Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258461 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#206916 Jan 23, 2014
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
If those commandments aren't burdensome, then why do so few Christians manage to follow them? I'd say loving others as yourself is rather difficult, especially when it comes to your enemies. As is the admonition to give most of your wealth to the poor. And turning yourself in to a doormat in turning the other cheek rather than defending yourself.
You are trying to complicate something that isn't

Of course some people struggle with it. But the more people turn their lives over to God completely then the less they will battle the flesh

There are Christians on Topix farther in their walk that it does comes to fairly easily

I have never claimed the fault lies anywhere except with me when I don't follow the teachings as I should. But as I said, for some it isn't burdensome at all. And that is the place God wants us to be it

There simply is no way to turn that into a bad thing

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206917 Jan 23, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
“We live in a world of cause and effect and there’s no way of thinking about cause and effect that allows us to say that the buck stops here”[pointing to his head].
“If we fully understood the neurophysiology of any murderer’s brain, THAT would be as exculpatory as finding a tumor in it. If we could see how the wrong genes were being relentlessly transcribed, if we could see how this person’s genome and entanglement with other people and ideas and events throughout life had sculpted the microstructure of his brain so that it was guaranteed to produce violent states of mind and violent behavior, the basis for placing blame in the sense that we usually do would disappear.”
“The problem is we have a subjective experience of free will, but it can’t be mapped onto physical reality ... If you pay attention, you can see that you no more decide the next thing that you think than the next thing I say ... Thoughts just emerge in consciousness. We are not authoring them. That would require that we think them before we think them. If you can’t control your next thought and you don’t know what it’s going to be till it arises, where is your freedom of will?”
“If you pay attention to how thoughts and intentions arise and how decisions get made moment to moment, I think you can see that there’s no evidence for free will, that actually our experience in life is compatible with the truth of determinism.”
“Where is the freedom in doing what one wants when one’s wants are the product of prior causes which one cannot inspect and therefore could not choose and one had absolutely no hand in creating? From my point of view compatibilism is essentially the dictum that a puppet is free as long as it loves its strings.”
“You can’t honestly take credit for your unconscious mental life.”
“The truth is we feel and presume an authorship over our own thoughts and actions that is illusory. How can we be free as conscious agents if everything we consciously intend was caused by events in our brain which we did not intend and over which we had no control?”
“The idea of punishing people because they deserve it doesn’t make much sense. When we see crime in terms of cause and effect, we become more prudently focused on mitigating harm, assessing risk, deterring crime...all of the variables that govern the well-being of people. So, adopting this perspective reduces hatred and Increases empathy and compassion ... If you want to be like Jesus and love your enemies or at least not hate them, one way of doing it is to take a larger picture of scientific causality into account. Suppose we had an easy cure for evil. We would use it or be immoral for not using it. Our urge for retribution is an artifact of our not seeing the true causes of human behavior."
“God’s justice is purely a matter of retribution...Without free will, God’s “justice” is insanely sadistic."
“Religious people often fear that a better scientific understanding of humans and human behavior would dehumanize us when, in reality, it would humanize us. What could be more dehumanizing than the view that most of the people most of the time by virtue of the fact that they were born in the wrong place to the wrong parents, given the wrong theology, exposed to the wrong intellectual influences were,, crucially responsible for the fact that they didn’t believe in God or believe in the wrong God, and, therefore, as a result deserve to be burned in fire for eternity?”
Buck Crick wrote:
This reminds me of the scientist who, when the first good pictures of Mars were available, mapped out the remains of cities, and even an interstate highway system. Taking small bits of evidence and assuming he knows everything - that's our Sam.
Baby steps. Investigating the unconscious may be the most difficult frontier. We have just begun.

