Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 247201 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#195142 Dec 22, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =1cZUCH6KKt4XX
Sorry I couldn't view it because of my computer security.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#195143 Dec 22, 2013
LuciFerr wrote:
<quoted text>
We get that it's rape, we get that you approve of rape.
What we get is what you don’t get because if you hada got you wouldn’t be a standing there not getting, don’t ya see?

“That's just proof right there that us Haggens knows a heap more about some things than folks gives us credit for.”

Festus Haggen
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#195144 Dec 22, 2013
LuciFerr wrote:
<quoted text>
We get that it's rape, we get that you approve of rape.
Here’s the thing, you don’t understand a lot.

Dr. Galen `Doc` Adams:(Festus offers to buy Doc a beer with a silver dollar that he earned from shoeing horses in episode "Whelan`s Men".) Why don`t you take that money and invest it in something? Why don`t you do that?

Festus Haggen: Invest it in what?

Dr. Galen `Doc` Adams: There`s wonderful land values outside of Dodge. Now why don`t you go out there someplace, look around, and buy yourself a lot?
Festus Haggen: A lot of what?

Dr. Galen `Doc` Adams: A lot! A lot of land!

Festus Haggen: Well fiddle, I can`t afford to buy a lot of land. You probably could the way you`ve been a bilking and gouging...

Dr. Galen `Doc` Adams: Oh, hush up! I`m trying to help you, for heaven sakes. It don`t cost a whole lot to buy a little lot.

Festus Haggen: What do you mean it don`t cost a whole lot to buy a little, or a whole lot to buy a lot, what do you mean?

Dr. Galen `Doc` Adams: Well, I mean,... a little lot of land!

Festus Haggen: But there ain`t no such a thing. A little`s a little, and a lot`s a lot, there ain`t no little lot, or lot of little, don`t you see? Now you want that beer or don`t you?
Dr. Galen `Doc` Adams: No I`m... I`m all worn out.

Festus Haggen:(and as Doc walks away Festus Hollers) If you change your mind me and Newly will be over at the Longbranch having a whole lot of little beers.
(Chuckles and flips his silver dollar)

Festus Haggen: Now I`m buying.

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#195145 Dec 22, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
What we get is what you don’t get because if you hada got you wouldn’t be a standing there not getting, don’t ya see?
“That's just proof right there that us Haggens knows a heap more about some things than folks gives us credit for.”
Festus Haggen
God will F*ck you up

Oh, sinner, do not stray
From the straight and narrow way
For the Lord is surely watching what you do
If you approach the Devil's den
Turn round don't enter in
Lest the hand of the almighty fall on you.

He'll f*ck you up (he'll f*ck you up)
Yes, God will f*ck you up
If you dare to disobey his stern command.
Hell f*ck you up (he'll f*ck you up)
Don't you know he'll fuck you up
So you better do some prayin' while you can.

Long ago a man named Lot
Had a wife he thought was hot
But she could not stop her black and sinful ways.
You know it was her own damn fault
When God turned that b!tch to salt.
Thats the way he used to work back in those days:

He f*cked em up (he f*cked em up)
He really f*cked em up
When the people went and turned their backs on him
He can f*ck you up (he'll f*ck you up)
No sh!t he'll f*ck you up
Just like he f*cked the people up back then.

I used to have a friend named Ray
Who walked that evil way
He cursed and drank and broke his neighbors fence
You know Ray was full aware
That some sheep were over there
And he knew them in the Biblical sense.

God f*cked him up (he f*cked him up)
He went and f*cked Ray up
Went and paid him back for all his wicked sins.
He f*cked him up (he f*cked him up)
F*cked that boy completely up
Now he's married to a Presbyterian.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#195146 Dec 22, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
The controversy here is not so much same sex marriage and it has never been about same sex marriage. It’s about adopting children and raising children in non-traditional environments.
Children just want to be loved, Eagle.

The controversy is yours.
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
It’s about adopting children and raising children in non-traditional environments.
There are no traditional environments. Think outside your own box for once in you life.
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Have there been studies about the consequences of raising kids in homes of same sex partnerships?
Yes, there have been studies and you won't accept them because they don't conform to your archaic way of thinking.
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Now I know there are a lot of abusive and dysfunctional heterosexual marriages. In many cases it’s real bad.
It's real bad. I know the children of some of those.
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I’m not so sure same sex marriages will be any different in that respect.
I'm not either. What's your point?
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Talk to law enforcement in any large city and they will tell you there’s a hell of a lot of gay partners in abusive and dysfunctional relationships. My concern is for children being raised outside the traditional marriage between heterosexuals.
Heterosexual marriage is only "traditional" because you deny with laws any other form of marriage. You're scared shitless that your way of bullying people is coming to an end.
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
What will be the physiological outcome for these teens?
Do you even know what physiological means?
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Will teen suicide rates soar even higher than what they are today because of same sex marriages? I’m afraid children will be the ones to suffer even more than they already suffer in bad heterosexual marriages.
Write a self help book for teens. They're killing themselves at an alarming rate as it is now. Change is necessary and inevitable.

Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#195147 Dec 22, 2013
River Tam wrote:
Brown was ill prepared for the devastation that hit New Orleans. President Bush failed in not having a professional Emergency Manager with experience heading FEMA. It wasn’t all Brown’s fault as some like to believe.

The local government and State of Louisiana was also not properly prepared. Disaster preparedness is often not taken seriously until after the fact.

Complicating the incident was many of New Orleans residents were indigent. Not being able to have their own evacuation plan. Thousands of school buses were flooded that could have been used to evacuate the poor prior to the storm hitting.

http://www.snopes.com/katrina/photos/buses.as...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195148 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
What do you think of a philosophy that teaches one to divert her attention from this world to another one and from this life to the next one, to think of man as diseased with sin and capable of no good, to see animals as soulless meat bags put on earth to be dominated and exploited, and to think that the world he inhabits is corrupt, evil, getting worse every day, and fit for apocalyptic annihilation any day now? Is authentic spirituality possible given that world view?
Dave Nelson wrote:
Uh, that is the kind of philosophy that causes one to strive for more and evolve.
Yeah, that is EXACTLY what that philosophy did for the group that holds it. Striving to be more and evolving is what comes to mind when we think of Christianity and its worldview.

Yet another great insight from you, Dave.
Dave Nelson wrote:
The always looking for something better. How you strive to get off Tobacco Road. You have to look past the immediate for such to occur. You don't get those things by being a dope smoking intellectual.


There you go again with your anti-pot bias.

The problem with ending up on Tobacco Road addicted to tobacco yourself is that you really don't get to give life advice to anybody, do you?
Dave Nelson wrote:
BTW, since you are atheist you know animals are soulless meat bags. As are men. A major tenet of your "non-religion". You are less than consistent in your argumentation.
Please don't try to speak for me or other atheists. You don't know what we believe even after being told.
Dave Nelson wrote:
. Maybe that is because you just like to argue?
What is this post of yours if not content-free argumentation for the sake of arguing?
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#195149 Dec 22, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Children just want to be loved, Eagle.
The controversy is yours.
<quoted text>
There are no traditional environments. Think outside your own box for once in you life.
<quoted text>
Yes, there have been studies and you won't accept them because they don't conform to your archaic way of thinking.
<quoted text>
It's real bad. I know the children of some of those.
<quoted text>
I'm not either. What's your point?
<quoted text>
Heterosexual marriage is only "traditional" because you deny with laws any other form of marriage. You're scared shitless that your way of bullying people is coming to an end.
<quoted text>
Do you even know what physiological means?
<quoted text>
Write a self help book for teens. They're killing themselves at an alarming rate as it is now. Change is necessary and inevitable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =s9p5iyr5bXcXX
I would agree children want to be loved but they also want and need more than that.

They need a safe home environment and financial stability.

Need parents to make good choices from meal selection to handling finances.

They need to be raised in a good moral home with examples set.

They need rules and guidelines.

Need someone to tell them “No,” when they’re going down the wrong road.

They need parents who will talk to them and know who they are hanging around.

They need supervision until they are on their own.

They need their parents to be a coach and motivate them when necessary.

They need to be taken places and learn to enjoy the great outdoors.

Kids need more than love. They need the whole package.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#195150 Dec 22, 2013
LuciFerr wrote:
<quoted text>
God will F*ck you up
Now he's married to a Presbyterian.
People don’t need God to “F” them up.

They do a pretty good job of that without any help.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#195151 Dec 22, 2013
l love you all
BCNU

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#195152 Dec 22, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Brown was ill prepared for the devastation that hit New Orleans. President Bush failed in not having a professional Emergency Manager with experience heading FEMA. It wasn’t all Brown’s fault as some like to believe.
The local government and State of Louisiana was also not properly prepared. Disaster preparedness is often not taken seriously until after the fact.
Complicating the incident was many of New Orleans residents were indigent. Not being able to have their own evacuation plan. Thousands of school buses were flooded that could have been used to evacuate the poor prior to the storm hitting.
http://www.snopes.com/katrina/photos/buses.as...
I agree. It wasn't Bush's fault and it wasn't Brown's fault.

