Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258476 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#187166 Nov 25, 2013
Thinking wrote:
95 years after Cantor's death, Buck still can't grasp the hierarchies of infinities.
<quoted text>
Nothing is infinite, BakedLegumes.

It is a theoretical concept used as a tool, and has no basis in matter.

David Hilbert - "The true infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought. The role that remains for the infinite is solely that of an idea."

Poincare - "Actual infinity does not exist. What we call infinite is only the endless possibility of creating new objects no matter how many exist already"

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#187167 Nov 25, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
And when you've spent over 2000 years looking for evidence, and there's STILL no evidence AND the only offering of evidence (the bible) is proven false, even after claiming itself to be true, THAT'S pretty solid evidence of absence.
But you already knew that.
That's why you bailed on Jesus and defected to "The Designer".
Jesus is NOT going to be pleased with you.
No, it isn't.

If evidence is absent, there is no evidence.

If evidence is not absent, as in "present", then evidence cannot be absent.

Evidence cannot be both absent and present.

I'm on solid ground with that proposition.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#187168 Nov 25, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
And you sound like a pig with its nuts in a crack.
That made no sense at all.

Can you write in any languages besides Gibberish and Babble ?

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#187169 Nov 25, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
People can make the claim about god because they are not claiming god is matter.
You are making a claim for matter, that it existed.
If matter existed, it had electrons in motion.
What caused this? And when?
God doesn't matter.

OK

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Fremont, CA

#187170 Nov 25, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't be stupid. Of course emotions can be measured and analyzed by science.
Why don't you stop overreaching your knowledge?
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh!
What a great surprise!!

Welcome back, now all we need is Double Fine and we can have a reunion.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#187171 Nov 25, 2013
Thinking wrote:
So what does E=mc^2 mean to you?
<quoted text>
The correct portion of marshmallows and walnuts to make rocky road.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#187172 Nov 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Emotions haven't been.........proven yet.
If you stand back and look at it, that a rather odd thing to say about something that virtually everybody accepts as fact based on direct personal experience. Can anything be proven beyond that?

Has the existence of sunshine been proven yet? I know that I experience it as surely as I do emotion, but I can't show you my experience. I have to ask you to experience it yourself, just like emotion.

And how do you relate this to your god belief? Isn't that why you are discussing things that are real but can't be proven?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#187173 Nov 25, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Well at least you have learned something then.
Why have you chosen Shaun Bean, a grand Yorkshire man as your avatar? I thought you had a downer on the Brits or is it just those on topix who disagree with you?
He became a familiar face in the States as Ned Stark on Game of Thrones, whose character was pretty heroic as I recall - a man of loyalty and integrity that was executed unfairly. Was that show seen in the UK? Did you see it?
Thinking

Merthyr Tydfil, UK

#187174 Nov 25, 2013
I studied infinite dimensional Hilbert spaces which are used to analyse real world problems.

In order to do that, I didn't have to worship Hilbert unquestioningly like you do. You've got a thing about Hilbert.
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing is infinite, BakedLegumes.
It is a theoretical concept used as a tool, and has no basis in matter.
David Hilbert - "The true infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought. The role that remains for the infinite is solely that of an idea."
Poincare - "Actual infinity does not exist. What we call infinite is only the endless possibility of creating new objects no matter how many exist already"

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#187175 Nov 25, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>No, it isn't.

If evidence is absent, there is no evidence.

If evidence is not absent, as in "present", then evidence cannot be absent.

Evidence cannot be both absent and present.

I'm on solid ground with that proposition.
Hope you're wearing your muck boots.
Thinking

Merthyr Tydfil, UK

#187176 Nov 25, 2013
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

But I'd far rather you kept posting. Your posts are a great incentive for non belief.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
The correct portion of marshmallows and walnuts to make rocky road.
Thinking

Merthyr Tydfil, UK

#187177 Nov 25, 2013
It's part funded by the GB and NI government because much of it is filmed in Northern Ireland. We get it to see it on Sky Atlantic pretty much as soon as HBO do.

I upgraded my Sky+ box to 2TB recently and am looking to legitimately download Series 3 again ASAP.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
He became a familiar face in the States as Ned Stark on Game of Thrones, whose character was pretty heroic as I recall - a man of loyalty and integrity that was executed unfairly. Was that show seen in the UK? Did you see it?

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#187178 Nov 25, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
If you stand back and look at it, that a rather odd thing to say about something that virtually everybody accepts as fact based on direct personal experience. Can anything be proven beyond that?
Has the existence of sunshine been proven yet? I know that I experience it as surely as I do emotion, but I can't show you my experience. I have to ask you to experience it yourself, just like emotion.
And how do you relate this to your god belief? Isn't that why you are discussing things that are real but can't be proven?
It relates to God because billions of people throughout human history have experienced God, He's as real to us as your "experience the sunshine" analogy.

Not everything is proven by science.

I believe not everything can be proven by science.

You?

