Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 257121 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#187067 Nov 25, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
Yes, the brain can be monitored. This is a highly-developed science. Maybe you would wish to explain, then, how this man's brain shut down with nothing to monitor, yet he emoted, experienced, and manufactured memory. Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Near-Death Experience and Journey into the Afterlife by Dr. Eben Alexander
Dr. Alexander has been the subject of discussion by both Sam Harris and Bill Maher, both of which I believe you have lambasted in the past. The episode of Maher's <
> included Dr, Lawrence Krauss on the panel, who chimes in with his opinion on the realness of hallucinogenic experiences.

All three men were in agreement, and none was willing to accept Alexander's interpretation of his experience during a severe episode of meningitis as supernatural or indicative of the other claims he made which included that his neocortex had shut down completely, that the experience constituted proof of mind existing independently of brain, that it was an experience of an afterlife which included angels, and that it was proof of heaven - the title of his bestselling book.

Here are some quotes:

Alexander: "My synapses — the spaces between the neurons of the brain that support the electrochemical activity that makes the brain function—were not simply compromised during my experience. They were stopped. Only isolated pockets of deep cortical neurons were still sputtering, but no broad networks capable of generating anything like what we call “consciousness.”... My doctors have told me that according to all the brain tests they were doing, there was no way that any of the functions including vision, hearing, emotion, memory, language, or logic could possibly have been intact ... my experience ... supplies a definitive new form of evidence that consciousness can exist beyond the body."
http://www.newsweek.com/science-heaven-63823

"I was a speck on a beautiful butterfly wing; millions of other butterflies around us. We were flying through blooming flowers, blossoms on trees ... and above there were these arcs of silver and gold light and beautiful hymns coming down from them. Indescribably gorgeous hymns. I later came to call them “angels,” those arcs of light in the sky. I think that word is probably fairly accurate ... Then we went out of this universe. I remember just seeing everything receding and initially I felt as if my awareness was in an infinite black void. It was very comforting."
http://ndestories.org/dr-eben-alexander/

Sam Harris, a neuroscientist, which is different from a neurosurgeon, offers this criticism, which specifically addresses the monitoring to which you referred, including why it was inadequate to support the claim that the neocortex had shut down:

Harris: "Everything that Alexander describes ... has been reported by DMT users ... Does Alexander know that DMT already exists in the brain as a neurotransmitter? Did his brain experience a surge of DMT release during his coma?... similar experiences can be had with ketamine, which is a surgical anesthetic that is occasionally used to protect a traumatized brain. Did Alexander by any chance receive ketamine while in the hospital?... His assertion that psychedelics like DMT and ketamine “do not explain the kind of clarity, the rich interactivity, the layer upon layer of understanding” he experienced is perhaps the most amazing thing he has said since he returned from heaven. Such compounds are universally understood to do the job ... "CT scans and neurological examinations” can’t determine neuronal inactivity—in the cortex or anywhere else. Alexander makes no reference to functional data that might have been acquired by fMRI, PET, or EEG—nor does he seem to realize that only this sort of evidence could support his case.
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/this-must-...

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#187068 Nov 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I know #5 is from Hamlet
"5. What a piece of work is a man"
I learned that from Star Trek...
Well at least you have learned something then.

Why have you chosen Shaun Bean, a grand Yorkshire man as your avatar? I thought you had a downer on the Brits or is it just those on topix who disagree with you?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#187069 Nov 25, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Another is women.
Indeed...

God came to Eve to pass on some news. "I've got some good news and some bad news," God said.
Eve looked at God and said, "Well, give me the good news first."

Smiling, God explained, "I've got two new organs for you. One is called a brain. It will allow you to be very intelligent, create new things and have intelligent conversations with Adam. The other organ I have for you is called a vagina. It will allow you to reproduce your now intelligent life form and populate this planet. Adam will be very happy that you now have this organ to give him children."

Eve, very excited, exclaimed, "These are great gifts you have given to me. What could possibly be bad news after such great tidings?"

