Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258482 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#204837 Jan 19, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
If you want the benefit of my intellect, it has conditions.
Like you summoning some honesty from somewhere.
What intellect? My dog is smarter than you. At least she knows not to spout off on subjects she is ignorant of, which puts her miles ahead of you.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#204838 Jan 19, 2014
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong.
Again.
Buck has been wrong before...a lot.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#204839 Jan 19, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>Buck has been wrong before...a lot.
Ya reckon?

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#204840 Jan 19, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>What intellect? My dog is smarter than you. At least she knows not to spout off on subjects she is ignorant of, which puts her miles ahead of you.
Oh my! Is Bucky duck, um.. broken?

He thinks(?) he has intellect :/

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#204841 Jan 19, 2014
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
Buck Crick wrote:
So you think adding "the general principles of English and American liberty" negates the assertion of the general principles of Christianity?
It changes it considerably. It changes the claim from one of America being founded on Christian principles to the claim that some Christian principles were admixed with other kinds of principles, perhaps very few.

I think that deleting that and the ellipses that were the evidence that fragments of quote were sewn together are sufficient evidence to impeach Barton's impartiality and undermine his credibility. The ethics of academia don't permit that.

“In God we trust”

Since: Dec 12

Cape Town, South Africa

#204842 Jan 19, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
They're a big part of Christianity, as is their ignorance and immaturity, both of which are promoted by the church.
<quoted text>
Disagree, as do millions of others.
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I meant a dictionary definition. Let me help:
[1] abomination - something that causes disgust or hatred
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abo...
[2] abomination
1. a person or thing that is disgusting
2. an action that is vicious, vile, etc
3. intense loathing
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abomination
[3] abomination
1. anything abominable; anything greatly disliked or abhorred.
2. intense aversion or loathing; detestation
3. a vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, habit, etc.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abomin...
I didn't find "unpleasant" there anywhere - just words like disgust, hatred, vile, intense aversion or loathing, abhorred, and detestable
That's hatred.
And you hate christians. Nice knowing.

In nigeria there's a law against homosexuality.

My church prayed for freedom of the gays.

Don't believe me, deal with it.
DISLIKE,DISLIKE
We DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIK E,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISL IKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DI SLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE, DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIK E,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISL IKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DI SLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE, DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE what gays do, Not who they are.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#204843 Jan 19, 2014
karl44 wrote:
<quoted text>
there is no truth in christianity
there is some stolen philosophy,
no native truth
In large part true.

If one looks at the Old Testament, one finds a lot that comes form other, older cultures. For example, a version of the Ten Commandments can be found in Egyptian writings that predate the Hebrew. As well, much of the theology of the Old Testament is based on Zoroastrianism, which the Hebrews were exposed to in Babylon. This is where the Old Testament meme of good versus evil originated. It is also at the time of Babylon that Hebrew priests revamped much of their scripture, writing out the old Hebrew pantheon and leaving only Yahweh.

So, when Barton says the US was founded on Christian principles, I guess he really means Egyptian and Babylonian principles.

One could add Buddhist principles in all likelihood. Much of the words of Jesus that are attributed to him in the New Testament are restatements of Buddhist philosophy which is far older than Christianity. I have read speculation that Jesus (if he actually existed) may have studied with a Buddhist monk at one point.

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#204844 Jan 19, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>

You do know, don't you, that you are going to be in just as much sh*t as I am if they ever get their way and come to power? And that is what Barton is working toward...a Christian Dominion Nation.
__________

So we had a Christian Dominion Nation until 1962?

Don't think so.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#204845 Jan 19, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
That quote seems apocryphal to me. I Googled "The general principles of which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity" and got just 4 hits - two from a guy called Dutch Sheets, and two blogs, one in Indonesian http://snipurl.com/28gtlx6
Why do you suppose that is? Can you find any reputable source to confirm Barton's claim that Adams penned or spoke those words? I'm not convinced yet that Barton can be trusted, especially given the problems he has had with the academic community and his former publisher.
I went looking and what I found was that Adams penned them...sort of.