Was there any specific part of Harris' thesis that you wanted to critique? I find it very constructive and life affirming.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#206918 Jan 23, 2014
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not a bad commandment really, loving your enemy as yourself. That’s why we stop at stop signs and red lights.
Oh I agree it's a good thing, but it's certainly not easy, despite what John might claim.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#206919 Jan 23, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
What a scintillating rebuttal.[/sarcasm]
I know, right? Lol.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206920 Jan 23, 2014
Rider on the Storm wrote:
The statement I was trying to make was only that I agreed with you, What you thought was a question after that, was just to provide some reasoning behind it. That a God would look favorably on Bongo while ignoring others pleas. I just thought that would be obvious to you. Apparently not.
OK. No problem. If I knew your philosophy better, I would probably have known what you meant.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#206921 Jan 23, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>You are trying to complicate something that isn't
Of course some people struggle with it. But the more people turn their lives over to God completely then the less they will battle the flesh
And yet there are so many examples of devout Christians (and all other religions too of course) for whom that is not true.

And it's also a fact that one can be just as morally upright as a religious person without the religion. And so the religious faith is entirely superfluous to living a moral life.
There are Christians on Topix farther in their walk that it does comes to fairly easily
I have never claimed the fault lies anywhere except with me when I don't follow the teachings as I should. But as I said, for some it isn't burdensome at all. And that is the place God wants us to be it
There simply is no way to turn that into a bad thing
Treating others as you would be treated is a very good moral base, which again, does not require religion. Being a doormat, on the other hand, is not such a great thing.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#206922 Jan 23, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>He actually gave you the benefit of the doubt that today wasn't representative of your regular level of stupidity.
...followed immediately by...
But you are now going to complain someone isn't following the teachings of the faith?
Really?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#206923 Jan 23, 2014
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, you're probably right, you have to have some sort of personal experience to understand it.
Yep

Just one of those things that someone can't relate to without some type of personal experience

“What game?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#206924 Jan 23, 2014
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I hope you remember you said this,“Responding to a question with another question is just obfuscation.”
Your interpretation of the story is lacking in real truth. You’re not telling the story correctly.
Adam and Eve first error was not believing. They had been forewarned and Adam had obeyed while he was living alone. Then Eve came along and was tempted and gave into that temptation.
Nowhere in the Bible did it say Adam and Eve were going to die that very same day. This is a misnomer read into the scripture by Atheist.
Most of my adult life I worked with all types of deadly poisons & carcinogens. My life and the life of my co-workers depended on our faith in the information we received about the individual hazards of each chemical. A lot of the carcinogens we worked with didn’t kill right away. It could be months to years before Cancer began to show up. Kind of like smoking cigarettes.
One of the most dangerous chemicals I ever worked with was pure Phenol. We were told an exposure to the skin in a 4” x 4” surface area would be immediately fatal. That kind of exposure goes directly to the Central Nervous System. It shuts down all life in the body.
Whatever this forbidden fruit was it was a slow killer. And believe me Wildride there no shortage of slow killing toxins out there.
Another misnomer was a talking snake. In the book of Genesis, there’s the pre cursed serpent and the post cursed serpent. Know one knows what the pre-cursed serpent looked like.
Atheist find it humorous that an animal can talk. There are certain birds that are so intelligent they can communicate verbally with their trainers. Just about all animals are able to communicate in some way or another.
Now why was this tree in the Garden in the first place? Lot’s of vegetation is in the wilderness. Some if it can be fatal if eaten by mankind yet certain animals can digest these forbidden foods with no problem. Poison Ivy is one that comes to mind. Deer’s consume it all the time. Yet humans can’t even touch it.
Genesis 2:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
It's almost as if you believe it's a true story.

“What game?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#206925 Jan 23, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You're the one who's asking me to define "sin" for you.
I'm waiting for the "define: definition" from someone....
There is no sin.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206926 Jan 23, 2014
wilderide wrote:
You'll care when you die and are confronted with a pissed-off Quetzalcoatl.
He won't be able to say that he wasn't warned.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#206927 Jan 23, 2014
Eagle 12 wrote: <quoted text>Adam and Eve first error was not believing. They had been forewarned and Adam had obeyed while he was living alone. Then Eve came along and was tempted and gave into that temptation.
wilderide wrote:
(...)What was the necessity for placing that tree there at all? And why right in front of them? Obviously, it was a set-up.
Ar Ar has already supplied the thread a link - from a Christian source - that answers that question.

