Ignorance in reporting, Two waves of immigration, Poles apart

Posted in the Top Stories Forum

“Freedom, Liberty and Justice ”

Since: Aug 08

Connecticut

#1 Aug 5, 2008
Two waves of immigration, Poles apart
My great-grandfather didn't leave his home in the hope of finding a better life -

I remember my great-grandpa Harry very well. The patriarch. The first Coren. I am the only son of the only son of his first son, and I have always considered that, in my solipsistic way, to be a very big deal.
I remember his 90th birthday party in 1975, sitting on his knee, kissing his face and feeling the coarse whiskers against my lips. I remember being pleased that he was exactly the same age as my favourite football team, QPR, which was founded in 1885.
Background
Home Office says there are 300,000 Poles in Britain. I say take that number and double it Lithuania sends envoy to race rage town in Ulster Polish builders do up flat, then stay as squatters Britain taking in 1,500 immigrants a day Twenty-three years later, standing at the funeral of his last surviving son, the women on one side, men on the other, Gus in a box in front of us with a cloth over it bearing the Star of David, I thought how interesting it was, at a time when many of the current generation of Polish immigrants are said to be returning home because the construction work is drying up, that we were all still here - dozens of us descended from a single Pole who came in 1903 - more than 100 years later. Not one of us has gone back. Even to visit.
That is the difference between the two kinds of migration, you see. The economic and the humanitarian. We Corens are here, now, because the ancestors of these Poles now going home used to amuse themselves at Easter by locking Jews in the synagogue and setting fire to it. Harry didn't leave in the hope of finding a better life. Just a life. The option to return was not there for him, for obvious reasons, and by 1945 the Poland he had left did not exist anymore. My sympathy for the plight of the modern Polack is thus limited, and if England is not the land of milk and honey it appeared to them three or four years ago, then, frankly, they can clear off out of it.
When I got home from the funeral I read about the capture of Radovan Karadzic, and saw footage of some of the genocide that he himself instigated so recently, so near to Poland. Serbia has hunted him down, it is said, because it wants to join the EU. But the European Union is not so fussy as it once was. Virulently racist populist politicians hold significant power now in Central and Eastern Europe, and the modern, expand-at-all-costs EU is not bothered by that at all.
Only this week a Radio 4 programme revealed plans by the Lithuanian state prosecutor (with the full support of Lithuania's Deputy Foreign Minister, Jaroslavas Neverovicas) to charge former members of the Jewish resistance in Lithuania - escapees from the ghetto, who were fighting for their lives - with war crimes. As state-sponsored anti-Semitism, it makes Jörg Haider (remember him?), with his mild nostalgia for shiny leather boots and concentration camps, seem terribly innocuous.
Lithuania - which was part of the same state as Poland until 1795 and, like Poland, but unlike Germany, has never gone through any process of recrimination for, or even fully acknowledged, its role in the Holocaust - had an impressive war record, wiping out 95 per cent of its Jewish population, 200,000 people, with very little help from the invaders.
Since then it has shown no interest in prosecuting its own war criminals. And now it's decided that it was all the Jews' fault - again. Don't expect Poland not to follow suit.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/colu...
Mark

Redding, CT

#2 Aug 5, 2008
Get some map and some history book or Check en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_... ) Jews lived and still live in Poland since 1096 and since 1334 received a special laws. After 1347 Black Plague outbreak in Europe many countries massacre and expel Jaws them Poland become their ’new and only home’. Before the WWII Poland had ~12% or near 4 millions Jews, however they usually maintain a higher representation in parliament up to 22.6%(they even have their own ‘national’ party) Participation in armed forces was on the other hand ‘stunning’ 0.7%. Out of 35 documented desertion cases in 1939, 27 were – guess who?…and hundreds flee without a trace. Speaking about the loyalty…There was also examples of heroism and bravery and quite many too – let’s do not dismiss them. On the other aspect, don’t forget Jews broadly supported Russian revolution of 1918 and Communism in Europe yet after 1948 many of them ware allowed to live Iron Curtain and go to Israel (while others stayed and struggled), there was nothing strange about that them. Only a little latter many left Israel and immigrate to USA (Why? Wasn’t Israel ‘humanitarian’ enough for Jews?) I believe any man has the right to go back to his mother land at will – yes that also include Jews to. I also believe that any man has a right to live, breath, eat; drink and work in any country and that people are equal and have elementary rights – any problem with that Mr. Coren? Apparently you don’t know much about sociology nor global migrations. There are other incidents of reveres immigration. Since 1995 USA experience a mass ‘come back home’ of Irish immigrants and nobody; no US, no Ireland no other third party nation (I am not sure about Jews) ware upset about that. Currently USA experiences another voluntary exodus of Latin America Immigrants. Since this started before current economic downfall, some believe it broadly contributed to current crisis and accelerated it. In a sense World Trade Center attack contributed to a harsh immigration laws, and those contributed to the economic collapse (good planning Bin Laden). Polish are also no longer come to US and many are coming back too. As for you Mr. Coren, I am curies, which synagogue was your grandfather burn in, and did it happen once or every Easter? We need a little more details, please!(Preferably historically proven) Jews ware for sure in long supply but what about those synagogues – that would have been a very expensive amusement – wouldn’t it. This is cheep ferry tell for small children like the one we have in remote villages that Jews capture Christian children, kill them and draw blood to make matzos. Come on Giles, how old are you now? With September approaching, perhaps its time for you to leave the newspaper and go back to school and pickup those missing credits. As for “The Times” I want to ask you guys. Are you so under staff, so there are no better experts than a ‘cook’ to write such a ‘political sup’? I thought you guys get your education at Oxford or Cambridge and that “The Times” care about its reputation as honest and objective newspaper. Here in America you would face a number of law suits for sure for something like this. I believe the author and the person who approved this article should to be fired, we also demand “The Times” to apology to readers for this damaging, loaded with personal emotions and opinions outburst. As for me, I am not an anti-Semitist I am a scientist and I am not even a historian, but I am outraged to such ignorance to facts. My wife is one eighth Jewish, 2 of my close friends are 100% Jewish. I remember that being Jewish in communist Poland or Russia was not a picnic, but being Christian wasn’t much easier. My 2 elementary school teachers ware Jewish, yet each year my Christian father always have me bring them some farm produces, yes all for free and yes years after we all graduated. Your story Mr. Coren is an insult to all Poles and embarrassment to all Jews and British.

