Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 256643 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Wrath”

Since: Dec 10

Is revenant

#186743 Nov 22, 2013
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
They're absolutely incredible! The artist is trying to devise a system of limited intelligence for them to learn to stay out of the water, avoid bumping into each other, etc. He wants to create a herd of these things and release them on the beach. I haven't been this blown away by anything in years...
They definitely max out the wierdshitometer.
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#186744 Nov 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't study them in great detail, but I didn't notice any sand being kicked up or tracks in my viewing of it.
Is he looking for donations?
Google strandbeests or go to YouTube. Imagine a herd of these things marching up and down the beach. Damn!
Bongo

Patchogue, NY

#186746 Nov 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!
The supernatural has thousands of years of belief. Along with analysis of the living experience. You have a few books and theories of the last few decades. A buncha could haves.
If science creates life from non-living matter it is design, not random chance that did it. Period. In bold letters.
Sorry.
Ah-haaaaaaaa
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#186747 Nov 22, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don’t go to a carpenter to have my back worked on. Or to a plumber to have my teeth fixed. Nor will I go to Atheistic music Doctor for the infidels definitions about God. You’re operating outside your battery limits Doctor.
[tipping hat]
Well unfortunately for you, these were NOT my opinions but facts. Do you have scientific confirmation that ANY miracles have occurred? Any scientific evidence that anyones prayers have EVER been answered? Has there EVER been scientific confirmation that a God being has EVER communicated by spoken word to anyone at anytime?
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#186748 Nov 22, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
That was really young to have lost your Mom. She would have been so proud of what you accomplished in your life.
Yes, I hope she would have been proud. She played the piano, and as I remember was quite good at it. Thank you for the kind thought.
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#186749 Nov 22, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I’ve never been to a hockey game.
Maybe I’ll catch one of the St. Louis Blues games one of these days.
I think you'll discover one of the most amazing events you have ever witnessed. the speed and grace and balance these guys show is truly amazing. On one side is the pure brutality of it, and on the other the grace and majesty. Achieving incredible speeds in short bursts, turning on a dime, going from blazing speed to a dead stop is a matter of a few feet, all while stick handling a small rubber disk as someone tries to knock your head off, all while standing on a mer half inch of sharpened steel. Catch a college game if you can, or even a really good high school team, some of these have more action that a pro team. Yeah, you found me out, I'm a hockey freak!!!! Played and coached kids for 10 years. Used to show up behind the bench in a Tux, either coming from or going to a gig, best dressed coach in the league!!!

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#186750 Nov 22, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Hitting Bongo in the nose.
Although witty, I cannot agree with this comment.*smiles

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#186751 Nov 22, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks, Intensive Care Unit.
I'm blonde, so forgive me, but I don't get this response.
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#186752 Nov 22, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Well unfortunately for you, these were NOT my opinions but facts. Do you have scientific confirmation that ANY miracles have occurred? Any scientific evidence that anyones prayers have EVER been answered? Has there EVER been scientific confirmation that a God being has EVER communicated by spoken word to anyone at anytime?
You seem to think we have to prove something to you. That’s not the case my friend. If you don’t want to believe, it’s no problem. What counts is that I believe and my family believes.

You’ve had your chance to reach out and communicate with God but you choose to ignore God. Your story reminds me of the 1889 Johnstown flood in Pennsylvania. People living downstream of the Dam at that time had become complacent.

They didn’t believe a dam could catastrophically fail. They had heard of leaks here and there and felt as if people were crying wolf. But then the dam breaks from poor maintenance and heavy rain. The loss of life was horrific. They died because of their unbelief.

You don’t believe Doctor, no problem, don’t believe. Similar to what had happened at Pearl Harbor. The leadership didn’t think Japan would strike with a flotilla. But they got their proof alright after thousands had died and our fleet was decimated.