The quote as presented is of the same style as creationist quote mines. There are significant gaps left out which give a different meaning to what Adams said. While Adams did say...

" The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence, were the only principles in which that beautiful assembly of young men could unite, and these principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general principles? I answer, the general principles of Christianity, in which all those sects were united,"

But went on to finish the sentence by saying...

"and the general principles of English and American liberty, in which all those young men united, and which had united all parties in America, in majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her independence."

In other words, Adams included both Christian principles and principles of the Enlightenment.

What Barton has done is to make it seem Adams said ONLY Christian principles. He has lied using the time tested technique of telling only part of the truth.

Note also that Barton even left out the "in which all those sects were united" which follows "Christian principles". Adams didn't even include ALL Christian principles.

Buck has stated that the above quote of John Adams says EXACTLY what Barton said. Buck is wrong.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#204846 Jan 19, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
They're a big part of Christianity, as is their ignorance and immaturity, both of which are promoted by the church.
<quoted text>
Disagree, as do millions of others.
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I meant a dictionary definition. Let me help:
[1] abomination - something that causes disgust or hatred
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abo...
[2] abomination
1. a person or thing that is disgusting
2. an action that is vicious, vile, etc
3. intense loathing
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abomination
[3] abomination
1. anything abominable; anything greatly disliked or abhorred.
2. intense aversion or loathing; detestation
3. a vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, habit, etc.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abomin...
I didn't find "unpleasant" there anywhere - just words like disgust, hatred, vile, intense aversion or loathing, abhorred, and detestable
That's hatred.
"Christians in Africa are murdering gays because they love them and because they find homosexuality a minor annoyance." - Christard apologetics

Imagine what they do to people they don't like!..... They gas them by the millions.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#204847 Jan 19, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Buck has been wrong before...a lot.
When was he right ?

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#204848 Jan 19, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
They're a big part of Christianity, as is their ignorance and immaturity, both of which are promoted by the church.
<quoted text>
Disagree, as do millions of others.
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I meant a dictionary definition. Let me help:
[1] abomination - something that causes disgust or hatred
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abo...
[2] abomination
1. a person or thing that is disgusting
2. an action that is vicious, vile, etc
3. intense loathing
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abomination
[3] abomination
1. anything abominable; anything greatly disliked or abhorred.
2. intense aversion or loathing; detestation
3. a vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, habit, etc.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abomin...
I didn't find "unpleasant" there anywhere - just words like disgust, hatred, vile, intense aversion or loathing, abhorred, and detestable
That's hatred.
RR makes one significant error in his attempt at an analogy. He say "an abominable cup of coffee", which means he hates that one cup of coffee, not all coffee. But when it is said that homosexuals are an abomination, the hatred is applied to all homosexuals.

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#204849 Jan 19, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
That quote seems apocryphal to me. I Googled "The general principles of which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity" and got just 4 hits - two from a guy called Dutch Sheets, and two blogs, one in Indonesian http://snipurl.com/28gtlx6
Why do you suppose that is? Can you find any reputable source to confirm Barton's claim that Adams penned or spoke those words? I'm not convinced yet that Barton can be trusted, especially given the problems he has had with the academic community and his former publisher.
John Adams, "The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States", Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1856), Vol. X, pp. 45-46, to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#204850 Jan 19, 2014
Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>And you hate christians. Nice knowing.

In nigeria there's a law against homosexuality.

My church prayed for freedom of the gays.

Don't believe me, deal with it.
DISLIKE,DISLIKE
We DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIK E,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISL IKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DI SLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE, DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIK E,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISL IKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DI SLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE, DISLIKE,DISLIKE,DISLIKE what gays do, Not who they are.
Hey Carchar :) have you got the crown?

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#204851 Jan 19, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>

You do know, don't you, that you are going to be in just as much sh*t as I am if they ever get their way and come to power? And that is what Barton is working toward...a Christian Dominion Nation.
__________

So we had a Christian Dominion Nation until 1962?