God looked upon Eve and said with great sorrow, "The bad news is that when I created you, I only gave you enough blood to operate one of these organs at a time. While you're bleeding through one of them every 28 days, the other will remain useless."
Thinking

Merthyr Tydfil, UK

#187070 Nov 25, 2013
Other violent faiths are available.
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
You must be christian to consider violence so funny.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#187071 Nov 25, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
You keep repeating this lie, as if by repeating it, you think the lie will magically become not-a-lie.
The very epitome of stupid-- that describes you.
That, and obsessive-compulsive disorder.
No **wonder** you keep getting tossed in jail...
Wow you certainly have our friendly neighbourhood buck weighed up.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#187072 Nov 25, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, you believe there is a difference
Not mine I have no intellectual right over the equation and besides it’s already out there ensuring that you can post on topix, turn the light on at night and actually exist in this universe. Just because you choose to ignore the known facts is your problem
And you claim you know a god exists but you have never – ever proven that a god exists. Don’t worry thought, no one has succeeded in several thousand years so you are not alone in your failure.
See also http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/G...
“In short, empirical data and the theories that successfully describe those data indicate that the universe did not come about by a purposeful creation. Based on our best current scientific knowledge, we conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that a God who is the highly intelligent and powerful supernatural creator of the physical universe does not exist.”
Uh-huh...

So your little 'E=MC2 disproves god' is a total bowl of bullshit.

You could've just said that.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#187073 Nov 25, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope more like hypocritical
Like all the religious do… well done
I have a better idea, lets not, I don’t trust you with a gun and definitely would not trust you pIssed.
You have a good instinct.

Cowardly, but it may save you some day.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#187074 Nov 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed...
God came to Eve to pass on some news. "I've got some good news and some bad news," God said.
Eve looked at God and said, "Well, give me the good news first."
Smiling, God explained, "I've got two new organs for you. One is called a brain. It will allow you to be very intelligent, create new things and have intelligent conversations with Adam. The other organ I have for you is called a vagina. It will allow you to reproduce your now intelligent life form and populate this planet. Adam will be very happy that you now have this organ to give him children."
Eve, very excited, exclaimed, "These are great gifts you have given to me. What could possibly be bad news after such great tidings?"
God looked upon Eve and said with great sorrow, "The bad news is that when I created you, I only gave you enough blood to operate one of these organs at a time. While you're bleeding through one of them every 28 days, the other will remain useless."
Is that a christard joke? Remind me to roll about laughing when you get to heaven

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#187075 Nov 25, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
No wonder I'm a bit short.
Most Mexicans are...

Don't be ashamed.

I'll buy you a step stool so you can reach the counter.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#187076 Nov 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Emotions haven't been.........proven yet
Thinking wrote:
Wrong. They exist.
<quoted text>
So does God.

Without proof.

Imagine that.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#187077 Nov 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh-huh...
So your little 'E=MC2 disproves god' is a total bowl of bullshit.
You could've just said that.
Surely you misspelled something there, did you meant “proves”,

Why do you have problems understanding the paragraph?

In short, empirical data and the theories that successfully describe those data indicate that the universe did not come about by a purposeful creation. Based on our best current scientific knowledge, we conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that a God who is the highly intelligent and powerful supernatural creator of the physical universe does not exist

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#187078 Nov 25, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks. Very interesting. Here's my review:
The link attempted to classify the various types of psychological states associated with a god attachment according to two types of emotional experience in the experience of god based on self-image and the image of the attachment figure, which it called high and low anxiety according to self-image, and high and low avoidance according to perception of the attachment figure
These were then crossed which were crossed to yield four categories of experience: secure (high self/high other), preoccupied (low self/high other), dismissive (high self/low other) and fearful(low self/high other).
It then described The Secure Attachments, The Preoccupied Attachments, The Dismissive Attachments, The Fearful Attachments http://experimentaltheology.blogspot.mx/2006/...
Then reorganized these according to two major axes of attachment with their subtypes,[1] Anxiety about Abandonment themes (Angry protest, Preoccupation with relationship, Fear of abandonment, Anxiety over lovability, and Jealousy) and [II] Avoidance of Intimacy themes (Difficulty with dependency, Difficulty with emotional intimacy, and Self-reliance)
http://experimentaltheology.blogspot.mx/2006/...
Next, the author discussed The Compensation hypothesis, which "predicts that relationship with God compensates for deficient care-giving bonds," and The Correspondence hypothesis, which "states that attachment styles will tend to remain stable across all attachment domains"and concluded that the relationship of believer to the god concept borrowed from both, more from the first in the early stage, then evolving toward the latter.
http://experimentaltheology.blogspot.mx/2006/...
=======
When I have discussed the psychological benefits of a god belief, it suggested that these needs were being met more or less in each believer: fear of death and extinction, feeling vulnerable and needing a protector, feeling lonely, feeling unloved, needing to feel valuable, needing to feel morally superior, wanting those that have hurt you punished, trying to hold onto childhood and magic, missing deceased loved ones, afraid of tough choices, or suffering from crushing guilt or shame.
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
Two areas of discussion that I would like to see included are
[I] a comparison of the three types of love that I have identified, love by a dependent or subordinate for god/parent/master, love between equals (spouse, sibling, fellow man), and love of the dependent for child/pet, and
[II] the origin of the god attachment: genetics, environmental, or both
.. ya, it's meaty reading, well worth the time ..