When you live below sea level you should take some necessary precautions.

I carry a razor blade with me at all times. I won't tell you where I keep it but it's hidden in plain sight. It's readily available to me even if I'm handcuffed. It will slice right through zip ties. I promise. I've seen it happen.

The problem with the aftermath of Katrina was a lack of governance. That's usually the case. When you vote for people that think like you, you forget the ones who don't.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195153 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Atheism, like marijuana, is responsible for no deaths. God beliefs can lead to murder, but the rejection of them cannot. Atheists that have murdered did not murder because they were atheists. Those were all religions with human gods. Totalitarian ideologies like Stalinism and Maoism and religions like Islam and Christianity are cults of personality that require worship and obeisance to a larger-than-life übermensch, human in one case, supernatural in the other. Besides requiring worship, they all employ terrorism, thought and information control techniques, and a requirement for submission and absolute obedience. Each feature long histories of genocide. Both the totalitarian regimes you named and religions are characterized by excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to the god or godlike personality, which is required, and whose dicta are treated as truths beyond debate.Members thoughts and behaviors are dictated, and shame, guilt, and threats are employed to control them. Whatever means are deemed necessary to achieve some larger than life goal are justified, leading initiates to do things that they would have considered reprehensible outside of the group. These are the values of Christianity, Stalinism, Islam, and Maoism. By contrast, most atheists are humanists who value reason, cooperation, freedom, peace, tolerance, negotiation, democracy, peace, egalitarianism, justice, compassion, individuality, autonomy, self-actualization, and political freedom. Christianity, Stalinism, Islam, and Maoism.are antithetical to all of those. You have no argument against atheism here, just one against absolutist ideologies and cults of personality. In fact, from the Affirmations of Humanism comes, "We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others."
Buck Crick wrote:
Bull shit. Totally. Atheism is not the rejection of god-beliefs. It has it's own god-belief - and many have been willing to kill to advance it.
We are talking about two different things. You know very well what I mean when I use the word "atheism" because I have told you, and it isn't what you described there. If you have to forcibly distort my argument to rebut it, then you must have no rebuttal for the argument I actually made
Buck Crick wrote:
This solidifies my insistence on understanding what atheism is - it is a belief.
Actually, you insist on not knowing what it is. You have been told repeatedly by atheists what it is they believe, and you are uninterested.
Buck Crick wrote:
. You don't get to blame Islam for Bin Laden and let atheism off the hook for Stalin.
Yes I do,

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195154 Dec 22, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
If one has a cursory familiarity with history, reads the Communist Manifesto, or Mein Kamf, you see atheism - front and center - as a means to an envisioned Utopia where man is freed from the shackles of theism.
Both of those works go far beyond atheism.
Buck Crick wrote:
Stalin stated it himself, plainly. Hitler killed for anti-theism. It was incompatible with his Darwinist motivation concerning race.
What do either of those have to do with atheism? How do you get from a rejection of unsupported god claims to killing? Atheism doesn't require a belief in Darwin's theory, which does not advocate murder anyway. Nor does it require anti-theism.
Buck Crick wrote:
Atheists murdered millions because they were atheists. And they murdered for atheism.
There is no evidence for that. In fact, the evidence contradicts that. Millions of atheists don't murder. Why is that? The answer is obvious: why would we? Our heads aren't filled with murderous ideologies like Stalin's and Hitler's were. Atheism has nothing to do with those.

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#195155 Dec 22, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>People don’t need God to “F” them up.

They do a pretty good job of that without any help.
I agree, people don't need a god.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#195156 Dec 22, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I would agree children want to be loved but they also want and need more than that.
They need a safe home environment and financial stability.
Need parents to make good choices from meal selection to handling finances.
They need to be raised in a good moral home with examples set.
They need rules and guidelines.
Need someone to tell them “No,” when they’re going down the wrong road.
They need parents who will talk to them and know who they are hanging around.
They need supervision until they are on their own.
They need their parents to be a coach and motivate them when necessary.
They need to be taken places and learn to enjoy the great outdoors.
Kids need more than love. They need the whole package.
I don't disagree with any of those points.

I can do that and at the same time love my wife.

