke 1:28.
KJV - Luk 1:28 - And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail,[thou that art] highly favoured, the Lord [is] with thee: blessed [art] thou among women.
NKJV - Luk 1:28 - And having come in, the angel said to her, "Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!"*
NLT - Luk 1:28 - Gabriel appeared to her and said, "Greetings, favored woman! The Lord is with you!*"
NIV - Luk 1:28 - The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
ESV - Luk 1:28 - And he came to her and said, "Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!"*
NASB - Luk 1:28 - And coming in, he said to her, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord *is with you."
RSV - Luk 1:28 - And he came to her and said, "Hail, O favored one, the Lord is with you!"
ASV - Luk 1:28 - And he came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord [is] with thee.
YLT - Luk 1:28 - And the messenger having come in unto her, said,`Hail, favoured one, the Lord [is] with thee; blessed [art] thou among women;'
(....shortened for response)
The Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible is the ONLY version of the Bible that contains the word "grace" in Luke 1:28. Actually this is probably the worst translation of any Bible ever printed. This entire Bible has been translated from the Latin Vulgate and not from the Greek. You Catholics are pathetic. Write your own Bible and call it truth. You are full of something but it is not GRACE.
Luke 1:28, "And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women."
...good friend

By the way I did find "full of grace" in the Aramaic Bible....

But here is a lengthy pro and con of the issue:

...from the bellarmine forum Question 69...What is the Greek..."full of grace"

"Whereas the Douay-Rheims had “hail, full of grace,” the KJV, which was modeled after the Douay-Rheims but came eight years after the first Douay translation, changed the words to “hail, highly favored one,” to eliminate even the implication that Mary was immaculately conceived. The ASV, RSV, NIV, and even some Catholic Bibles whose translators may have been influenced by the Protestants, such as the New American Bible and New Jerusalem Bible, followed suit. Although most of the revision was based on the wholesale Protestant rejection of Marian doctrine, some of it was due to the Protestant concept of grace which sees it as being an extrinsic and forensic event, which is opposed to the Catholic concept which sees grace as an infused and intrinsic state of being. As such, the Protestants could not conceive of Mary being infused with grace at conception. Conversely, the Vulgate translates Luke 1:28’s kecaritwmenh as “gratia plena”(“full of grace”) denoting an intrinsic quality of grace in Mary, what Catholic theology knows as “the quality of the soul...."

"The Greek of Luke 1:28 is kecaritwmevnh, which is transliterated kecharitomene. It is a Greek perfect, passive, participle, literally meaning “having been graced,” which is from the active indicative verb, caritow, which means “to grace, to favor, to exalt.” "

"To be less dramatic and informative, however, the Greek could have easily used a simple noun to address Mary, but Luke uses this complex verb (perfect, passive, participle) and his choice to do so may be to get the most out of the verb as possible when presenting it as a title. The perfect tense denotes that:

(1) the state of grace began in the past;

(2) that it is a completed and accomplished action;

(3) its effects continue in the present;

(4) that it is a title of grace received from an outside entity,

…all of which can be applied to Mary’s Immaculate Conception."
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#396976 Oct 17, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you believe less than six of the Original Apostles and not all 13?
I never said I did....
Why do you think "Paul" was more enlightened than Jesus, even when he himself stated that some of his letters were forged? I ask because the many Pauline books in the Bible, outnumber the teachings of Jesus greatly.
I don't think Paul was "more" enlightened. Paul was an evangelist in the Roman Empire. I suspect there are more of his writings are around because he had a long career in the Roman Empires major trading areas....
Can you honestly state that men wrote the Bible, using an ideology that they created within their own minds?
Men used pen and ink to write the Bible, now they sometimes use electrons....The other part of the question I don't understand....
Can you honestly say the men changed teh Bible to fit their own theology?
I think men try to alter the meaning of the Bible, and the writings contained therein....
Can you honestly say that Mark 16:9-20 was added later?
I know nothing about this....
YOUR QUOTE, "Can you honestly say the men changed teh Bible to fit their own theology?" END QUOTE.