.. cultures are far too theologically or spiritually advanced to make the search for the solution to the cosmic mystery an accident ..

.. did the priesthood's introduction of the supernatural into the natural world cause the confusion, the God need, and change the very essence of humanity's estate ??..

.. what's your take on it? Do you think it innate, environmental or simply a case of indoctrination ??..

.. hopefully, other posters will delve into the reasons(s) for humanity's need to solve the mystery of our being. It would make for interesting debate ..

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#187079 Nov 25, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Well at least you have learned something then.
Why have you chosen Shaun Bean, a grand Yorkshire man as your avatar? I thought you had a downer on the Brits or is it just those on topix who disagree with you?
That's what you get for thinking.

You should stop.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#187080 Nov 25, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You have a good instinct.
Cowardly, but it may save you some day.
What is cowardly about avoiding a drunk with a gun/ I sounds perfectly sensible to me.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#187081 Nov 25, 2013
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>Catch!
Don't be shy now. Day in and day out for a year you have started every day. I never post to you first. That was after following me to 3 rooms. Even today in 2 different rooms you started up. And now you want to get shy just because of your lotion and cucumber baths with men? I can't figure out what it is you want!
Let's be friends again! And as friends I have just one simple question. When you said:
Catcher said:
"Hey, I spent a week at a luxury hotel in Shanghai, with a huge spa--jacuzzi, saunas, Turkish somethingorothers, cold plunge, all sorts of showers, water with cucumbers and limes, towels the size of blankets, lockers, creams, you name it. Nobody wears anything. Great diversity--Asians and Europeans of all sorts. Separate spas for each gender though, unfortunately."
Why was it a point of interest for you to make sure you mentioned there was great diversity among the nude dudes you were bathing with? Hey it makes no difference to me who takes showers with who or whatever people do on their own time. More power to them. But I just found this confusing. Did it add to the ambiance? What difference does it make what ethnicity the other guys were in the showers?
Skombi! Welcome aboard. This has been my new Topix home for the past several weeks. I think we've covered a broad topics of interest including philosophy, science, linguistics, logical fallacies, the god attachment, politics, and the Kitzmiller trial - and I expect we will cover more.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#187082 Nov 25, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that a christard joke? Remind me to roll about laughing when you get to heaven
You wouldn't know a joke if it slapped you in the butthole.

You seem laughless and lifeless.
Thinking

Merthyr Tydfil, UK

#187083 Nov 25, 2013
So you believe your god gave womankind pain and inconvenience *before* the alleged misdemeanour was committed.

Yet more proof of unintelligent design as celebrated by a misogynist.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed...
God came to Eve to pass on some news. "I've got some good news and some bad news," God said.
Eve looked at God and said, "Well, give me the good news first."
Smiling, God explained, "I've got two new organs for you. One is called a brain. It will allow you to be very intelligent, create new things and have intelligent conversations with Adam. The other organ I have for you is called a vagina. It will allow you to reproduce your now intelligent life form and populate this planet. Adam will be very happy that you now have this organ to give him children."
Eve, very excited, exclaimed, "These are great gifts you have given to me. What could possibly be bad news after such great tidings?"
God looked upon Eve and said with great sorrow, "The bad news is that when I created you, I only gave you enough blood to operate one of these organs at a time. While you're bleeding through one of them every 28 days, the other will remain useless."

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#187084 Nov 25, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Surely you misspelled something there, did you meant “proves”,
Why do you have problems understanding the paragraph?
In short, empirical data and the theories that successfully describe those data indicate that the universe did not come about by a purposeful creation. Based on our best current scientific knowledge, we conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that a God who is the highly intelligent and powerful supernatural creator of the physical universe does not exist
"We"?!

LMAO!

As in "We Topix atheists"....

Good luck to ya!

But hey, what empirical evidence do you have for God?

You'll need it to test your hypothesis....
Thinking

Merthyr Tydfil, UK

#187085 Nov 25, 2013
I have evidence emotions exist.
I have no evidence your god exists.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Emotions haven't been.........proven yet
<quoted text>
So does God.
Without proof.
Imagine that.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#187086 Nov 25, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
Krauss has an obvious agenda, not hidden, and each can decide if it is devious. He deserves no respect, in my opinion.
What do you think Krauss' agenda is? I say that he is only interested in pursuing truth in good faith. Do you disagree? If so, what support can you offer for your claim?

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