Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Sep 11

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#202413 Jan 13, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
You are constantly denigrating learning from others.
So tell me, Dave, do you believe electrons exist?
If so, where did you get the idea?
Dave is self taught. He learned of electrons by tinkering with magnets and flashlights in his garage.

Since: Jul 12

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#202414 Jan 13, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:

I think what Bongo meant to write was:
"Tell me, which set of hypotheses related by logical or mathematical arguments to explain and predict a wide variety of connected phenomena in general terms of evolution has been proven?
Which of the various guesses is the one?"
Can you answer? I know Jim can't.
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
Science does not deal in "proof", at least not in the mathematical sense.
As they say, proof is for math and whiskey.
Science deals, instead, in evidence. And the evidence is overwhelming behind the theory of evolution.
Are there debates over evolution within science? Of course. There are debates over any cutting edge in science. But there is no debate over whether evolution occurs. The debates are over things like...is mechanism A or mechanism B more important. In other words, the arguments are over the minutia of the subject, working out the details.
So you can't answer, either?

Good to know.
While we are speaking of debates on minutia...perhaps you can tell me why there are somewhere around 40,000 sects of Christianity all insisting only they are the ones that are right. Seems to me if there were one God, and only one way to worship him, and he is actually telling people how to do it...shouldn't there be only one flavor of Christianity?
Red herring.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#202415 Jan 13, 2014
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Good post. I've confronted many a creationist with chromosome 2, but what I usually find is that they can't grasp the significance of the vestigial centromere and telomeres, and why their location makes it quite clear that a fusion occurred..
And the sad thing is it shouldn't be that hard to conceptualize.

1) Here we have two pieces of string.

2) Here we have one string with a knot in its middle.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#202416 Jan 13, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Because the Alien didn't intend the account to explain radiation.
What is profound, is that it took science 4000 years to understand what was happening.
Forget 10 different people, 10 ATHEISTS can't even give me single answer!
I think your bigotry is making you stupid.
List for me all the types of risks that combine deadly danger, multiple shielding, and a repeating glow effect.
This ignores the facts that the passage speaks of an Alien visitor, who is able to hover above the ground, and accurately predicts a result that we still observe today.
Smile.
Yeah, you've been watching to much ancient aliens. That stuff rots your brain.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#202417 Jan 13, 2014
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Pfft.
Voluntary prayer has never been banned in any school I know of - do you know differently?
And I've "established" a religion all my own. No Congress required.
Engle v. Vitale, 1962

Abington v. Schempp, 1963 (Bible reading)

Commissioner of Education v. School Committee of Leyden, 1971

Justice Stewart, dissenting in Engle:

"With all respect, I think the Court has misapplied a great constitutional principle. I cannot see how an 'official religion' is established by letting those who want to say a prayer say it. On the contrary, I think that to deny the wish of the school children to join in reciting this prayer is to deny them the opportunity of sharing in the spiritual heritage of our Nation... We deal here not with the establishment of a state church..."

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#202418 Jan 13, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You are getting confused.
The ancient passage lists five events, simply as a general explanation of what happened.
1. A extra-terrestrial visitor came
2. His presence emitted such a danger, that three types of shielding were required to prevent death.
3. The affect was a glowing on the skin
4. That affect was repeated every time Moses returned to the Alien presence
5. The Alien was able to hover over the group for an extended time.
Any one of these events is now understood to some degree scientifically. The ability to hover in flight alone is profound. But combined in one account, they become a fatal conundrum for atheists.
Now here is where you expose your ignorant bias; People traveling in the desert would be shocked by Moses returning from an Alien visit because he had a 'sunburn'. LOL, that was priceless...
To top that off, I've made no claim whether the passage is true or not. I simply have asked those who brush off the Bible as nothing but meaningless fiction to explain how this single event, with multiple aspects of modern understanding got into a fake book.
I've listed five aspects, and I'm still waiting for a single atheist to explain them in context.
SMile.
No, silly, the banana is the ultimate conundrum for the atheist.
Bongo

