Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 257121 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#195053 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a powerful post, Buck. You have more cachet with the Christians than we atheists.
I'm a little confused about where you stand regarding organized religion. Is it a net positive or net negative in your estimation?
If a net negative, do you see any positives to organized religion, even if they are more than offset by the negatives. The usual positives ascribed to Christianity is that it reinforces good moral values and is an important source of charity to the needy. Would you agree with either of those claims, and would you add any to that list?.
Would you consider the world a better or worse place if the Christian church just evaporated away? How about Islam?
Do you consider your private beliefs religion?
I believe in a fair fight, doc. Be it with fists or with words.

I think religion is a net negative. But I resist the denial of the positives, because they are important.

I think the world would be better off if all organized religion disbanded.

My private beliefs are not religious. I profess spirituality.

I believe there is only one sin - unkindness. I believe we continue after physical death, in some way, but I do not fully understand it.

I believe in that continuation, the only thing about the present life that matters is what we do for someone else.

When I do something bad to another, I feel bad. When I do something kind, I feel good.

I think that connects me to things outside me.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#195054 Dec 22, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
The God belief is the champion of mass murder. Just look at what they worship. A deity who killed every human on the planet with the exception of one man's family according to their "good" book.
What a wonderful example to follow.
If that happened as you state it, God killed them. Not a god-belief.

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Safety Harbor, FL

#195055 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know if I'm the poster you are thinking of now, but that is my opinion, and I have stated it in these threads.
<quoted text>
What Juice (LuciFerr to you) said was, "if life was fair, we would be burning them on stakes or beating their children for not being gay."
Humanism doesn't advocate revenge, nor did Juice.
Nevertheless, slightly modified, the essence of her point is valid. It would be just to treat Christians as they have treated others, like gays and atheists. For example, it would be just if popular opinion changed so much that it was considered shameful and a moral failing to be a Christian, and many Christians chose to be closeted because of it.
It would also be just to redefine marriage as between a man and a man or a woman and a woman, and tell you that you had equal rights - you were free to marry your own gender.
I don't expect you to agree. I expect you to be outraged and feel injured by the comment.
Should we be just, or should we be merciful? I say the latter. Why? Because my humanist values are better than your church's. For example, I actually try to live the Golden Rule, not merely give it lip service. Nobody wants to be treated the way it treats gays and atheists.
Thank you. You do get to the heart of it. I'm not outraged nor have you injured me or my church. I will say this might be a pointless discussion but I'll try. From my pov saying a person is Christian doesn't make it so. God states this as well.(Matthew 7:21-23) I've been reading some commentaries of late on many of the faith that were killed by the established church. Many here in this forum would no doubt call all of those people Christian, I wouldn't. Nothing new under the sun. Hate and murder have been around since the 2nd generation of man. People will always try to give an excuse. God knows who belongs to Him. Just speaking for me and my wife but we are thankful to be part of the faith, no going back.

“It's Time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

New Holland

#195056 Dec 22, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't smear Christians.
No need.
They smear themselves enough.
It's called encoprensis.
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.c...
http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Encopresi...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#195057 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Why? The evidence contradicts that. Almost every atheist repudiates those people and their values.
Almost every Christian, however, defends the church and its values.
Almost every Christian repudiates the Inquisition and the witch trials.

The RCC even apologized for most of their atrocities.

Not that that means much.

A few years back, they even admitted Galileo was right.

“It's Time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

New Holland

#195059 Dec 22, 2013
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> You always post the truth about yourself. Youre a desperate troll with no evidence and you lie about God. The billions of faithful have evidence and put their money where their faith is. They do a lot of good works, notwithstanding any problems due to the human condition.
Soo...what good works have YOU done lately, Bongo the drongo.

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#195060 Dec 22, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheists murdered millions because they were atheists. And they murdered for atheism.
The phony attempts at a double standard does not help the cause.
Where do have evidence that they killed "in the name of atheism"?

As opposed to the Christ-crusaders killed in the name of God!

Pol Pot, Mao, and Stalin killed because they were evil dictators.
They killed for power. They also happened to be atheists. So what?

You can't say atheism was solely responsible. Just look at the Netherlands
and other secular countries such as Japan today. Much lower crime rates
than the more religious ones.

“It's Time. . .”