Yes, Jerome did when he translated the Greek Bible into the Latin Vulgate. Ultimately when Rome translated the Latin Vulgate into English another distortion took place. We are waiting for another translation to occur and Rome can change the Bible to fit the priests who molested and raped little boys. In reality, the pope knew from the beginning that child rape and homosexuality was out of control in the Roman Catholic church. Yet he never did anything about it. He should be in prison for covering up so many crimes against humanity.
Disciple

San Diego, CA

#396977 Oct 17, 2012
MICHAEL wrote:
<quoted text>
disciple says.......Anything outside of Christianity is from the devil.
Why does a large country such as JAPAN which is mostly atheist, shinto, budhist, have ONE of the lowest crime rates per capita in the entire world. Safe modern country.
America a God fearing country,(but numbers are dropping!) is riddled with illegal drug abuse in every city, legal abortions, rampant alcohol abuse, sexual abuse, murders, rapes, schizophrenic people, and physco's.
and you say, God bless america!(lol)
Lol back at you if you believe what you just posted.
Japan is no better than the US....I've worked there.
It sounds like liberal talk. No substance!
Free Mind

Eaton Park, FL

#396978 Oct 17, 2012
MICHAEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Not to offend anyone, but that is my take.
If God is the creator of all and created all equal, why would the "holy spirit" just hang around and help out christians?
Why do catholics continue to break god up into 3 distinct parts. Why even call him/her the holy spirit. Why not just say GOD.
Why not go back to calling him the Holy Ghost?
Free Mind

Eaton Park, FL

#396979 Oct 17, 2012
Disciple wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol back at you if you believe what you just posted.
Japan is no better than the US....I've worked there.
It sounds like liberal talk. No substance!
You didn't address the specifics (such as crime rate) he used as evidence. Do you dispute his evidence? If so, how?

Everyone on Topix lived anywhere they say. Who cares because its usually BS. What makes you think Japan has a crime rate comparable to the USA?

You sound like a typical liberal, making up your own facts.
Disciple

San Diego, CA

#396980 Oct 17, 2012
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Are all so-called "Christians" this hateful? And have a need to lie about others?
And you think you are a "Christian"?
I thnk not.
If you want comfort go to Obama.
If you want the Truth, turn to God.
You work for the enemy...Satan that is.
Luke 12:51
guest

United States

#396981 Oct 17, 2012
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Well, no, that's not quite it, either.
.
Any time you include the word "Roman" with the title, it restricts it to the Roman Rite, which is merely one of the rites within the Catholic Church. None of thse are part of the Roman rite, but they are in union with the Roman rite, and together compse the Catholic church.
.
Then there is the argument I think you are referring to, which sees other ecclesial communities, such as the Baptists, Lutherans, and the Orthodox, as all part of the Church, some "churches" in their own right (spelling double-checked) and some not.
.
The wording of the thread title (Completely bizarre) and the very poorly written article which seems to have started it just add to the confusion.
.
The correct way for what you wanted to say (I think) would be "The Catholic Church sees itself as the 'only true Church.' Correct?"
.
Not really so much to do with Vatican II in the phrasing, but the mindset of V2 would figure in the answer.
.
Another part of the problem comes with taking papal statements from hundreds of years before the Reformation, and trying to apply them to that, forever and always.
.
A response to a heresy, clearly and correctly seen as heresy, is not the same as a response to a once-perceived rebellion which is later (perhaps much more correctly) seen as an attempt at reform and renewal.
.
The Protestand Reform/Rebellion is not the only reform movement which ever rocked the Church.
.
Just the one that did the most fracturing.
.
Keep in mind that God can accomplish any damned thing He wants, with whatever damned jackass He chooses.
.
And He only has jackasses to choose from, so that's what He uses.
.
Rob
-
-
Robert Dye - admitting that Catholic Church is composed of jackasses. who'd o' thunk?

God can accomplish anything he wants, and yes, we are all imperfect - so he DOES use imperfect people - but I do believe that God stops short of using jackasses to accomplish his will. Especially if you consider the biggest jackass of all - Satan himself - I don't think God is using Satan to accomplish his will.
-
Your logic defies explanation, Rob Dye! I guess we can say, "your logic defies LOGIC!" yep. turns it on its head, actually.

