Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258473 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: May 09

Location hidden

#195864 Dec 24, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Being atheists doesn't mean that we are not also other things. Some atheists are also gnostic atheists. They claim to know that gods do not exist. Some are also astrologers.Most are secular humanists. Some have even been Stalinists as well as atheists.
With each of these comes beliefs.
<quoted text>
His conclusion might prove that HE holds that belief,not that all atheists do, nor that that belief is essential to atheism or even present inmost cases.
<quoted text>
Such a belief constitutes an act of faith as much as claiming that vampires and leprechauns don't actually exist. We can feel in our bones that neither leprechauns, gods, nor vampires exist, but our basis for saying so is just the absence of expected evidence for them, which is only evidence of their absence,not proof.
<quoted text>
Right.
<quoted text>
Of course he had beliefs, but they were not called atheism and didn't derive from or depend on his atheism.
As I've said repeatedly, if your only criticism of atheism is actually a criticism of Stalinism, you have no criticism of atheism.
"The atheist position is not that the answer is no. It is that there is no reason to ask the question." - fukrot

“It's Time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

New Holland

#195866 Dec 24, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
You just can't face the truth. He was not an atheist.
LOL @ that.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#195867 Dec 24, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Unlike you Atheist who turn a blind eye to all the deaths by Communist Atheist.
I will not deny there have been deaths due to religion.
Now these numbers you are quoting is in question because I doubt anyone could count that high in those days.
Probably when they reported deaths on the battlefield it was like this:
General:“How many died?”
Corporal:“A sh*t load General.”
General:“A whole sh*t load? Or shy of a sh*t load or over a sh*t load?”
Corporal:“It was a sh*t load General. Just a sh*t load.”
You missed your calling as a cheesy, metaphor laden and poorly written fiction author.

It's just too bad the bible isn't accepting any additional books.

“It's Time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

New Holland

#195868 Dec 24, 2013
LuciFerr wrote:
<quoted text>
It influence's everyone's lives, hey thanks!
Happy hols Rosa :)
Merry Yuletide.
:-)

“It's Time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

New Holland

#195869 Dec 24, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Stalin killed for his atheistic belief.
He declared atheism "inseparable" from his communism.
Where's the mystery?
The mystery is that no matter how many times you told that Stalin was a COMMUNIST despot, you continue to blame atheism for his purges. That's your story and you're sticking to it.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195870 Dec 24, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Actually, I'm getting plenty out of this. I'm learning tolerance that I didn't have before, primarily directed at gays. The conversations I've had with several people here have opened my eyes and made me realize that I've been wrong and intolerant all these years. I'm doing what I can to change that. I've learned to tap into my "inner Jesus". I've also learned what fallacies are and how they operate in discussion and argument. I've also learned about control issues and how they are nothing but a detriment to relationships.
Great. I hope that I have helped a little there.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I've also learned that some atheists are good people that really care about freedom and justice and choice while others are militant ass holes that want nothing more than to slander Christianity and do what they can to help diminish the church and make Christians look like the worst people on the planet.
I'm guessing that you are referring to me in this sentence, since you have called me all of those things before. If so, I deny that I am militant or trying to make Christians look like the worst people on the planet.

Also, my criticism of Christianity would only be slander if it were unfounded. I have always given my reasons for posting such conclusions, and always in good faith.

Yes, I am a harsh critic of faith, Christian doctrine, the bible, the bible god, and the church, and consider them all to be of less than no value. They are destructive.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195871 Dec 24, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
You? Are you getting anything out of this? Be honest.
Be honest? Why wouldn't I be honest.

Yes. I get to exchange information - learn and teach. I also have benefited from hours of practice researching the Internet, organizing information, composing cogent arguments, and improving my writing skills.

I have enjoyed coming to know and fellowshipping with many bright and interesting people.

And even more valuable, I have gotten to examine and study faith and its effect on thought in a way not possible before. It is in these threads that my present understanding of religion matured to what it is today. I had long thought that Christianity wasn't for me, and had recognized that it had a negative side.

But it is on Topix that I came to understand the depth of the damage that the church does to both believers and unbelievers.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195872 Dec 24, 2013
Bongo wrote:
Im curious to know if you took a hundred kids and fed them the bible and atheist education, what would the percentages of faithful believers versus unbelievers or doubters be.
Did you mean an education in secular humanist values? There is no atheistic education. Books on atheism don't include any doctrine, because there is none. They would be about life as an atheist, or the argument for atheism, or the rise of unbelief and the concomitant decline in Christianity in the West, or some such topic.

But there isn't an atheistic doctrine, nor an atheistic metaphysics, nor an atheistic ethics. Atheists that advocate anything at all are going beyond their atheism when they do so, as I do when I advocate secular humanism.

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#195873 Dec 24, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
For Scar...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =7fOKXEcEEwsXX
https://www.youtube.com/watch...

