Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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#196123
Dec 26, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Six people don't represent Christianity.
<quoted text>
That's because you need them to.
You'll willfully ignore all the Christian attitudes that pose a threat to your anti-Christian dialogue because you can't have your paper wall torn down.
<quoted text>
I voted for Bush because of politics, not his religion.
<quoted text>
Not really. I support Robertson in his rights of freedom, even though I disagree with him.
So I support him, but he does not represent me or my thoughts or my religion.
<quoted text>
Because Stalin DID represent atheism.
Historical facts are not up for debate.
<quoted text>
I don't understand.
No, you don't understand.

And you have no interest in understanding.

You just want relief from your workplace boredom by being an Internet wiseass.

And you shift around with no scruples, changing your stories with a pretense of humility and sincerity.

Here's an example of your duplicity: repeatedly, you have told us you have a good job, have all you want for a good life, are financially secure.

Then you come along and say that you have learned here, and you are an open book, and you have admitted to being broke.

When I called you on your sudden fall into to penury, you dodged with one of your typical wiseass comments.

You're a fraud, RR, a shameless fraud.

Totally transparent.

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#196125
Dec 26, 2013
 

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Jim wrote:
Atheism is a Simple Disbelief in religion.
OK.

So you, as an atheist have a disbelief in Christianity.

But you have a belief in God.

Neato.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

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#196126
Dec 26, 2013
 
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it's the definition of the term "atheism".
Words have meanings.
It's a long-running trend. Thought you heard.
Oh, and you're mistaken. The OED definition is :

"Atheism (noun)
noun
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."

“The future begins”

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#196127
Dec 26, 2013
 

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Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Darwinism is strict adherence to the theory of evolution, as presently constructed.
What does it have to do with Hitler?
Practically everything. Where did Hitler get the idea that killing inferior races was an evolutionary benefit? From Darwinian inspired biologists and social thinkers who taught:
1. Humans were not qualitatively different from animals.
2. Denied that humans had an immaterial soul.
3. Morality was the product of mindless evolution, thus there is no objective, fixed morality and thus no objective human rights.
4. Since evolution requires variation, human inequality is a principle.
5. Human races are locked in an ineluctable struggle for existence.
6. Darwinism justified Hitler in overturning the Judeo-Christian view of death as an enemy, construing it instead as a beneficial engine of progress.

Whatever else he gave us, Darwin gave us Hitler.
Well, if you wanna play that game, Darwin also "gave us" free-market capitalism.

Right?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#196128
Dec 26, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
Yes,["How far we Americans have fallen, in the past 40 years"] is the saddest thing in my life.
Bongo wrote:
This is confusing. Haven't you been among the few who can create their own environment?
I can't create my own environment. I can control my circumstances more than some, but I did so mostly by changing environments.
Bongo wrote:
In the last 40 year there have been many improvements.
The improvements of the last 40 years, which are mostly technological, haven't been peculiar to America. I enjoy those improvements here in Mexico as much as I would in the States.

The changes that affect primarily Americans and life in America have not been improvements.They include a degradation of education, the media, individual rights, social contentment, economic opportunity, infrastructure, and more.

When I was born, America was a winner. It's visions were great and its reach greater. It had practically invented the modern version of democratic government and personal political freedom, had grown wealth and strong, and was the envy of the world.

In the years immediately preceding my birth, America had succeeded in recovering from a great depression, and had played an essential part in winning World War II. The Manhattan Project had been a huge success, the Marshall Plan had been a huge success, and Social Security and Medicare were successes. In my early years, Kennedy pointed at the moon and America got there in less than a decade.

But that all changed. Today, America can't tie its shoes without tripping. It's failure after failure. Vietnam was a failure. Iraq was a failure. 9/11 was a failure. The banking and mortgage fiasco was a huge failure. Katrina was a huge failure. The Gulf oil spill was a huge failure. Both political parties are failures. The country is in a deep recession with high unemployment, massive debt, alarming inflation, and an unsound dollar. The nation is divided, and almost everybody is anxious and dissatisfied.

And I see no hope for turning things around.

