Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 242951 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197196 Dec 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
He has not revealed himself to me. Maybe he loves you more.
Bongo wrote:
Maybe.For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
OK. Thank ye for sharing. That's a beautiful doctrine you've embraced.

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#197197 Dec 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
"A" is the atheist and "B" is the theist.
You can further refine your answer if you ask those choosing "A" above the following question:
I claim to know with certainty that gods cannot or do not exist
A, True
B. False.
"A" is the gnostic atheist, and "B" is the agnostic atheist.
The two questions can be combined thusly:
Gods do not exist:
A. Definitely true (gnostic atheist)
B. Probably true (agnostic atheist)
C. Probably false (agnostic theist)
D. Definitely false (gnostic theist)
Incidentally, there was a time not long ago when an unbelieving former Christian, especially a younger woman, would not likely have been willing to use the word "atheist" to describe herself. One of the consequences of so much discussion on this subject is the gradual removal of the stigma associated with the word "atheist". By debating a theist who seems hellbent on getting us to conform to his preferred usage, we develop a sense of solidarity, and little by little, come to feel better about using the word. I have, I didn't like calling myself an atheist when I first came to Topix five years ago,.but I do so without reservation now.
I live in a country where Atheists are the majority.

No issues there.

I was appalled and repulsed upon discovering that in America, Atheists were in 'the closet', then set about to understand all that this implies.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#197198 Dec 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Liberals don't want the shirt from the guy who only owns the one on his back. They want it from the guy with the wardrobe full of shirt. The conservative plan - giving tax breaks principally to the wealthy is - giving that guy a few more shirts.
Aptly put.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#197199 Dec 30, 2013
River Tam wrote:
That's what I mean. My stories can only go so far. I'm 20.
There are stories to be listened to here but only if they're told.
It's day after day of meaningless bullshit. Hitler was an atheist, NO, Hitler was a Christian. Stalin was an atheist, NO...well yes but Stalin killed for Communism.
You know more about me than some of my (physically) closest friends.
I want somebody, other than me, to give me a glimpse of personality.
Jimi Hendrix killed for guitarism.

I used to work with a guy named Charlie. He was in his 50s probably. One day at work he invited me and a few other guys over to his place to partake of the herb. We smoked, we drank, and we played guitar. Charlie taught me a few chords so I could play one of my favorite Nirvana songs. A good time was had by all. Except that he only had Canadian Mist to drink and that stuff was awful. Charlie was a cool dude.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197200 Dec 30, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
Of course I would pay him minimum wage. After all, you would not expect that if he agreed to exchange work for a price, and I agreed to the same, and his mother and sister agreed to the same, that we would actually be free to do that? Right? What kind of country would that be, where two people can enter into a voluntary, mutually beneficial economic agreement?
We know what kind of a country that would be - the kind that the people who finance the propagation of the ideas like the ones you dutifully repeat envision for themselves. No thanks.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#197201 Dec 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Liberals don't want the shirt from the guy who only owns the one on his back. They want it from the guy with the wardrobe full of shirt. The conservative plan - giving tax breaks principally to the wealthy is - giving that guy a few more shirts.
My mom got me a 3 pack of shirts made in Pakistan for Christmas.

They have a bunch of pockets all the way around the mid section that would be perfect for Slim Jims or M&M minis tubes.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197202 Dec 30, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> As it relates to Clinton. One of my favorite lesbians in Camille Paglia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Paglia
Paglia characterizes herself as a Clinton Democrat and libertarian.[7][56] She opposes laws against prostitution, pornography, drugs, and abortion.[63] Paglia criticized Bill Clinton for not resigning after the Monica Lewinsky scandal, which she says "paralyzed the government for two years, leading directly to our blindsiding by 9/11."[64]
That alone is reason to reject her analyses. Clinton didn't paralyze government. His dogged persecutors did, which was their intention, just as it was when they forced a shutdown of the government earlier this year, and why they obstruct Obama at every turn. They're not called "the party of no" for nothing. If Paglia can't see that, she has nothing to say to me about politics.

Paglia also clearly misunderstood the Duckman issue when she called A&E's letting him go "utterly fascist, utterly Stalinist" and claimed that "people have the right to free thought and free speech" as if his right to speak had been denied.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#197203 Dec 30, 2013
LuciFerr wrote:
I live in a country where Atheists are the majority.
No issues there.
I was appalled and repulsed upon discovering that in America, Atheists were in 'the closet', then set about to understand all that this implies.
It's surreal.

