Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258451 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

Into this world we're thrown

#197269 Dec 30, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. your supposition is that spirituality must have a supernatural quality, that it cannot exist naturally and depends on belief and faith in the supernatural, specifically, your god ..
.. authentic spirituality is not about 'knowing.' Rather, it's about 'becoming' and requires faith in self, not the supernatural ..
.. you heard the word, you believed and your journey is over. Have a good life ..
His journey is far from over....You know better then that.......

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197270 Dec 30, 2013
Bongo wrote:
Myself and multitudes of others have received a great gift, He revealed himself to us.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
He has not revealed himself to me. Maybe he loves you more..
Bongo wrote:
Maybe.For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
It aint necessarily so wrote:
OK. Thank ye for sharing. That's a beautiful doctrine you've embraced.
Bongo wrote:
I really feel so blessed. amazing grace
That's nice.

You realize, do you not, that you have described a bigoted god - one that loves some of us enough to show himself to and facilitate their salvation, and others that he would hide from and facilitate their damnation. Your god is unlovable to me.

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#197271 Dec 30, 2013
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> I don't have a supposition, I have a gift. You are gender confused and make a poor pundit.
.. yes, religion is the gift that keeps giving. As a bonus, it allows you to define others according to your beliefs and devalue someone's personhood and life experience ..

.. Hindu? You don't have a clue what I believe or don't believe ,,

.. gender confused? Again, you don't have a clue ..

.. posters like AIN and Buck have command of the English language and use it to express their beliefs. Each word is carefully selected to give meaning to their thoughts, not to impress ..

.. in contrast, you parse a sentence together and rely on a few million dollar words to impress. Did I ever tell you that I am not impressed by people who want to impress ??..

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#197272 Dec 30, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know your take is the authentic one?
.. I don't ..
Bongo

Patchogue, NY

#197273 Dec 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
That's nice.
You realize, do you not, that you have described a bigoted god - one that loves some of us enough to show himself to and facilitate their salvation, and others that he would hide from and facilitate their damnation. Your god is unlovable to me.
You don't understand him. BTW The , love the Lord thy God with all you heart, soul, mind and strength is something you choose not to do.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#197274 Dec 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't. I admit to both in myself. I am unable to prove that no gods exist, but still reject the unsupported claims of others for their existence. The first makes me agnostic, the second an atheist (there I go again affirming a nomenclature that I hope all unbelievers will eventually come to embrace themselves)
<quoted text>
Agreed. Thus, there exists both agnostic theism and agnostic atheism. You would like to merge these clearly distinct categories into one, insert them between what I call gnostic atheism and gnostic theism, and call the three of them unqualified atheism, agnosticism and unqualified theism as if they are mutually exclusive.
Is it not also perfectly consistent to believe no god exists (atheism) and yet have intellectual and philosophical certitude of the truth of it. Likewise with theism? Of course it is, and hence two categories of believing (believing and not believing) crossed with two categories of knowing (certitude and uncertainty) result in four categories of people regarding what they believe and the degree to which they affirm its truth (Oops! I did it again - reasserted that position).
" I am unable to prove that no gods exist, but still reject the unsupported claims of others for their existence."

That is called having faith in a belief.

"Rejecting" is exercising that belief versus a passive reserving judgement.

You are a confused individual, IANS.
Bongo

Patchogue, NY

#197275 Dec 30, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. yes, religion is the gift that keeps giving. As a bonus, it allows you to define others according to your beliefs and devalue someone's personhood and life experience ..
.. Hindu? You don't have a clue what I believe or don't believe ,,
.. gender confused? Again, you don't have a clue ..
.. posters like AIN and Buck have command of the English language and use it to express their beliefs. Each word is carefully selected to give meaning to their thoughts, not to impress ..
.. in contrast, you parse a sentence together and rely on a few million dollar words to impress. Did I ever tell you that I am not impressed by people who want to impress ??..
Youre not impressed by the truth either. Gods definition of man defines , and you and yours don't like it.