That is what I was referring to as the saddest thing in my life.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

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#196129
Dec 26, 2013
 

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Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you know that in December 2013 human trafficking, especially of young girls is sadly high? Forget the same old crap you here on tv of whoever is for or against something and trying to relate it to slavery of a bygone era. What church stands against this? Or people being addicted to drugs? Point is evil is on this earth. Some do the best we can where we can. Btw this is the first I've heard of what you speak and while I'm only one I'm against it. Here is some info:
The Reality of Human Trafficking in the Americas: Disturbing Story of a 9-Year-Old Abducted and Apparently Sold Into Sex Slavery
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/09/th...
.. are you withdrawing your application to be one of my sex slaves ??..

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#196130
Dec 26, 2013
 

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Jim wrote:
<quoted text>
Buck, like many dishonest argumenters, has realised he has no valid points against Athiesm.
He and other creationist trolls believe that by simple repetition, they will be able to influence others into thinking that Atheism is a form of communism or stalinism.
This is religious propoganda technique and they are well aware of it.
it doesn't matter how many times you correct them about Atheism being simple disbelief, or Hitler being Christiian.
Through simple repetition the cunning creationists will try to subvert facts with apologist propoganda.
I agree in general, but please, "Hitler was a Christian" is doing the exact same thing we find odious in their game. Hitler used Christianity, as he masterfully exploited everything at his disposal, but nothing he did was in any way Christ-like, whether I believe in the Christ or not.

Just sayin'.......;)

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

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#196131
Dec 26, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism has nothing to do with religions.
It's a belief that deities don't exist.
Worth saying again, because some people just won't pay attention.

"Atheism:(noun):
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods." - OED.

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#196132
Dec 26, 2013
 

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HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Well, if you wanna play that game, Darwin also "gave us" free-market capitalism.
Right?
No.

Do you have a relevant question?
Bongo

Patchogue, NY

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#196133
Dec 26, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Faith is obviously a beautiful thing, Bongo.
I have often said that it is indifferent to reason and evidence, but perhaps I was wrong. You offer us a different insight.
<quoted text>
The values of secular humanism contradict the "Prince of Peace" there.
<quoted text>
You're a little late for Merry Christmas, but Happy Holidays is still appropriate for most of a week.
1) It really is . 2) my pleasure. 3) Not really, there isn't going to be peace for transgressors. Unfortunate for humanists, Gods prescription for man negates all other methods. 4) Never to late , Go tell it on the mountains, over the hills and far away, Jesus Christ is Lord.

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#196134
Dec 26, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I can't create my own environment. I can control my circumstances more than some, but I did so mostly by changing environments.
<quoted text>
The improvements of the last 40 years, which are mostly technological, haven't been peculiar to America. I enjoy those improvements here in Mexico as much as I would in the States.
The changes that affect primarily Americans and life in America have not been improvements.They include a degradation of education, the media, individual rights, social contentment, economic opportunity, infrastructure, and more.
When I was born, America was a winner. It's visions were great and its reach greater. It had practically invented the modern version of democratic government and personal political freedom, had grown wealth and strong, and was the envy of the world.
In the years immediately preceding my birth, America had succeeded in recovering from a great depression, and had played an essential part in winning World War II. The Manhattan Project had been a huge success, the Marshall Plan had been a huge success, and Social Security and Medicare were successes. In my early years, Kennedy pointed at the moon and America got there in less than a decade.
But that all changed. Today, America can't tie its shoes without tripping. It's failure after failure. Vietnam was a failure. Iraq was a failure. 9/11 was a failure. The banking and mortgage fiasco was a huge failure. Katrina was a huge failure. The Gulf oil spill was a huge failure. Both political parties are failures. The country is in a deep recession with high unemployment, massive debt, alarming inflation, and an unsound dollar. The nation is divided, and almost everybody is anxious and dissatisfied.
And I see no hope for turning things around.
That is what I was referring to as the saddest thing in my life.
In the years preceding your birth America was still regimented from the war and was the sole surviving economic power in the world.

It was still God, guns, and guts.

With the prosperity came chafing at the regimentation and all of your liberal advances, some which got carried away with the rabble rousing for votes. Which is one reason for the push for universal voting. You didn't have to be responsible or productive, you just had to vote for those who would bring you an easier life.