In Australia, are the smarter kids in schools the ones who get made fun of? It's like that.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197204 Dec 30, 2013
Bongo wrote:
scurried seemed like a good word because you didn't stay and fight
Stay and fight what how? What would you have had me do from within the United States that can't be done where I am? What are you doing from where you are that I cannot do here?

And fight what? The government? How? Voting? Petitions? Letters to a Congressman? Those are pointless. The democracy is gone. Your choices are to adapt to the new reality or move on if you can.

I'll tell you what: if conservatives want liberals to stand beside them, they'll need to adopt some new language. I spent eleven years in rural Missouri where the only talk radio available to me on the radio featured Dennis Prager in the mornings, Rush Limbaugh at lunch time, and Sean Hannity in the evenings. I heard these men and their callers referring to people like me as if we were parasites or a disease. They called us cowards, traitors, America haters, and more - everything but fellow American. And the local townspeople agreed with them.

I didn't trust the conservatives to do the smart thing, or to care about me. Likewise with the government. Liberalism is dead in America. The plutocrats and corporatists won.

So what reason is there for me to remain in America? Why would you want me there? Your fellow conservatives don't.

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#197205 Dec 30, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
It's surreal.
In Australia, are the smarter kids in schools the ones who get made fun of? It's like that.
Sometimes but I have observed that since BBT, nerds are getting kinda cool, glbt kids still get teased a bit though, mainly in private religious schools, where bullying in general is far more rampant.

I was a nerd but also a tomboy jock with three younger brothers, I only ever got teased once in each school.

Nuns were mean though, they hit me with sticks for asking questions, then I'd get expelled, I may have reacted unfavorably at being hit with a stick, that was in Sth America though, not Oz.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#197206 Dec 30, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
My mom got me a 3 pack of shirts made in Pakistan for Christmas.
They have a bunch of pockets all the way around the mid section that would be perfect for Slim Jims or M&M minis tubes.
"They shall weave their bandoleros into ponchos." - Juan 3:27

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197207 Dec 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
What have you learned from [Dave Nelson], and how has it enriched your understanding of reality?
Buck Crick wrote:
A confirmation, more or less, of properties I already suspected. Like the recapitulation in all of nature, even in cosmogenesis, of the smallest events in atoms and molecules.
Would you care to elaborate?

And didn't you say that Nelson understood physics better than Polymath? Your words were, "Dave has a better understanding of physics than anyone on this thread. That includes me and Polymath. Polymath's type have more rote knowledge. But they don't understand what they know"

Is the recapitulation thing what you meant? It must be, It was your first and only example of Nelson physics, which isn't really physics at all, and demonstrates zero knowledge of the subject.

The physics of the cosmos is completely different from the physics of an atom, and has been since the universe exceeded the size of an atom..I can hardly begin to list the differences, but a few would be that subatomic particles are characterized by wave-particle duality, uncertainty/indeterminacy, are described probabilistically, and experience almost no gravitational effects. The cosmos considered as a whole is expanding, deterministic, and dominated by gravity. It's starry and galactic denizens are described by deterministic mathematics.

Please do elaborate. Where is the recapitulaltion that Dreamin' Dave told you about in his science poetry?
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I read somewhere that a cell in the human body stores only enough nutrients to live for 24 hours. "Give us this day our daily bread" Synchronicity.
What does that have to do with this discussion? Weren't you defending the quality of Nelson's physics?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197208 Dec 30, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
Every new discovery in biology is in conflict with mainstream biology, because the mainstream model does not include the new discovery. You can parse that anyway you like as far as degree of conflict, but it is true.
Disagree, unless by conflict you mean any form of debate.

I can name many new discoveries in biology that were not in conflict with older understanding, where conflict implies more than just differing opinions. In fact, I can't think of one that was right now. Can you? New discoveries merely amplify older knowledge. When Gould postulated punctuated equilibrium, he didn't contradict anything. The default position had been a smooth, continuous evolution in accordance with Occam's Razor, until new data surfaced (literally!) suggesting otherwise. With new observations to account for, the theory was modified accordingly.