Don’t believe Doctor, it’s not a problem for me.
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#186753 Nov 22, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>I think you'll discover one of the most amazing events you have ever witnessed. the speed and grace and balance these guys show is truly amazing. On one side is the pure brutality of it, and on the other the grace and majesty. Achieving incredible speeds in short bursts, turning on a dime, going from blazing speed to a dead stop is a matter of a few feet, all while stick handling a small rubber disk as someone tries to knock your head off, all while standing on a mer half inch of sharpened steel. Catch a college game if you can, or even a really good high school team, some of these have more action that a pro team. Yeah, you found me out, I'm a hockey freak!!!! Played and coached kids for 10 years. Used to show up behind the bench in a Tux, either coming from or going to a gig, best dressed coach in the league!!!
Two thumbs up Doc!

Since: Sep 10

Redondo Beach, CA

#186754 Nov 22, 2013
Some rain fell in Yorba Linda.

That's the Socal weather report tonight.
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#186755 Nov 22, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to think we have to prove something to you. That’s not the case my friend. If you don’t want to believe, it’s no problem. What counts is that I believe and my family believes.
You’ve had your chance to reach out and communicate with God but you choose to ignore God. Your story reminds me of the 1889 Johnstown flood in Pennsylvania. People living downstream of the Dam at that time had become complacent.
They didn’t believe a dam could catastrophically fail. They had heard of leaks here and there and felt as if people were crying wolf. But then the dam breaks from poor maintenance and heavy rain. The loss of life was horrific. They died because of their unbelief.
You don’t believe Doctor, no problem, don’t believe. Similar to what had happened at Pearl Harbor. The leadership didn’t think Japan would strike with a flotilla. But they got their proof alright after thousands had died and our fleet was decimated.
Don’t believe Doctor, it’s not a problem for me.
I'll never understand why you Theists feel you have to threaten those who do not believe as you. It's one step away from those that threaten non-believers with eternal torment. Threatened with a horrific outcome by someone that doesn't even know who I am, but because I refuse to believe as they do, they gladly wish me eternal torture. Is this what your beliefs yield, hateful divisiveness? One thing is a fact, you have NEVER heard an Atheist threaten a Theist with anything that resembles eternal torment, It would seem we are much more compassionate than Theists.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#186756 Nov 23, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Hold on there, pardner. There's no evidence for abiogenesis. None. All the evidence we have suggests that life cannot create itself, that it needs an outside force. Even with our greatest efforts and talents, we cannot create life. We can't even create a dead atom.
We have evidence that many of the kinds of things that need to have happened for abiogenesis to have occurred can happen. It is expected that we will eventually show that ALL of the things that had to have occurred could have occurred. That may be all we ever get.

What influence will that have on skepticism and faith? Probably none. I don't see how it would influence either camp. Skeptics don't need such evidence to reject unfounded god claims and accept abiogenesis as the likely answer now, and faith based thinkers aren't affected by evidence, as your comment attests. Nothing trumps faith.

Of course, knowing that, we don't put much stock in the objections of faith based thinkers, since we know that they are not based on an open-minded evaluation of the evidence, but on faith.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
And if this sentence is true: "It's possible because whatever cannot be shown to be impossible is possible." Then you must admit that God is possible.
I have always said that a creator god in the generic sense cannot be ruled out. Specific gods can be ruled out it their descriptions are logically impossible-

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#186757 Nov 23, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
You're missing the point and I can't tell if you're intentionally doing it or not. The point is that they used to call it science, they used to think it was fact. Just as we think our modern science is fact. Nowadays we call their old science just a "natural philosophy", but they didn't. They thought they were using actual science. And they taught their non-facts to the world and the world accepted them, including their scientific communities. Even though they were never right.
OK.

I thought that your point was that modern science, which is evidence based, is unreliable since the faith based proclamations of people like Aristotle and Ptolemy turned out to be unreliable.

Am I wrong about that? Is that not your point?

What exactly is your ultimate point regarding science? What if anything do you recommend that any given person do differently? Distrust science more?

I've already shared my skepticism for science with you, which lays at the level of the individual experiment - what I call small science - and not with the methodology of science, nor with the theories derived from the thousands of bits of small science that have stood the test of time and the scientific vetting process, and which reinforce one another in their support of the theory - so called big science.