“Freedom, Liberty and Justice ”

Since: Aug 08

Connecticut

#3 Aug 6, 2008
Mark wrote:
Get some map and some history book or Check
As for me, I am not an anti-Semitist I am a scientist and I am not even a historian, but I am outraged to such ignorance to facts. My wife is one eighth Jewish, 2 of my close friends are 100% Jewish. I remember that being Jewish in communist Poland or Russia was not a picnic, but being Christian wasn’t much easier. My 2 elementary school teachers ware Jewish, yet each year my Christian father always have me bring them some farm produces, yes all for free and yes years after we all graduated. Your story Mr. Coren is an insult to all Poles and embarrassment to all Jews and British.
Thanks for the great response. My response to the artical was not added on line but we are not alone with the reaction to such a ignorant artical. I am waiting for Mr. Coren to correct his history or change his line of work.
Filip Slipaczek

Huddersfield, UK

#5 Aug 30, 2008
Sir,

Letter of Complaint to The Times

It is with deep regret that I must draw to your attention further grossly insulting and defamatory remarks purportedly made by your Restaurant Critic Giles Coren in this week's Jewish Chronicle. Neither The J.C wished to publish, nor do I wish to repeat the exact expletives about Poles allegedly written by your employee in an e-mail to The J.C. May I suggest that both the Editorial Board and Personnel Dept examine the last paragraph of Candice Krieger's most objective and balanced article about the "Coren Affair" to be found on page 5 of this week's edition and consider what action is to be taken against your employee.
As previously stated, I am a UK born Pole with Polish Citizenship and whose paternal grandmother was an Orthodox Jewess who "married out". I amongst others have spent much time and effort attempting to facilitate greater dialogue and understanding between Poles and Poles of Judaic Faith. The J.C. has even featured a number of my and other individual's cross community initiatives between the two communities, the J.C. must be commended for this.
Perhaps The Management of The Times is fully aware of the consequences of this employees continued ill-informed racialist diatribes against a whole nation and its people. I have attempted to mediate and not to further inflame an already tense situation when interviewed by Polish Television and Radio and latterly by Jewish radio. I have always argued that Mr Coren is merely The Restaurant and Cookery Critic of the Times and is not an esteemed academic or an authority in this field.
However, I and many other are no longer prepared to stand by and allow your employee to wontedly sabotage Polish Jewish Reconciliation. If The Management of The Times is truly unaware of the seriousness of the situation perhaps it is time for The Times to either censure this 'loose cannon' or if he wishes to continue in such a manner he should no longer have the journalistic immunity of what was always considered to be a quality newspaper.
Magda G

Doncaster, UK

#6 Sep 14, 2008
I have been so angered by Giles Coren's article, that I have set up a facebook group:'Giles Coren to become infamous for slander of a nation.' I'm hoping that he and his friends will notice this group (he is on facebook) and feel irked by it. I have been copying and pasting comments from the 'Campaign for historical truth' and writing a few of my own thoughts there. It seems that Giles Coren is a horror, with a reputation for using bad language, and being abusive to fellow employees such as his sub-editors. So not only has he got exceedingly bad manners, and no idea about basic courtesy, and common decency, his views can also be identified as slanderous and racist. Something drastic has to be done about this man and the newspaper that supports him!! There's sacking and sueing in order. An apology won't do. Anyway, judging by the obstinate character of Mr. Coren, an apology will not be forth coming, as he has already said in comment to crtiticism from Poles: F*** the Poles.
Mark Rafalat

Croydon, UK

#7 Dec 2, 2008
It is an ignorant and innaccurate article, the most surprising thing about it possibly being that the Times printed it at all! And dissapointing that the Times has not apologised. Maybe all Poles and those sympathetic to them should boycott the paper, hitting their sales may prompt some action.
Agnieszka

Poland

#8 Feb 6, 2013
Mr. Coren
You`re so brillant, so can you tell me if the 3 Millions of Poles killed in the IIWar were anti-Semites too? Do we have to treat them in this way and do not memorize neither call this Polish Holocaust?Just forget them because they probably were, according to your opinion like all Poles the anti-Semites. Also the organization runned by Polish Underground named Żegota who helped the Jews was ani-Semite? At the time, it was the only organization subvetionned by a government who was helping the Jewish victims. I fear to give that question but maybe you will able to respond: do you know who Jan Karski was? By the way, are the historic books must be read in the school you frequented? So, in the name of 3 millions Poles, I ask to be honest in your writting.

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