Heterosexual people are the ones who produce children and then abandon them. I'm here for them. I always have been.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195157 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
It's also unimportant whether he was a Christian or not. What is most important is that the Christian clergy and a nation of Christian people supported him. What is important is that Christianity was not incompatible with Naziism. What is important is that if you are a demagogue, you can't do better than to have a mostly Christian nation to manipulate. What is important is that if you were a Jew in a concentration camp waiting for the tens of millions of church trained Christians in Nazi Germany to stand up and say, "This is wrong! Stop, Herr Hitler!" you were a dead Jew - not what Hitler actually believed. I for one would feel much safer living among a nation of people like the non-Christians in this thread than in a nation like the Christians here, especially if a demagogue became president. I would trust the unbelievers to be smarter and morally stronger. The unfortunate truth is that to get a Christian to consent to anything, including genocide, all you need to do is convince them that it is their god's will. That's the definition of moral goodness. Are you familiar with divine command theory? From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_command_t... : "Divine command theory is a meta-ethical theory which proposes that an action's status as morally good is equivalent to whether it is commanded by God. The theory asserts that what is moral is determined by what God commands, and that to be moral is to follow his commands."
Buck Crick wrote:
The Christian moms and dads of this country sent their sons off to die to defeat Hitler, and free the Jews, atheists, humanists, or whomever was oppressed. There are several cemeteries, here and in Europe, lined with white crosses to signify the act. They felt it was their Christian duty to humanity. It was a heavy sacrifice.
https://www.google.com/search...
I disagree that Christianity had anything to do with that. It was patriotism that energized them, the same patriotism that motivated non-Christians including Jews and atheists to do the same thing.
https://www.google.com.mx/search...

Christianity by itself is effete, as we saw with the German people themselves, who were overwhelmingly Christian, their military, and their Christian clergy.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195158 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
That's a powerful post, Buck. You have more cachet with the Christians than we atheists. I'm a little confused about where you stand regarding organized religion. Is it a net positive or net negative in your estimation? If a net negative, do you see any positives to organized religion, even if they are more than offset by the negatives. The usual positives ascribed to Christianity is that it reinforces good moral values and is an important source of charity to the needy. Would you agree with either of those claims, and would you add any to that list?. Would you consider the world a better or worse place if the Christian church just evaporated away? How about Islam? Do you consider your private beliefs religion?
Buck Crick wrote:
I believe in a fair fight, doc. Be it with fists or with words. I think religion is a net negative. But I resist the denial of the positives, because they are important. I think the world would be better off if all organized religion disbanded. My private beliefs are not religious. I profess spirituality. I believe there is only one sin - unkindness. I believe we continue after physical death, in some way, but I do not fully understand it. I believe in that continuation, the only thing about the present life that matters is what we do for someone else. When I do something bad to another, I feel bad. When I do something kind, I feel good. I think that connects me to things outside me.
OK, thanks for that, Buck.

You didn't answer this part of my post:

"The usual positives ascribed to Christianity is that it reinforces good moral values and is an important source of charity to the needy. Would you agree with either of those claims, and would you add any to that list?."

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195159 Dec 22, 2013
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
Chris Clearwater wrote:
Thank you. You do get to the heart of it. I'm not outraged nor have you injured me or my church. I will say this might be a pointless discussion but I'll try. From my pov saying a person is Christian doesn't make it so. God states this as well.(Matthew 7:21-23) I've been reading some commentaries of late on many of the faith that were killed by the established church. Many here in this forum would no doubt call all of those people Christian, I wouldn't. Nothing new under the sun. Hate and murder have been around since the 2nd generation of man. People will always try to give an excuse. God knows who belongs to Him. Just speaking for me and my wife but we are thankful to be part of the faith, no going back.
OK, and thank you, too.

You are correct that we define Christian differently. We have to.

You say that, "God knows who belongs to Him." Would you agree that from a believer's perspective, a Christian is whoever your god says it is, meaning those who will get into heaven, and that those who will be rejected were not Christians?

If so, two things:

[1] You can see why an unbeliever cannot use that definition.

[2] You can't tell who is a Christian, yourself included, since you don't know who will be found acceptable on Judgment Day,

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#195160 Dec 22, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
More encoprensis. Or maybe even scatolia.
http://allnurses.com/geriatric-nurses-ltc/cop...
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/scatolia Scatolia was a better answer to Catcher's post, actually.
Scatolia? Isn't he's on the US Supreme Court?

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#195161 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Scatolia? Isn't he's on the US Supreme Court?
He sits right next to Dread Pirate Roberts.

Kennedy born 1936

Ginsberg born 1933

Breyer born 1938

Fuckme. I was born in 1993.

Ginsberg was alive 60 years before I sucked my first tit !!!!

Why do I know more than her?

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