Rebellion against the status quo and egalitarianism without earning it.

Plus the drugs.

Activism and conflict destroyed your America.

You went from marching in formation to a goal to just wandering around the landscape.

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#196135
Dec 26, 2013
 

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macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Worth saying again, because some people just won't pay attention.
"Atheism:(noun):
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods." - OED.
Your reference is wrong - it uses a diluted definition.

Atheism, from the Greek a-theos ("no-god"), is the philosophical position that God doesn't exist. It is distinguished from agnosticism, the argument that it is impossible to know whether God exists or not (Academic American Encyclopedia).

Atheism, system of thought developed around the denial of God's existence. Atheism, so defined, first appeared during the Enlightenment, the age of reason (Random House Encyclopedia-1977).

Atheism (from the Greek a-, not, and theos, god) is the view that there are no gods.(Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy-1995).

Atheism is the doctrine that there is no God. Some atheists support this claim by arguments, but these arguments are usually directed against the Christian concept of God, and are largely irrelevant to other possible gods (Oxford Companion to Philosophy-1995).

Atheism (Greek, a-[private prefix]+ theos, god) is the view that there is no divine being, no God (Dictionary of Philosophy, Thomas Mautner, Editor-1996).

Atheism is the belief that God doesn't exist (The World Book Encyclopedia-1991).

Atheism, the critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or spiritual beings. Atheism is to be distinguished from agnosticism, which leaves open whether there is a god or not, professing to find the question unanswerable, for the atheist, the non-existence of god is a certainty (The New Encyclopedia Britannia-1993).

According to the most usual definition, an atheist is a person who maintains that there is no godů(rejects eccentric definitions of the word)(The Encyclopedia of Philosophy-1967).

Atheism is the doctrine that God does not exist, that belief in the existence of God is a false belief. The word God here refers to a divine being regarded as the independent creator of the world, a being superlatively powerful, wise and good (Encyclopedia of Religion-1987).

Atheism (Greek and Roman): Atheism is a dogmatic creed, consisting in the denial of every kind of supernatural power. Atheism has not often been seriously maintained at any period of civilized thought (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics-Vol II).

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#196136
Dec 26, 2013
 

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Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you don't understand.
And you have no interest in understanding.
You just want relief from your workplace boredom by being an Internet wiseass.
And you shift around with no scruples, changing your stories with a pretense of humility and sincerity.
Here's an example of your duplicity: repeatedly, you have told us you have a good job, have all you want for a good life, are financially secure.
Then you come along and say that you have learned here, and you are an open book, and you have admitted to being broke.
When I called you on your sudden fall into to penury, you dodged with one of your typical wiseass comments.
You're a fraud, RR, a shameless fraud.
Totally transparent.
I am financially secure.

Maybe that means having tons of money sitting in the bank to you. It doesn't mean that to me.

You are the one who doesn't understand and who doesn't want to understand.

You are the simpleton here, Catch.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

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#196137
Dec 26, 2013
 

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Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Your reference is wrong - it uses a diluted definition.
Atheism, from the Greek a-theos ("no-god"), is the philosophical position that God doesn't exist. It is distinguished from agnosticism, the argument that it is impossible to know whether God exists or not (Academic American Encyclopedia).
Atheism, system of thought developed around the denial of God's existence. Atheism, so defined, first appeared during the Enlightenment, the age of reason (Random House Encyclopedia-1977).
Atheism (from the Greek a-, not, and theos, god) is the view that there are no gods.(Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy-1995).
Atheism is the doctrine that there is no God. Some atheists support this claim by arguments, but these arguments are usually directed against the Christian concept of God, and are largely irrelevant to other possible gods (Oxford Companion to Philosophy-1995).
Atheism (Greek, a-[private prefix]+ theos, god) is the view that there is no divine being, no God (Dictionary of Philosophy, Thomas Mautner, Editor-1996).
Atheism is the belief that God doesn't exist (The World Book Encyclopedia-1991).
Atheism, the critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or spiritual beings. Atheism is to be distinguished from agnosticism, which leaves open whether there is a god or not, professing to find the question unanswerable, for the atheist, the non-existence of god is a certainty (The New Encyclopedia Britannia-1993).
According to the most usual definition, an atheist is a person who maintains that there is no godů(rejects eccentric definitions of the word)(The Encyclopedia of Philosophy-1967).
Atheism is the doctrine that God does not exist, that belief in the existence of God is a false belief. The word God here refers to a divine being regarded as the independent creator of the world, a being superlatively powerful, wise and good (Encyclopedia of Religion-1987).
Atheism (Greek and Roman): Atheism is a dogmatic creed, consisting in the denial of every kind of supernatural power. Atheism has not often been seriously maintained at any period of civilized thought (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics-Vol II).
That's the Oxford English Dictionary, you quarter-wit.