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#187179 Nov 25, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
He became a familiar face in the States as Ned Stark on Game of Thrones, whose character was pretty heroic as I recall - a man of loyalty and integrity that was executed unfairly. Was that show seen in the UK? Did you see it?
Have you see the "BadLipReading" of it?

Oh, so funny.

http://youtu.be/5Krz-dyD-UQ

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#187180 Nov 25, 2013
Thinking wrote:
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."
But I'd far rather you kept posting. Your posts are a great incentive for non belief.
<quoted text>
Oh, so you're just a follower.

Good to know.

So much for freethinking, eh?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#187181 Nov 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Emotions haven't been.........proven yet
Thinkingk wrote:
Wrong. They exist.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
So does God. Without proof. Imagine that.
Then that was your argument.

I think the fact that emotions are universally agreed to exist but not gods makes them seem like different kinds of things. Do you recall me asking Dave Nelson about how we can know when people are reporting something with a material referent and when they are experiencing an illusion? I used a hypothetical military experience Afghanistan as the starting point.

Unfortunately, Dave isn't as interested in the ideas of others or the exchange of information with them as much as he likes reciting his poems using scientific term, and wouldn't cooperate. Not surprisingly, the wheels came off of the exercise after several posts had been exchanged with no progress being made, so I postponed the discussion until somebody interested in the subject came along. Perhaps that is you.

Do you recall the story and the problem? I'll restate it in case you didn't, or don't recall it:

You and the rest of your ten man detail are on maneuvers in an Afghani desert when an explosion kills three of your squad, and leaves you blind and limping.

Two three-man details leave you and go in opposite directions in search of water. They each return to you claiming that they have seen water in the distance, are planning to go to the water, and will help you get there with them since you are not expected to survive long enough for them to return with water for you.

Both groups swear that they have seen water, but it's very hot out, they're dehydrated, and you realize that one or both groups might be seeing things - a mirage.

Which will you follow, and how can you decide? In other words, is there a way to decide when a group of people claim to see something whether they actually do or not? How can you decide which one is describing reality?

======

This problem deals more with experiences of physical objects outside of the body than with things like gods and emotions, but the discussion will be relevant to them all.

To bring adapt it to a subjective experience, lets add this exercise:

I used to ask myself, "How can I tell if my god blindness is like color blindness – blindness to something that is really there - or if the claims of seeing a god were like the paranoid's claims seeing danger that isn’t there?"

Why do the colorblind believe that the rest of us see color, but the non-paranoid don't believe the paranoids? What's is the essential difference?

The answers to all of these things are related.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#187182 Nov 25, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
That made no sense at all.
Can you write in any languages besides Gibberish and Babble ?
I am sorry, BenAssFucked.

Since you need it broken down simpler, I am happy to oblige.

You see, when a pig gets its testicles wedged in a crack, say, between the boards on the side of a barn, and tries to pull them out, it lets out a squealing sound.

Thus, I am comparing what you say to that sound.

I hope this is helpful.
Thinking

Merthyr Tydfil, UK

#187183 Nov 25, 2013
Not at all - I advised you to keep posting your inane dribbling.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, so you're just a follower.
Good to know.
So much for freethinking, eh?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#187184 Nov 25, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>

What have you been smoking? There is no evidence of any sort for a god.
Rational atheists don't even make that claim.

They argue that the evidence is not compelling.

But rationality is not expected of you, so carry on.

RiversideRedneck

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#187185 Nov 25, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Then that was your argument.
I think the fact that emotions are universally agreed to exist but not gods makes them seem like different kinds of things.


But they're not seen any universal way. It seems that so many people see emotions in a different way. Some people fear love, can you imagine that? Some people like you and I love love, that's easier for someone like you or me to imagine.

The only thing is set in stone about emotions is that most people have them or experience them. But not everybody experiences all emotions.

Why is there a jealous type? Why is there a moody type? We don't have answers to those questions. We just know it happens.


Do you recall me asking Dave Nelson about how we can know when people are reporting something with a material referent and when they are experiencing an illusion? I used a hypothetical military experience Afghanistan as the starting point.
(Edited for space) How can you decide which one is describing reality?
That's an interesting problem. A problem that does not have a definitive answer. I suppose you would just have to take it on faith, on trust. You'd have to ask yourself which group, or which person, you trust more.

Then you'll have your answer.
This problem deals more with experiences of physical objects outside of the body than with things like gods and emotions, but the discussion will be relevant to them all.
To bring adapt it to a subjective experience, lets add this exercise:
I used to ask myself, "How can I tell if my god blindness is like color blindness – blindness to something that is really there - or if the claims of seeing a god were like the paranoid's claims seeing danger that isn’t there?"
Why do the colorblind believe that the rest of us see color, but the non-paranoid don't believe the paranoids? What's is the essential difference?
The answers to all of these things are related.
Another interesting question. You say that you used to ask yourself that question, why don't you any more?

But it's an interesting and apt analogy, comparing color blindness to God blindness. Care to elaborate on it? I'd like to hear more.

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