Conflict is like the schism between mainstream science and ID. It is an ideological battle that goes to the roots of the philosophy of science. Debates like the one between Big Bang cosmologists and Steady State cosmologists are healthy science, not conflicts in any meaningful sense of the word.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197209 Dec 30, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
The ID people have no discoveries? Only a philosphy? Never borne fruit? Hiding said the same thing. I forced her to capitulate by citing evidence.
If you would like me to start, I can begin here: First question - Is this article by ID scientists published in "Philosophy" or in "Integrative Zoology"? "Active bleb formation is abated in Lytechinus variegatus red spherule coelomocytes after disruption of acto-myosin contractility"
Is "acto-myosin contractility" a hot topic among philosophers? I haven't seen it.
What does that have to do with intelligent design? I'm not implying that ID scientists can't also do mainstream science consistent with methodological and philosophical materialism. I just don't include those contributions part of ID,which I consider pseudoscience.
Buck Crick wrote:
Second question. Was this article by ID scientists published in a philosophy journal, or in "Biochemistry"? And does it intimate any potential "bearing fruit" at all? Biochemistry.44(18):6877-88. Framework model for DNA Polymerases. "As an example application, we use the general framework ideas to build a detailed model for the HIV reverse transcriptase that is consistent with existing data, and predicts force-velocity curves and stepping-statistics histograms that can be directly compared to experiment." ....You get the sense of where this is going.
Same criticism. Where is the intelligent design aspect of that?

Is your argument with me going to be about the fact that I said "the ID people have no discoveries - just a philosophy that is antithetical to naturalistic science, and which has never borne fruit" rather than specifying that they have no discoveries supporting a claim for intelligent design? If your point is the trivial one that ID scientists are also capable of doing mainstream science, I agree.

Let me rephrase my claim: The ID scientists have no discoveries supporting intelligent design.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197210 Dec 30, 2013
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
RiversideRedneck wrote:
You skipped 1. In 2, matter is called matter, not energy. Try again.
Why? I made my points the first time.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197211 Dec 30, 2013
River Tam wrote:
I think Buck's comment was tongue in cheek. We should make him pull himself up by his bootstraps and toe the line before we string him up. Crap, I just went all Tide while posting as River Tam.
Catcher1 wrote:
RR is a heel.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
And a little insolent at times.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Respect is earned, not given.
You missed the pun. Again. Perhaps you hadn't noticed that we cobbled together a series of shoe puns. Shall I explain mine to you? It was the last of the upper quoted comments.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197212 Dec 30, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I don't suppose you and IANS consider either shows to be real news....
Please don't say it....
I get a fair amount of news from both Jon Stewart and Bill Maher, and most of the rest from my wife, who gets it from the Internet and either tells me about it or posts it to Facebook, which results in an email notification. Where else? The litany of murders, child abductions, temperature forecasts, and sports results that pass for news in shows called the news?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#197213 Dec 30, 2013
River Tam wrote:
That's what I mean. My stories can only go so far. I'm 20.
There are stories to be listened to here but only if they're told.
It's day after day of meaningless bullshit. Hitler was an atheist, NO, Hitler was a Christian. Stalin was an atheist, NO...well yes but Stalin killed for Communism.
You know more about me than some of my (physically) closest friends.
I want somebody, other than me, to give me a glimpse of personality.
Why Communism Failed.

http://robertnielsen21.wordpress.com/2013/04/...

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#197214 Dec 30, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Why Communism Failed.
http://robertnielsen21.wordpress.com/2013/04/...
lol

I'm going to go log into my Word Press account and write something, then come back here and post you a link to it.

Don't get all giddy about it, probably won't happen 'til next year.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#197215 Dec 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
That's what makes me an agnostic atheist.
Buck Crick wrote:
And I am a married bachelor. If we assume a bachelor is the default position of rationality, and I am married, I can just say I am a married bachelor, because bachelor doesn't mean unmarried any more. It now just means ambivalence toward marriage.
Neat, huh?
Not analogous. Married and bachelor are mutually exclusive. Bachelor implies unmarried

I can be both an unbeliever and unknowing at the same time. In fact, if i only claim belief or unbelief rather than certain knowledge, I am implying that uncertainty. Rather than being mutually exclusive, the terms are closer to redundant.

You probably know what an oxymoron is - a pair of contradictory terms yoked together in a phrase such as "pretty ugly" and "awfully nice". Are you familiar with pleonasms? They're the opposite - a pair of redundant terms, like "new beginning" and "end result."

"Ear piercings while you wait"

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