“It's Time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

New Holland

#195874 Dec 24, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Be honest? Why wouldn't I be honest.
Yes. I get to exchange information - learn and teach. I also have benefited from hours of practice researching the Internet, organizing information, composing cogent arguments, and improving my writing skills.
I have enjoyed coming to know and fellowshipping with many bright and interesting people.
And even more valuable, I have gotten to examine and study faith and its effect on thought in a way not possible before. It is in these threads that my present understanding of religion matured to what it is today. I had long thought that Christianity wasn't for me, and had recognized that it had a negative side.
But it is on Topix that I came to understand the depth of the damage that the church does to both believers and unbelievers.
"There are two teams out there but only one of them is playing cricket."
- William Maldon Woodfull
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/woodfull-will...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodyline

If you want to know why I posted that one, it was a reference to some of the tactics used by "good Christians" on these threads.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#195876 Dec 24, 2013
TBC..

Cushing B. Hassell, History of the Church of God, Chapter XVII.
Concerning the Irish rebellion, John Temple's
True Impartial History of the Irish Rebellion of 1641, written in 1644, puts the number of victims at 300,000, but other
estimates are much smaller. Some estimates are larger:
In addition to the Jesuit or Catholic atrocities of this century already enumerated
with some particulars, they massacred 400 Protestants
at Grossoto, in Lombardy, July 19th, 1620; are said to have destroyed 400,000 Protestants in Ireland, in
1641, by outright murder, and cold, and hunger, and drowning; ...
--
Cushing B. Hassell, History of the Church of God, Chapter XVII.

One thousand years covers the crest of the persecutions
when from 50,000,000 to 150,000,000 martyrs died of the sword, at the stake, in dungeons, and of
starvation because of the confiscation of their earthly possessions.-- Bunch, Taylor, The Book of Daniel, 1950, p. 185.

And, O merciful Father in heaven, this does not include the millions of their own
people, and her enemies, which fell in her crusades, and wars, and massacres!
Here thirty millions and a half would be a moderate calculation! Thus, Rome
papal has hurried into eternity A HUNDRED MILLION OF THE HUMAN
RACE, by her bloody religion!

Let us look for a moment at the number of victims sacrificed on the altars of the
Christian Moloch:
--
1,000,000 perished during the early Arian schism; 1,000,000
during the Carthaginian struggle; 7,000,000 during the Saracen slaughters. In Spain 5,000,000 perished during the eight Crusades; 2,000,000 of Saxons and Scandinavians lost their lives in opposing the introduction of the blessings of
Christianity. 1,000,000 were destroyed in the Holy(?) Wars against the
Netherlands, Albigenses, Waldenses, and Huguenots. 30,000,000 Mexicans and
Peruvians were slaughtered ere they could be convinced of the beauties(?) of the
Christian creed. 9,000,000 were burned for witchcraft. Total,
56,000,000.
<quoted text>
http://www.noiseofthunder.com/storage/50%20mi...
****

Sure, christianity is all about love and hurts no one. Tell me another funny joke.

No wonder they accuse others of wanting to kill like they do, it's the only solution they seem to comprehend.

*watches to see if Bucky duck raises his made up number of alleged Atheist killers*

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195877 Dec 24, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I've heard the analogy of atheists killing in the name of atheism is akin to tall people killing in the name of tallness. Thoughts on that?
That's pithy, but not really very meaningful to me. Tallness isn't a mental state like theism and atheism are. Atheists killing in the name of atheism might be more akin to aleprechaunists killing in the name of their disbelief in leprechauns. If that sounds absurd to you, then you get it. You'd have to also believe something else to kill.

Leprechaunists, however, might kill because of their beliefs if they include a belief that leprechauns want them to kill. That's the difference between a belief and its absence. Beliefs might motivate us, but not their absence
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I think when you openly accuse any Christian that does wrong of wrong-doing in "the name of" Christianity but not saying the same towards atheist's wrong-doings is a double standard.
I know you do. If I presented a leprechaunist to you that killed because he thought leprechauns wanted him to do so, and an aleprechaunist that also killed, would you call it a double standard if I looked for another reason than aleprechaunism to explain the motivations of the second murderer?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
"Last century we tried godlessness on a grand scale and the effects were devastating: Nazism, Stalinism, Pol Pot-ery, mass murder, abortion and broken relationships - all promoted by state-imposed atheism…the illusion that we can build a better life without God." - Peter Jensen I agree.
I know you do.

Cultic, authoritarian ideolgies with either human or supernatural central personalities seem to be the problem to me. They are so willing to kill.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#195878 Dec 24, 2013
I'll leave it there for today folks, have to go clean up my brain, lest the infection takes.

Stay tuned for the death tolls on the chrislam wars, natives, slaves and even the past year.

Yes, religious lunatics are still killing for their various imagined 'gods'.

Happy Holidays :D

Religion Created (esp christian) Death Toll so far; 288 MILLION 076 THOUSAND and 700

(Whoa! Haven't even covered the big one yet.)

“What?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#195879 Dec 24, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =xYlcxBE5dh0XX
I went to the Madison Regatta last year in a RV. I beat up 5 men and none of them remembered it. One of them had a broken nose and rib. How many times can you say, "that's my bed"?