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#396982 Oct 17, 2012
preston wrote:
<quoted text>first and only first,
that saying is a Salutation as I have said many times but catholics are never in a learning mode.
the word "grace"means unmerited favor and she received that as being chosen to be a surrogate mother of Jesus.
so get you a concordance and see how many times the word "grace" is used and found.
Romans 5:1-2 (King James Version) "1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2By whom also we have access by faith into this "grace "wherein we stand.
James Ryle has suggested "Grace is the empowering Presence of God enabling you to be who He created you to be, and to do what He has called you to do." Alternatively Bill Gothard has suggested "Grace gives us the desire and the power that God gives us to do his will."[3] Both of these definitions make good sense of the word grace throughout the Bible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_grace
Greetings preston

How are you?

I guess the point here is "grace"

To be honest I tend to follow more along the thinking of James Ryle, whom you quoted, because it is by God's Grace that we exist, because He is the Creator....

And there is something intrinsic in the spiritual virtue of faith, which makes one justified, and I agree with Romans 5:1,2
Disciple

San Diego, CA

#396983 Oct 17, 2012
Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
You didn't address the specifics (such as crime rate) he used as evidence. Do you dispute his evidence? If so, how?
Everyone on Topix lived anywhere they say. Who cares because its usually BS. What makes you think Japan has a crime rate comparable to the USA?
You sound like a typical liberal, making up your own facts.
Who cares more or less. I argue that the crime is there in both.
I'm disputing his words (not taken as evidence)
If you want to take that route then Saudi's crime is lower than both put together. Now you are going to tell me that because of that Saudi is a normal crime free good society?
Crime is higher where God's given rights are enforced mainly liberty(not to be confused with liberalism....you)

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#396984 Oct 17, 2012
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Honest? You? Honest according to Rome. Honest according to Jesus Christ and the Bible? No way.
Yes, you have an agenda. You are lost in the perverted teachings of Rome and satan has recruited you as his helper to gather additional idiots for eternal death in his dark hole.
Go away. We children of the light are wise to your phony hell bound teachings.
OldJG

John 8:6

"If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

I John 4:8

"He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

Jesus died for sinners. Jesus loves sinners....He never turned anyone away....
MICHAEL

Canada

#396985 Oct 17, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
-
-
<quoted text>
-
-
For one who keeps arguing "rules of logic" Catholics certainly do bend the rules depending on the situation, don't be, re-traumatizing them by minimizing the victim's pain. She's a very intelligent and articulate lady. And she gets it right the first time - unlike the Catholic hierarchy, who can't seem to get it right at all.
-
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/video/ash...
-
Where's the logic in the Catholic church's refusal to acknowledge their wrongdoing? Where's the logic in the cover-up for years and years? WHY THE COVER UP? Is it even MORE WIDESPREAD than what has played out in the media?
-
The Catholic church - suspends logic - children suffer. for centuries.
-
The erroneous belief that "the gates of hell will not prevail" against the RCC - does not give your church the right to do whatever it wants or to abuse anyone it sees fit. But that is exactly what has happened ... completely suspending any semblance of logic!
If the church's refusal to address it's problems looks evil and wicked. It's probably because it IS EVIL AND WICKED to conspire to cover this up - and yet you call it the "truth".
-
If you would argue for the church by the "rules of logic" you can't pretend that all the evil atrocities down through the centuries is somehow O.K. as a result of Peter's so-called "authority" and man's imperfection. Peter would have never given authority to his successors to do the things the church has done. Neither would Christ and therefore, you have completely suspended all logic in attempting to argue logic.
...The only reason the church is NOW addressing the issue is because the number of cases worldwide became so overwhelming that they couldn't cover them up or make excuses for them anymore.

http://www.richardsipe.com/patrick_wall/execu...

Do as we say, not as we do.
MICHAEL

Canada

#396986 Oct 17, 2012
Free Mind wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not go back to calling him the Holy Ghost?
Kids are scared of Ghosts!! unless its Casper.
MICHAEL

Canada

#396987 Oct 17, 2012
Disciple wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol back at you if you believe what you just posted.
Japan is no better than the US....I've worked there.
It sounds like liberal talk. No substance!
Look at this forum. Catholics fighting Protestants..........and visa versa.