It's the dictionary of reference for English and American.

"Encyclopedia of Philosophy"? Various Encyclopedias of Religion?

Can you not see the flaw in your presentation?

Here, contact the OED here: http://www.oed.com/

Tell 'em their definition is "diluted".

I'm sure they'll be mildly amused.

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#196138
Dec 26, 2013
 

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Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
Do you have a relevant question?
You're dodging. If you want to make the case that "survival of the fittest" and "humanity is superfluous" resulted in Hitler, the same exact case can be made for free-market capitalism. Same rationale either way.

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#196139
Dec 26, 2013
 

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HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>I agree in general, but please, "Hitler was a Christian" is doing the exact same thing we find odious in their game. Hitler used Christianity, as he masterfully exploited everything at his disposal, but nothing he did was in any way Christ-like, whether I believe in the Christ or not.
Just sayin'.......;)
Actually, Hitler was motivated in part by Christianity - his hate for it.

The Nuremberg documents prove he had plans in place to eradicate Christianity from Europe after he finished with the Jews.

Whether Hitler was an atheist is hard to nail down.

With Stalin, Lenin, and Marx, it's much easier.

Their atheism was a huge motivating force for mass murder.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#196140
Dec 26, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
Yes.[Hitler] was a master politician in a Christian populated country.
What do you think it would have been like for him in a country populated mostly by secular humanists - say the ones actively posting in this thread? How do you think we would have responded to Hitler's demagoguery? Do you think we would have elected and empowered him?

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#196141
Dec 26, 2013
 

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macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>That's the Oxford English Dictionary, you quarter-wit.
It's the dictionary of reference for English and American.
"Encyclopedia of Philosophy"? Various Encyclopedias of Religion?
Can you not see the flaw in your presentation?
Here, contact the OED here: http://www.oed.com/
Tell 'em their definition is "diluted".
I'm sure they'll be mildly amused.
The best reference for terms relating to philosophy and religion would be...what....I wonder....oh,....let me guess....

Maybe academic references in philosophy and religion?

The dilution of the term used in your reference can be easily traced to the writings of Anthony Flew, who attempted to move a watered-down version of "atheism" into the public discourse.

As the editor of the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy explained, Flew's efforts were directed at a rhetorical result - establishing "atheism" as a default position of "no belief".

Atheism means the belief that no god exists.

You rely on trickery. You're not clever enough, MacMucous.

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#196142
Dec 26, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
What do you think it would have been like for him in a country populated mostly by secular humanists - say the ones actively posting in this thread? How do you think we would have responded to Hitler's demagoguery? Do you think we would have elected and empowered him?
Absolutely.

He would've pandered to the secular humanists just like he pandered to the Christians. Master politicians are good at swaying crowds and giving public speeches.

He would've been just as convincing to you. He would've promised peace and security without religion and you people would've ate his shit to help make that happen.

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#196143
Dec 26, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:

Atheism has nothing to do with religions.
It's a belief that deities don't exist.

[QUOTE who="macumazahn"Wort h saying again, because some people just won't pay attention.
"Atheism:(noun):
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods." - OED.
[/QUOTE]

I think you misunderstand.

When I say "It's a belief that deities don't exist", I think you're reading this:

"It's a belief system that deities don't exist."

Atheism is a belief, unless you can show evidence that deities don't exist.

Can you?

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