Do you recommend that we reject the theory of evolution, which is big science, because men such as Aristotle (ancient faith based natural philosophy) and Needham (small science) were wrong?

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#186761 Nov 23, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, and good to see you here.
I heard the unmistakable sound of strawmen amassing so I came to take a look.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#186763 Nov 23, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
I don't care what "they" think, nor what you think.
We know. You don't care what anybody but yourself thinks.
Dave Nelson wrote:
What I do know is you and "they" see just a very limited part of reality and jump to conclusions ... You are a reactive thinker which prevents you from integrating all that is visible and "known" into a cohesive picture
Why do you suppose that others should care what you think?
Dave Nelson wrote:
EM and the forces of nature. Look around you, what do you see as far as you can see? Silicon. Carbon. Water. Salts. Iron. What you don't see is the EM and plasma.
Did you have a point?
Dave Nelson wrote:
Snowing outside, I have two cigarettes left, and I haven't woke up yet.
Yes, I know. And you likely never will.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#186765 Nov 23, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I've never seen a good challenge to the creation story, aside from a literal standpoint of the six day creation.

How can you challenge a story that isn't to be understood as written, and which each reader is free to interpret as he likes? Wouldn't that be like challenging the validity of a poem or an abstract painting?

Is there any part of the biblical creation story that you want to call a fact as written? I know that you don't like the expression "goddidit," but is there any part of all of this besides goddidit that we are to take literally? And why is that part different? Why is the the idea of a god to be taken literally?

[QUOTE who="RiversideRedneck "]I think that either side takes it on faith as to what they believe.
That's incorrect. I have evidence to justify my trust in the rationalist position, which makes my "faith" radically different from yours, not comparable as you imply.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Christians believe God simply spoke and the universe was created.
How is that different from goddidit other than more respectful?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Atheists believe nothing exploded and created something. I dunno...
That's incorrect.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#186766 Nov 23, 2013
2nd try:
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I've never seen a good challenge to the creation story, aside from a literal standpoint of the six day creation.
How can you challenge a story that isn't to be understood as written, and which each reader is free to interpret as he likes? Wouldn't that be like challenging the validity of a poem or an abstract painting?

Is there any part of the biblical creation story that you want to call a fact as written? I know that you don't like the expression "goddidit," but is there any part of all of this besides goddidit that we are to take literally? And why is that part different? Why is the the idea of a god to be taken literally?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I think that either side takes it on faith as to what they believe.
That's incorrect. I have evidence to justify my trust in the rationalist position, which makes my "faith" radically different from yours, not comparable as you imply.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Christians believe God simply spoke and the universe was created.
How is that different from goddidit other than more respectful?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Atheists believe nothing exploded and created something. I dunno...
That's incorrect.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#186767 Nov 23, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
LOL!
The supernatural has thousands of years of belief.
Hi Dave.

Why don't you say that again like you think it's compelling so I know you're not just kidding.
Dave Nelson wrote:
Along with analysis of the living experience.
Huh?

Oh yeah, I forgot who I was talking to. You loves you some word salad.
Dave Nelson wrote:
You have a few books and theories of the last few decades. A buncha could haves.
Since we cannot know everything, a lot of what science does is find out what might be true, and what isn't.
Dave Nelson wrote:
If science creates life from non-living matter it is design, not random chance that did it. Period. In bold letters.
Sorry.
What does that have to do with what scientists are actually doing?

The people working on the abiogenesis front are not trying to create life. They are trying to produce conditions that will allow life to arise. The only design comes from the variables they decide to test, and most of that comes from research and best guesses about earlier Earth conditions.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#186768 Nov 23, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
He's here to prevail, and will post whatever he thinks will facilitate that goal. Lying is only part of it. Ridicule, sophistry, fallacious argumentation, self-congratulations, telling his audience what to think, evading arguments, and impugning the intelligence, motives, and character of his opponent are also standard fare.
Buck Crick wrote:
But other than that, I'm an OK guy. Right?
Yeah, Buck, you're a prince.

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