HOJO/CLAY take on all comers!(lol)

Catholic church riddled with scandal after scandal and the Pope always saying "Gee I didn't know about that" no one told me!(lol)

UNBELIEVABLE!

In Japan most are atheist, they have no reason to fight against each other, and the Budhists there are all about LOVE AND PEACE!

Japan WINS!!
Fr Robert Dye

Subiaco, AR

#396988 Oct 17, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
-
-
Robert Dye - admitting that Catholic Church is composed of jackasses. who'd o' thunk?
God can accomplish anything he wants, and yes, we are all imperfect - so he DOES use imperfect people - but I do believe that God stops short of using jackasses to accomplish his will. Especially if you consider the biggest jackass of all - Satan himself - I don't think God is using Satan to accomplish his will.
-
Your logic defies explanation, Rob Dye! I guess we can say, "your logic defies LOGIC!" yep. turns it on its head, actually.
Saying God only uses jackasses, because that is all He has, is not the same as saying He makes use of all jackasses.
.
Logic rules, again, Sorry.
.
Rob
MICHAEL

Canada

#396989 Oct 17, 2012
Disciple wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol back at you if you believe what you just posted.
Japan is no better than the US....I've worked there.
It sounds like liberal talk. No substance!
Substance yee shall want! Substance yee shall have!

JAPAN/USA.........check out these crime stats.

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Japan/Uni...

Next time you go to Japan check out any citizen to see if he is carrying a gun or knife. ZERO!

Go downtown in you're own city at night and you will come across a group of illegal aliens from Mexico who will steal you're wallet, and you're identity, and want to sell you drugs or a gun.......or steal you're knife or gun......(lol)
MICHAEL

Canada

#396990 Oct 17, 2012
Disciple wrote:
<quoted text>
Who cares more or less. I argue that the crime is there in both.
I'm disputing his words (not taken as evidence)
If you want to take that route then Saudi's crime is lower than both put together. Now you are going to tell me that because of that Saudi is a normal crime free good society?
Crime is higher where God's given rights are enforced mainly liberty(not to be confused with liberalism....you)
Why would an ALL LOVING God associate with a crime ridden country?

I posted evidence about JAPAN/USA........read my post!
MICHAEL

Canada

#396991 Oct 17, 2012
Disciple wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol back at you if you believe what you just posted.
Japan is no better than the US....I've worked there.
It sounds like liberal talk. No substance!
http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Japan/Uni...

I rest my case.

You should be concerned more why Bishops right around the world have "systematically" lied and covered up the worst sins that were committed by their subordinate clergy, and wonder why so many priests themselves failed the children.

Catholics are by the most part SILENT!.......DISGUSTING!

Over $3 BILLION paid out in lawsuits. That could buy a lot of Kraft dinners for the poor.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#396992 Oct 17, 2012
965 884
Fr Robert Dye wrote:
<quoted text>
.
I *do,* actually.
.
I am sure you have a question in there somewhere, probably quite easily inferable by someone of normal intelligence or higher, but I am afraid I am not quite getting it.
.
I would be happy to answer, should you wish to state it in simpler terms for me.
.
Rob
"The Protestant insists on Scripture alone, failing to recognize the logical fallacy that scripture cannot be a witness to its own authenticity. Something EXTERNAL is required. The witness of the Church thru the Power of the HS, or perhaps a DIRECT Revelation of the HS to every individual Christian (such as Marge and Orville assert)."

So, why do you feel the need to require something external to prove its authencity??? How can you believe in the Word of God if you feel it is not authentic, as in: of undisputed origin or authorship; genuine?????

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#396993 Oct 17, 2012
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
good friend
Okay....
So what do you think the Angel Gabriel meant when he called Mary "full of grace"...Lk 1:28?
Catholics remember in the Bible, that description/title is given ONLY to Jesus(John 1:14) and Mary(Luke 1:28)....It must mean they at least have something in common that the rest of humanity does not share....Again, what do you think? I am curious...
From the NABre...

Lu 1:28 And coming to her, he said,“Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.

Not one word about grace.....nor can I find it in any other Bible version.....

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