Since: Jun 13

New Holland

#195061 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
LOL. You have got to be one of the most repulsive people on Topix. You contribute nothing better than these pieces of verbal stool that you crap down your leg and litter the thread with.
More encoprensis. Or maybe even scatolia.
http://allnurses.com/geriatric-nurses-ltc/cop...
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/scatolia

Scatolia was a better answer to Catcher's post, actually.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#195062 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
It's also unimportant whether he was a Christian or not. What is most important is that the Christian clergy and a nation of Christian people supported him. What is important is that Christianity was not incompatible with Naziism. What is important is that if you are a demagogue, you can't do better than to have a mostly Christian nation to manipulate. What is important is that if you were a Jew in a concentration camp waiting for the tens of millions of church trained Christians in Nazi Germany to stand up and say, "This is wrong! Stop, Herr Hitler!" you were a dead Jew - not what Hitler actually believed.
I for one would feel much safer living among a nation of people like the non-Christians in this thread than in a nation like the Christians here, especially if a demagogue became president. I would trust the unbelievers to be smarter and morally stronger. The unfortunate truth is that to get a Christian to consent to anything, including genocide, all you need to do is convince them that it is their god's will. That's the definition of moral goodness.
Are you familiar with divine command theory? From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_command_t... : "Divine command theory is a meta-ethical theory which proposes that an action's status as morally good is equivalent to whether it is commanded by God. The theory asserts that what is moral is determined by what God commands, and that to be moral is to follow his commands."
If it's unimportant whether Hitler was a Christian, or hated Christianity, atheists should stop bringing it up, and I wouldn't have to prove it was the latter.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#195063 Dec 22, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. every now and then, someone comes along that inspires the imagination for the journey each of us takes. Recently it was Nelson Mandela. Then there's Buddha, Confucius and, yes, a man called Jesus ..

.
Hey. You left out Buck.

“Game Over”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#195064 Dec 22, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
If that happened as you state it, God killed them. Not a god-belief.
And if the things you state happened, then Stalin or Pol Pot or Mao killed them. Not a belief.

“Game Over”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#195065 Dec 22, 2013
Chris Clearwater wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you. You do get to the heart of it. I'm not outraged nor have you injured me or my church. I will say this might be a pointless discussion but I'll try. From my pov saying a person is Christian doesn't make it so. God states this as well.(Matthew 7:21-23) I've been reading some commentaries of late on many of the faith that were killed by the established church. Many here in this forum would no doubt call all of those people Christian, I wouldn't. Nothing new under the sun. Hate and murder have been around since the 2nd generation of man. People will always try to give an excuse. God knows who belongs to Him. Just speaking for me and my wife but we are thankful to be part of the faith, no going back.
Not all murders are the result of hate and not all hate results in murder.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#195066 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Good example. Here's another:
"Lipophobicity, also sometimes called lipophobia (from the Greek lipos "fat" and phobos "fear"), is a chemical property of chemical compounds which means "fat rejection", literally "fear of fat". Lipophobic compounds are those not soluble in lipids or other non-polar solvents. From the other point of view, they do not absorb fats."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipophobicity
Are you familiar with the variety of semantic fallacy called the root fallacy? From http://dradney.wordpress.com/2010/04/22/word-...
"The Root Fallacy: presupposes that every word actually has a meaning bound up with its shape or its components. That is, the meaning of a word is determined by its etymology. This fallacy also relates to finding the meaning of a word by dissecting the meaning of each of its parts and then defining it as the sum of the parts."
If interested, you can look at http://kenschenck.com/wordbenefits.html for a cursory overview of the various types of semantic fallacies - the root fallacy, the etymological fallacy, the one-meaning fallacy, the lexical fallacy, and the word-concept fallacy.
Etymology is the most legitimate technique for understanding word meanings.

If a word means something other than the sum of its parts, that is part of its etymology.

In the case of homophobia, it is a concocted word for use as a slur, and it means nothing.

It is a relatively new term, and there is no fallacy in interpreting its meaning by its roots.

From Wiki:

.[11] Coined by George Weinberg, a psychologist, in the 1960s,[12] the term homophobia is a blend[13][14][15] of (1) the word homosexual, itself a mix of neo-classical morphemes, and (2) phobia from the Greek &#966;&#972;&#946; &#959;&#962;, Phóbos, meaning "fear" or "morbid fear". Weinberg is credited as the first person to have used the term in speech.[11]

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#195067 Dec 22, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe in a fair fight, doc. Be it with fists or with words.
I think religion is a net negative. But I resist the denial of the positives, because they are important.
I think the world would be better off if all organized religion disbanded.
My private beliefs are not religious. I profess spirituality.
I believe there is only one sin - unkindness. I believe we continue after physical death, in some way, but I do not fully understand it.
I believe in that continuation, the only thing about the present life that matters is what we do for someone else.
When I do something bad to another, I feel bad. When I do something kind, I feel good.
I think that connects me to things outside me.
If you disbanded all organized religions then you will kill the seed of spirituality. I doubt a secular state will educate in such things.