Don't think so.
Is that you on your avatar?

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#204852 Jan 19, 2014
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>"Christians in Africa are murdering gays because they love them and because they find homosexuality a minor annoyance." - Christard apologetics

Imagine what they do to people they don't like!..... They gas them by the millions.
Like Hitler, the devout christian did.

Good post Prof.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#204853 Jan 19, 2014
Note that the condemnation of male homosexuality is only toward the "proxy female" partner. The same attitude existed throughout most of the ancient world.

Anthropology argues that such beliefs are based on primordial dominance rituals in male primates, where it is commonly observed. It is also the assumed to be the basis for the use of "F-U" as a dominance utterance (and attendant hand symbolism)

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#204854 Jan 19, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
I went looking and what I found was that Adams penned them...sort of.
The quote as presented is of the same style as creationist quote mines. There are significant gaps left out which give a different meaning to what Adams said. While Adams did say...
" The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence, were the only principles in which that beautiful assembly of young men could unite, and these principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general principles? I answer, the general principles of Christianity, in which all those sects were united,"
But went on to finish the sentence by saying...
"and the general principles of English and American liberty, in which all those young men united, and which had united all parties in America, in majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her independence."
In other words, Adams included both Christian principles and principles of the Enlightenment.
What Barton has done is to make it seem Adams said ONLY Christian principles. He has lied using the time tested technique of telling only part of the truth.
Note also that Barton even left out the "in which all those sects were united" which follows "Christian principles". Adams didn't even include ALL Christian principles.
Buck has stated that the above quote of John Adams says EXACTLY what Barton said. Buck is wrong.
It DOES say exactly what Barton says. No matter how many times you copy it, or add to it.

"What Barton has done is to make it seem...'

Make it seem?

Barton is trying to make it seem?

You are trying to make it seem. Barton did not say "ONLY".

I have seen nowhere Barton claiming that founding principles were ONLY Christian.

If you have Barton saying that somewhere, produce it. Otherwise, Barton is still correct and you are still a liar.

What else you got?

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#204855 Jan 19, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
You do know, don't you, that you are going to be in just as much sh*t as I am if they ever get their way and come to power? And that is what Barton is working toward...a Christian Dominion Nation.
__________
So we had a Christian Dominion Nation until 1962?
Don't think so.
Well, Buck...

To define terms...

Dominion Theology or Dominionism is the idea that Christians should work toward either a nation governed by Christians or one governed by a conservative Christian understanding of biblical law.

Right Wing Watch says of Barton...

"But Barton has tended to keep his ties to this [Dominionist] movement under wraps..."

But Barton let the cat out of the bag (the complete sentence)...

"But Barton has tended to keep his ties to this movement under wraps and we had never heard him explicitly advocate Seven Mountains Dominionism ... until today on his radio program:"

What did Barton say?

" There's five areas that you have to be able to influence and control if you are going to take a culture and that's media, business, government, education, and pulpit.

Now, for twenty years as it turns out - I wasn't even aware of this - way back, Bill Bright from Campus Crusade, when he was still alive, Loren Cunningham, Youth With a Mission, these guys got together back at the same time and really felt like there were seven areas that had to be taken for a culture and these are the seven that they gave: family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business and government. Now we've grouped some of those together and throw some together, but they said those are the seven areas you have to have and if you can have those seven areas, you can shape and control whatever takes place in nations, continents, and even the world."

What Barton is describing is called "Seven Mountains Dominionism", and he is advocating for it.

You lose.

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#204856 Jan 19, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
So you must agree then that Adams said...
"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence, were … the general principles of English and American liberty … I will avow, that I then believed and now believe that … those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature and our terrestrial, mundane system."
Yes. The historical record proves he said it.

If someone say Adams believed otherwise, the quote above would prove them wrong.

Likewise, he said the nation was founded on the general principles of Christianity.

If someone says he didn't believe that, the quote Barton provides proves them wrong.

What else you got?

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