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

Into this world we're thrown

#197276 Dec 30, 2013
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> You don't understand him. BTW The , love the Lord thy God with all you heart, soul, mind and strength is something you choose not to do.
Loving the Lord thy God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength is an impossible thing to do.

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#197277 Dec 30, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. your supposition is that spirituality must have a supernatural quality, that it cannot exist naturally and depends on belief and faith in the supernatural, specifically, your god ..
.. authentic spirituality is not about 'knowing.' Rather, it's about 'becoming' and requires faith in self, not the supernatural ..
.. you heard the word, you believed and your journey is over. Have a good life ..
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
His journey is far from over....You know better then that.......
.. yes, this may be true. Realistically, we can only address what is presented: an individual lacking authentic spirituality. This is evident from Bongo's writing; his insistence on demeaning others while claiming the higher spiritual ground. That's a contradiction which tells me Bongo has arrived at his final destination and has 'become'..

.. your thoughts ??..

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197278 Dec 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Even if this is historically accurate, it doesn't invalidate the merit of the argument (genetic fallacy). In fact, I just made a similar argument myself as to why it is not only logically accurate to use the words "atheist" and "agnostic" as many of us are now doing and recommending do, but perhaps also strategically sound.
Buck Crick wrote:
You prove my point. The attempt to re-brand atheism is not an intellectual argument - it is a rhetorical argument ...
I contradicted that. I said that the argument is logically sound, not rhetorical.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
... and a strategy, not an attempt to elucidate.
It is both an attempt to elucidate and a strategy to mitigate the damage done by the Christian strategy, which was implemented centuries ago, and has gone unanswered until recently. You call that a ruse. I don't. I call it a rebuttal.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197279 Dec 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Atheism is not the default position, and carries the same burden of proof as theism.
If there are only theism and atheism, then atheism is the default position. If you can successfully insist that there is only gnostic atheism, gnostic theism, and call the two kinds of agnosticism - theistic and atheistic - one thing, then inset it between the others, then that middle category would seem like the default position.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Atheists should make their case intellectually, not by sleight of hand.
I agree. I would say that it is you, however, who is resorting to sleight of hand by trying to insist that all atheism is all gnostic, and that there is no distinction between agnostic atheism and agnostic theism. If you can prevail there, you might be able to persuade others that atheism is not a default position.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#197280 Dec 30, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
.. I don't ..
Then why pretend like it is?

".. authentic spirituality is not about 'knowing.' Rather, it's about 'becoming' and requires faith in self, not the supernatural .."

That kind of statement makes it seem like your take, your version, of spirituality is the real deal, the authentic one.

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#197281 Dec 30, 2013
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> Youre not impressed by the truth either. Gods definition of man defines , and you and yours don't like it.
.. the post has no substance, it reveals nothing ..

.. what's God's definition of man? That we're worthless dirt bags born sinful because of some ancient ancestor ??..

.. if so, I don't like that argument and reject it. Do you accept it ??..

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197282 Dec 30, 2013
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> Most atheists and the bifurcated ones are fainted Christians and have read their bible.
That bible ought to make you faint. or at least blush.

[1] "Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." - Ezekiel 23:19-20

[2] "His breasts are full of milk." - Job 21:24

[3]“The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods (hemorrhoids), and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.”– Deuteronomy 28:27

[4]“And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight." - Ezekiel 4:12

[5]“The fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers.”- Ezekiel 5:10

[6]“As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.”- Proverbs 26:11

[7]“Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces.”- Mal.2:3

[8]“But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning.”- Judges 19:25

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197283 Dec 30, 2013
Bongo wrote:
Deep down inside they know the consequence if they are wrong and they really really really just don't know if they are right , how could they?
You don't know if you are right. Have you considered the consequences of being wrong? What neither of us knows is whether gods that have chosen not to reveal themselves or are incapable of doing so exist.