Organized anythings get corrupted over time. Religion gets corrupted and people vote with their feet.

You just have to prevent an official state religion, and that includes "secular humanism" and "progressive liberalism". They already have priests ready to move in lead the faithful, and punish the miscreants.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#195068 Dec 22, 2013
UndefeatedAtheist wrote:
<quoted text>
Where do have evidence that they killed "in the name of atheism"?
As opposed to the Christ-crusaders killed in the name of God!
Pol Pot, Mao, and Stalin killed because they were evil dictators.
They killed for power. They also happened to be atheists. So what?
You can't say atheism was solely responsible. Just look at the Netherlands
and other secular countries such as Japan today. Much lower crime rates
than the more religious ones.
Pott, Mao, and Stalin killed for advancement of a society without the shackles of theism.

They were atheists, and killed for atheism.

Pott particularly liked killing the handicapped - "handicapped" to him meant children who wore eyeglasses.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#195069 Dec 22, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you like men who wear girly Sailor Moon costumes with no panties underneath, sir?
I bet you do.
Do you keep the panties in your basement?
I bet you do.
Maybe you would like to join the alice on Seattle's watch list?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#195070 Dec 22, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
And if the things you state happened, then Stalin or Pol Pot or Mao killed them. Not a belief.
They both killed for advancement of a belief.

The atheists get the nod for doing it faster, more ruthlessly, and in larger numbers.

I'm not the one who brought it up.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#195072 Dec 22, 2013
Consider the king who has two bodyguards. Each guard has a unique skill set. For the king, this means that he is protected from a broader range of attacks than he would be if he were protected by only one guard. Most of the time, the guards can work together to protect the king. Sometimes, however, the guards differ about how best to protect the king. If neither are able to compromise, they compete to protect the king. The king is less protected while his guards are divided.

Evolution has given humans a mind capable of internal competition. We tend to be at our best when our entire mind is in agreement. When we are at war with ourselves, a struggle called cognitive dissonance, we can't live up to our potential.

Cognitive dissonance is a great tool to have. The discomfort it causes is a sign that something isn't right. We're capable of believing anything, but as soon as our mind is exposed to the efficacy of skepticism, part of our mind cannot deny it's value.

This becomes a problem for anyone who has beliefs that are justified by faith. Exposure to information which contradicts those beliefs make its way into the mind, adding to cognitive dissonance, which increases the psychological discomfort of the internal struggle. The part of the mind that needs to keep the faith is forced to engage in drastic measures. A kind of quarantine can go into effect, eventually divorcing a person from their ability to critically evaluate information.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#195073 Dec 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
If you disbanded all organized religions then you will kill the seed of spirituality. I doubt a secular state will educate in such things.
Organized anythings get corrupted over time. Religion gets corrupted and people vote with their feet.
You just have to prevent an official state religion, and that includes "secular humanism" and "progressive liberalism". They already have priests ready to move in lead the faithful, and punish the miscreants.
Our disagreement is minor, I think.

For myself, I found God and spirituality when I abandoned religion.

I called out silently when I was at the point of taking my own life, thinking my death would be better for those around me. I had failed at all points, and every sign I looked to had failed me. I was faced with a difficult choice of two alternatives, and both would hurt those I loved.

I had the nerve to pull the trigger. I cried out to the things I was told to believe in. No answer came back. I knocked and knocked on the door. I beat my head against it.

The energy in my heart said "It's in you, Buck".

I was pushing at a door, but found it opened inward, and easily.

“Game Over”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#195074 Dec 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
If you disbanded all organized religions then you will kill the seed of spirituality. I doubt a secular state will educate in such things.
Organized anythings get corrupted over time. Religion gets corrupted and people vote with their feet.
You just have to prevent an official state religion, and that includes "secular humanism" and "progressive liberalism". They already have priests ready to move in lead the faithful, and punish the miscreants.
I vote with my hands.

I tried writing with my toes once but it was illegible.

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