Drunk men don't understand how dangerous I am when they're drunk and they don't seem to remember when they're not. That's a big plus for me.

I enjoyed it. Fast boats and shit.

Hot girls as well...

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#195882 Dec 24, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, James Warren "Jim" Jones was an atheist. Self proclaimed.
"We didn't commit suicide; we committed an act of revolutionary suicide" -Jones
909 people followed him to their death.
Your Jesus did the same, did he not?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195883 Dec 24, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara Did he kill for Humanism?

[QUOTE who="IANS"]You tell me
RiversideRedneck wrote:
No. I want your side of it.
I tend to agree with you, but I don't know much about what Guevara believed except that he is said to have been a Marxist, and I only know what that means in the broadest terms. I haven't studied such things because I find them off-putting and largely irrelevant to me.

I am aware that something called Marxist humanism exists, but it involves Marxism, which makes it a distinct species from secular humanism. and I don't have much use for Marxism in state politics, so I haven't looked at it to see what it advocates, which may include killing. I also don't know if Guevara was a Marxist humanist.

Secular humanism has nothing to do with Marxism, Soviet Communism. Chinese Communism, Leninism, Maoism or Stalinism. In it's Affirmations, it advocates for democracy, egalitarianism, and personal political freedom.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195884 Dec 24, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Clearly he didn't say you have every reason to disrespect and abuse people of religion. And clearly you don't agree.
This is just faith and your church speaking through you. The evidence contradicts you. I do not disrespect or abuse you, for example - just some of the things you believe. I respect your willingness to learn and grow, your good natured manner in posting, and your willingness to admit that you were wrong when you think you have been.

Why would that be if you were correct. You are certainly a person of religion.

The people that I am disrespectful to and verbally abusive of are targeted not for their religious beliefs, but for their vile personalities and repulsive posting habits, and that's really only two people on this thread. Besides you, I have also not been disrespectful or abusive to Eagle or lightbeamrider, both very religious Christians. True, I have no respect for some things that are sacred to them, but that is a different thing. That is disrespect for an idea, not a person. I understand that many people cannot tell the difference or make the distinction.

I ask you from time to time if evidence matters to you, and this is why. As I said, the evidence clearly contradicts you. If I were what you say I am, I would be abusive to both of those people and you as well.

Does evidence matter, or will you cling to beliefs held in faith despite it?

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#195885 Dec 24, 2013
The Actual Death Toll for Stalin.

As opposed to Bucky duck's plagiarism from the local public toilet wall.

<quoted text>
Soviet Union, Stalin's regime (1924-53): 20,000,000 (highest number of deaths recorded)

There are basically two schools of thought when it comes to the number who died at Stalin's hands.

There's the "Why doesn't anyone realize that communism is the absolutely worst thing ever to hit the human race,
without exception, even worse than both world wars, the slave trade and bubonic plague all put together?" school,
and there's the "Come on, stop exaggerating. The truth is horrifying enough without you pulling numbers out of thin air" school.

The two schools are generally associated with the right and left wings of the political spectrum, and they often accuse each other of being blinded by prejudice,
stubbornly refusing to admit the truth, and maybe even having a hidden agenda. Also, both sides claim that recent access to former Soviet archives has proven that
their side is right.
<quoted text>

http://necrometrics.com/20c5m.htm#Stalin

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195886 Dec 25, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
Hey, IANS is my friend. The rumors of him being a murderous dictator are overblown.
Thanks, Buck, and Merry Christmas to you.

Yeah, I'm not much of a killer.

It's 2 AM now, and my pueblo has been celebrating the birth of a savior for the last two hours with bottle rockets, bands and shouting. I don't mind the noise for myself - I can sleep through it when I feel tired - but my dogs are frightened.

Yesterday, we watched Las Posadas (or pidiendo Posada, which roughly means requesting an inn), where groups of children walk or ride burros through the streets dressed as Joseph and Mary seeking a place to stay.. The ritual involves being turned away several times at prearranged homes, and finally, one home taking them in, which happens to be one across the street from us this year. There, they get a piñata to break open. This is what the breaking of the piñata means to local people:

• The seven points of the traditional star-shaped Christmas piñata represent the seven deadly sins.

• The candy in the piñata’s inner clay pot stands for the pleasures Satan offers man to attract him to the underworld.

• The blindfolded person attempting to break the piñata represents faith, which must be blind, and is guided only by the voices of others to destroy evil.

• The stick used to break the piñata is a symbol of Christian goodness.

• The breaking of the piñata symbolizes the triumph of good over evil.

• The shower of candy and fruit is indicative of the unknown joys and rewards which the good and faithful will receive in Heaven.

I can actually hear a live tuba now off in the distance, probably on the plaza or the church.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195887 Dec 25, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
Comes from my experimentation with pot "as an adult" and life experiences.
I'll bet that was like blowing pot smoke at a cat.
Dave Nelson wrote:
Merry Christmas, IANS.
Merry Christmas, Dave

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