What do you plan to do if we both find ourselves in an afterlife facing such gods, and they are unhappy with what you did with your twin gifts of reason and conscience? What if they are offended by what you chose to worship?

As for my choice, I can know that I am right not to worship the Christian god. It cannot possibly exist. And if it could and did exist, it wouldn't matter if we worshiped it or not. It doesn't keep its promises, and it has no problem being unjust or torturing human souls. How long do you think you could last in heaven with free will anyway?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#197284 Dec 30, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
.. the post has no substance, it reveals nothing ..
.. what's God's definition of man? That we're worthless dirt bags born sinful because of some ancient ancestor ??..
.. if so, I don't like that argument and reject it. Do you accept it ??..
Flesh bag, not dirt bag....

:)
Bongo

Patchogue, NY

#197285 Dec 30, 2013
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Loving the Lord thy God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength is an impossible thing to do.
only for the dead

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#197286 Dec 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't know if you are right. Have you considered the consequences of being wrong? What neither of us knows is whether gods that have chosen not to reveal themselves or are incapable of doing so exist.
What do you plan to do if we both find ourselves in an afterlife facing such gods, and they are unhappy with what you did with your twin gifts of reason and conscience? What if they are offended by what you chose to worship?
As for my choice, I can know that I am right not to worship the Christian god. It cannot possibly exist. And if it could and did exist, it wouldn't matter if we worshiped it or not. It doesn't keep its promises, and it has no problem being unjust or torturing human souls. How long do you think you could last in heaven with free will anyway?
You don't last too long anywhere if all you do is destroy with your free will.

Keep promises? What have you done to get a promise? What's in it for the promising entity?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#197287 Dec 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
That bible ought to make you faint. or at least blush.
[1] "Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." - Ezekiel 23:19-20
[2] "His breasts are full of milk." - Job 21:24
[3]“The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods (hemorrhoids), and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.”– Deuteronomy 28:27
[4]“And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight." - Ezekiel 4:12
[5]“The fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers.”- Ezekiel 5:10
[6]“As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.”- Proverbs 26:11
[7]“Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces.”- Mal.2:3
[8]“But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning.”- Judges 19:25
I love it when atheists quote the Bible.

encore! encore!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197288 Dec 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Gods do not exist:
A. Definitely true (gnostic atheist)
B. Probably true (agnostic atheist)
C. Probably false (agnostic theist)
D. Definitely false (gnostic theist)
Buck Crick wrote:
A and B are atheists.
Agreed.
Buck Crick wrote:
Both have a belief - that gods do not exist.
If you mean that they have the same belief that gods definitely do not exist, you are incorrect. They gave different answers because they have different beliefs.
Buck Crick wrote:
A is an atheist who is a liar. This category includes most Topix atheists.
How about category D, which I believe includes all Christians presently posting, including Eagle, Riverside Redneck, Bongo, Clearwater, and lightbeamrider. I beliee that they would all say that their god definitely exists. Are they all liars too?

And if you think they are, why did you omit that from you analysis, but go out of your way to call most unbelievers posting liars?
Buck Crick wrote:
" None of the above" represents lack of belief. Yet this is what most Topix atheists claim. He tries to be both "A" and "none of the above".
I haven't seen a single Topix atheist claim that he or she has no beliefs.

Let me add two more categories to the above:
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Gods do not exist:
A. Definitely true (gnostic atheist)
B. Probably true (agnostic atheist)
C. Possibly true, possibly false. I choose not to believe.(also an agnostic atheist)
D. Possibly true, possibly false. I choose to believe (agnostic theist)
E. Probably false (also an agnostic theist)
F. Definitely false (gnostic theist)
Are categories C and D what you call none of the above? If not, what is a none-of-the-above? What kind of person would not be able to choose one of these six categories apart from an microcephalic, an infant and somebody in a coma? Perhaps somebody with Stage 7 Alzheimer's disease.

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