Coram, NY

#202419 Jan 13, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
.
While we are speaking of debates on minutia...perhaps you can tell me why there are somewhere around 40,000 sects of Christianity all insisting only they are the ones that are right. Seems to me if there were one God, and only one way to worship him, and he is actually telling people how to do it...shouldn't there be only one flavor of Christianity?
There is only one flavor in your alledged 40k claim. Jesus is Lord and savoir. If its not Christ centered it doesn't belong in your 40k count.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#202420 Jan 13, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, sure. You can make an enormous educated guess at how many grains of sand are on earth's beaches or the mass of the earth but they are, and will always be, a guess.
It's like I said, just because something is finite doesn't mean it's measurable.
You are correct. Infinite and "immeasurable" are not the same, regardless of what some dictionary definitions say.

Something infinite means it is known to exceed any potential measurement.

No such thing exists, or can exist.

Our Topix physicist and Topix "mathematician" will argue otherwise.

They are wrong as hell.

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#202421 Jan 13, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh.
You mean he wasn't murdering in the name of Satan?
Interesting turn around.
When a Christian goes nuts like that, all you Topix Atheists! blame it on his Christianity and claim he was murdering "for God".
But when a Satanist does it....
He's just an "utter nutcase, and totally wasted on hallucinogens".
Fucking hypocrites.
I have participated in several murder prosecutions in which the defendant explained that he killed because God told him to, and psychological assessments confirmed the defendants' belief they were acting on God's istructions.

Were these defendants murdering in the name of God?

Or were they insane?

What do you think?

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#202422 Jan 13, 2014
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> There is only one flavor in your alledged 40k claim. Jesus is Lord and savoir. If its not Christ centered it doesn't belong in your 40k count.
Did you mean to write that Jesus is Lord and savoir faire?

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#202423 Jan 13, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Numbers represent quantity in the real world.
For infinity, you have to alter rules of operation with those numbers, so as to avoid absurdities - bizarre conflict with those representations in the real world. That's a clue.
Nothing infinite can exist. It is impossible, by virtue of the term itself. For anything that exists in the universe , we can begin to count it, or quantify it.
That proves it cannot be infinite. It's existence in the universe disproves it's infinity, no matter what item we are talking about. Why? Because we begin with a quantifiable presentment, it is finite, and no addition to it can reach infinite. Each addition becomes the next finite quantity, and so on, and so on. So if it exists, it is not infinite. Therefore, the infinite cannot exist.
If someone says otherwise, who has the evidentiary burden? I renew my invitation for an example.
Inflation coupled with expansion by dark energy is faster than the speed of light, since space is flat and boundless, it became infinite as it has a event horizon. Everything beyond this event horizon IS infinity. A simple truth that is hard to accept, but is a real property of the universe...infinity exists whether you like it or except it, it's still there.

Since: May 10

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#202424 Jan 13, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah...I see...you are the one to determine what is and is not religion.
Is that how it works?
And the satanists aren't the only ones that have requested a monument be allowed. A Hindu group has made a request to erect a statue of Hanuman, their monkey god. And the godbots on the Oklahoma legislature are frothing at the mouth over that almost as much as the satanist request.
Are you going to tell me Hinduism isn't a religion either?
Besides, by allowing a Christian monument to be erected, they have made the lawn of the state capitol. It doesn't matter if the sponsoring group is a religion or not. In a public forum, anyone is supposed to be allowed representation. That is freedom of speech. If the legislature only allows the Christian monument, then it becomes an Establishment Clause issue.
No, it does not.

No legislature is prevented from showing preference to the Judeo-Christian religions.

"Preference" is not an establishment of an official state religion, which is all that is addressed by the establishment clause. Nothing else is addressed but "establishment".

That's why they call it the "Establishment Clause".

There is no "preference clause". Or if you have found one, you can point it out for me.

By the way, which day of the week is the federal post office in your town closed?

Around here, it's the Christian sabbath day.

This means Jewish people can only utilize the facility 4 days other than their sabbath.

Christians can utilize it 5 days other than their sabbath.

How is this not a "preference"?

How is this not a preference:

"These and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation".