20. Why did God create us?...
A. As an experiment
B. He was bored
C. To save us, love us, and have us love Him
D. For pawns in his cosmic game
http://carm.org/theological-test

20. Why did God create us?
C. To save us, love us, and have us love Him.
http://carm.org/answers-theological-test





Now we know why a supreme being would turn itself human just to sacrifice itself to itself to save its own creations from the wrath of itself.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#206928 Jan 23, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I know it's still early.
But I nominate this post of yours as the most idiotic statement of the day.
It's hard to believe you can actually reach this level of stupidity.
I quit smoking for 10 months and another time for a year

The ability to quit something addictive is directly related to the type of drug, the withdrawal symptoms, and the physiological effect

Some people know smoking is addictive and choose to do it anyway out of enjoyment and are able to quit if they want

Other drugs such as opiates bond the the opiate centers of the brain and change brain chemistry. The withdrawal symptoms physically can last anywhere from a month to six months depending on the drug: like methadone takes 6 months. The mental battle never goes away but it does lessen over time

Some addictions are controllable while others are not. Nobody breaks the law or steals or lies or prostitutes themselves to get a cigarette. Nobody loses a house or job or goes to prison over smoking and they wouldn't if smokes were $1000 a pack

Making all addiction comparable does a disservice to those struggling with severe addiction. People already don't understand the loss of self and choice that comes with opiate addiction. Making it seem like people addicted to smoking are in the same boat as opiate addicts will only further the lack of understanding people have about opiate addiction.

While RR may not understand the difference, his post about smoking is accurate. People need to understand the difference between addictions. Both times I quit I had almost zero withdrawal. Some people can quit smoking without much difficulty. Nobody addicted to opiates can. The two addictions are not even in the same ballpark

If you are critic inch the comparison you should make that clear. If you are saying addiction is addiction, it isn't. And since no particular type of addiction was being discussed earlier, it seems like you are lumping all addiction together

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206929 Jan 23, 2014
wilderide wrote:
So who created the apple? Who placed it in front of the humans and set them up to fail? How can an omnipotent deity be only semi-responsible?
The buck stops with Adam and Eve. It's the human's fault, not the omniscient, omnipotent deity that made him as he was.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#206930 Jan 23, 2014
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
...followed immediately by...
<quoted text>
Really?
Yeah really

What don't you understand?

You are talking out of your ass

Didn't you just say it isn't good to be a doormat?

And my ability to adhere to the teachings as I should is a personal weakness. The teaching is sound
Bongo

Patchogue, NY

#206931 Jan 23, 2014
scaritual wrote:
Now we know why a supreme being would turn itself human just to sacrifice itself to itself to save its own creations from the wrath of itself.
You seem to have a problem with the operation of God? Maybe you could advise him on a better way to do things with his creation.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#206932 Jan 23, 2014
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
And yet there are so many examples of devout Christians (and all other religions too of course) for whom that is not true.
And it's also a fact that one can be just as morally upright as a religious person without the religion. And so the religious faith is entirely superfluous to living a moral life.
<quoted text>
Treating others as you would be treated is a very good moral base, which again, does not require religion. Being a doormat, on the other hand, is not such a great thing.
Your obsession with Christianity is rotting your brain

Yes for some people it hard

For those who are further in their walk it is not

Like I already said

Who gives a shit if you think it requires religion? Nobody said it did

I'm not get sucked back into your never ending repetitive nonsense

Find someone else. I knew responding the first time was a mistake

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206933 Jan 23, 2014
Bongo wrote:
John 1.3..All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
That's some good writing there.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206934 Jan 23, 2014
Bongo wrote:
The bible speaks of the 2nd death. Eccl. 7:2-4 "It is better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men; and the living will lay it to his heart. 3 Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better. 4 The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth."
That is very beautiful and inspiring. I feel like dancing.
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#206935 Jan 23, 2014
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
It's almost as if you believe it's a true story.
I do believe it's a true story.

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