United States Supreme Court, Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States

(103 years after ratification of the Establishment Clause)

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#202425 Jan 13, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Haha!!
Spontaneous generation was taught as fact for nearly 2,000 years.
But it was never a fact.
I bring it up because I wonder what "facts" we're being taught today that will be discovered aren't facts.
You are not making a profound observation when you say that we have made mistakes, and that we are probably wrong about some things today. Why do you think this matters? Also, why are you incapable of understanding that the scientific method is why we falsified spontaneous generation?

The problem with this type of thinking is that you are prone to absolutist, black and white views on everything. You are trying to compare "belief" in spontaneous generation with "belief" in modern scientific theories, which is beyond nonsensical. Spontaneous generation was simply an idea based on "common sense;" it was not a theory. We were completely and utterly wrong. There are different degrees of wrongness. The belief that the earth was flat was more wrong than the belief that the earth was a sphere. Both are wrong, but one is closer to the truth. It may turn out that one of our modern theories is wrong, but it will be closer to the truth than spontaneous generation. Dismissing modern science and the scientific method because philosophers, not scientists, were wrong about spontaneous generation makes about as much sense as believing the earth might be a square because we used to think it was flat.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#202426 Jan 13, 2014
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> There is only one flavor in your alledged 40k claim. Jesus is Lord and savoir. If its not Christ centered it doesn't belong in your 40k count.
And this is why Catholics and Protestants were joyfully killing each other in Northern Ireland...right? Because there is only one flavor of Christianity and they are all one big happy family.(This is just one example out of a vast number of cases of sectarian violence within Christianity.)

Despite what you may believe, there are 40,000 sects of Christianity, and most of them insist they are the only True Christians (tm).

I recall growing up in the Southern Baptist Church, every year we would have one Sunday School lesson that taught us the only Southern Baptists had the right interpretation of of the Bible. We were told all the other sects had it wrong, which was why we should be good little Southern Baptists.

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?" He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?" He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

-- Emo Phillips
Bongo

Coram, NY

#202427 Jan 13, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have participated in several murder prosecutions in which the defendant explained that he killed because God told him to, and psychological assessments confirmed the defendants' belief they were acting on God's istructions.
Were these defendants murdering in the name of God?
Or were they insane?
What do you think?
This proves God, albeit that criminals God was satan. You were a civil servant? Jehovah God couldn't have told him that because he commanded thou shall not kill.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#202428 Jan 13, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I never made that assertion, but now that you mention it...
I don't care how much DNA we share with apes, we're very different than they are. We share DNA with bananas and rats, too.
I'm not gonna touch your "human and apes have similar faces" comment. I don't wanna talk about Whoopi...
Yes, we do share dna with all living things. Why do you think that is?

Ha! Another one of your "jokes."

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#202429 Jan 13, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct. Infinite and "immeasurable" are not the same, regardless of what some dictionary definitions say.
Something infinite means it is known to exceed any potential measurement.
No such thing exists, or can exist.
Our Topix physicist and Topix "mathematician" will argue otherwise.
They are wrong as hell.
What do you mean something infinite can't exist?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#202430 Jan 13, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Which is the job of courts. But Buck doesn't like that idea, because they don't have the same interpretation he does.
Buck wants to get rid of activist courts. He wants to replace them with activist courts that agree with him.
You are a liar and an idiot.

How much "interpreting" is needed for the noun "Congress"?

How much interpreting is needed for the noun "law"?

How much interpreting is needed for the phrase "establishment of religion"?

We aren't talking about "interpreting".

The Supreme Court had "interpreted" this clause for over 150 years prior to the radical reversal of precedent beginning in 1947.

Don't play games with me. I'm smarter than you, and more honest than you.

I know what "interpreting" means.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#202431 Jan 13, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Good post.
Thanks

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#202432 Jan 13, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have participated in several murder prosecutions in which the defendant explained that he killed because God told him to, and psychological assessments confirmed the defendants' belief they were acting on God's istructions.
Were these defendants murdering in the name of God?
Or were they insane?
What do you think?
I think they were Insane.

I think they were insane enough to want to murder another human being.

But they were smart enough to try the crazy card and get out of jail free.

What do you think? You think God really instructed them to murder?

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