Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258485 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Since: Sep 08

Alamosa, CO

#182396 Nov 2, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do we have a world full of unjust suffering? Little children born with deformed limbs or inoperable cancer and so on? Is god evil or just an eternal failure?
Darwin is the man to ask about that.

Better yet, Dawkins. He knows it all. Ask him.

People are product, but not finished yet.

Justness is a people product, and most often determined by the dispensers of such justness economic and social interests.

A very large amount of those sufferings now are are caused by your science making a better life for you. Unforeseen toxic byproducts. They are getting better at foreseeing, but it shows up in other new technologies.

Science second guessing nature in a rush to make money for some.

Our life span may have been extended, but our hazard encountering rate is much higher than it used to be. Lots more hidden dangers lurking in our products of "knowledge".

Think twice, cut once.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182397 Nov 2, 2013
River Tam wrote:
Hello IANS. I never know if your making fun of me or not. I'm a hoot, that's what I am.
I never mock you, River, although I have gently rebuked you once or twice, as you have me. I respect you and am very fond of you.

And yes, you are a hoot.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#182398 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I never mock you, River, although I have gently rebuked you once or twice, as you have me. I respect you and am very fond of you.
And yes, you are a hoot.
this is off topic, but you and the other free thinking folks on here should look up info on the dominionism trend in rightwing Christianity, and also the speeches and beliefs of Rafael cruz, the father of Ted Cruz. here comes the antiChrist! Ted C is the chosen one apparently. some folks are smart enough to know - but maybe not to say out loud - that it is the extreme rightwing of religion, participating in politics, that is the base of the viciousness, not the tea party as such - though plenty of them are in the tea party. Democrats should have realized that when we chased the white racists out of our party, they would go to the GOP, as well as KKK John Birch Society and assorted gangs, and that the consolidation of the evil forces of the former racist mostly but not entirely Southern Democrats along with the rightwing extremist GOP would result in a horrible Republican party base - along with a few nasty and or nutcase donors to fund the astroturf. I am now hoping more good folks will get into the GOP to stop the rightwing from taking it over entirely, but I doubt that they have the stomach for the kind of nasty fight that rightwing extremist Christians will give them.

Intellectual arguments about atheism are fine, but the impact of the rightwing of religion on politics is an urgent problem. Notice how the rightwingers on topix have no problem in linking their religious extremism with political extremism. But freethinker types may tend to be more intellectual and detached.
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#182400 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think they or I claimed that it is impossible for snow to cap a mountain. We claim that there is not enough water in the world for the biblical of rainfall resulting in the disappearance of all dry land on earth to be accurate. You seem to agree.
<quoted text>
Obviously, your bible is not referring to rainfall (or snowfall) on mountains, which falls downward, but to the floodwaters forming from rainfall, which level ascends as the word "upward" attests.
<quoted text>
In the end, each of us needs to decide whether your bible is the authentic word of the creator of the universe or something else in order to decide whether to devote our lives to it or move on. You seem to find these arguments compelling. I find them tortured, and I attribute that to you having chosen to believe by faith what is abhorrent to reason. When confronted with the inevitable problems that come from that, you either need to abandon any pretense of reason, or start spinning.
"When the philosopher's argument becomes tedious, complicated, and opaque, it is usually a sign that he is attempting to prove as true to the intellect what is plainly false to common sense”- Edward Abbey
Again you are going to have to let go of this pre-1940's interpretation. You're stuck in the past. This is 2013.
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#182401 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>

<quoted text>
[1] A wooden boat made to bible specifications would have broken in half with the first three foot wave.

Answer:
Pure speculation from a non nautical marine engineer who has not done test and studies on the matter.

A wooden boat that size without a rudder would founder and sink with the first set of five foot waves. The largest ships made of wood, by teams of shipbuilders, using better technology have been no longer than 300 feet. The Santa Maria was only 75 feet long. Genesis 6:15 puts the ark at 450 feet. It would be impossible for a ship this size to be made seaworthy, especially in light of the technology and the building team.

Answer: Again pure speculation and contrary to history.

(420×58 ft) Tessarakonteres

(377×46 ft) Thalamegos

416×170 ft) Chinese treasure ship

Historical records from the document History of the Ming dynasty claim that the largest Chinese treasure ships were more than 400 feet

[3] There was only one hatch - in the top. How did they muck out the manure of five million species of animals?

Incorrect, there was a window and a door.

[4] Once the salt water receded, where was the vegetation necessary for life? What did the carnivores eat until the planet was repopulated? How did the animals get back to their habitats without food or fresh water?

Answer:

Same thing farmers and ranchers do in the winter time. They store hay and food stock.

[9] If the human race descended from Noah and his sons, we would see a genetic bottleneck in the human genome roughly 4,000 years back. Do we see this? No.

10] The population of the world is too high if all humanity came from only four breeding pairs a few thousand years ago.

Answer: Speculation and unproven.

[11] A 450ft boat could not hold two or seven or whatever of every species. The number and variation of species of insects alone-- would have filled up the ark, hundreds of times over.

Answer: Speculation and assumptions. A massive regional flood is not only possible but probable. And the Ark could have held regional animals.

12] Why are there ancient civilizations with continuous histories dating back to long before the generation of Noah? China and the Egyptians have such continuous histories, with no world sterilizing flood in them.

Answer: Nearly every culture in the world has a story of a massive flood in their history including China and Egypt.

[13] Cave paintings in Europe are drawn in Charcoal. Immersion in water would have erased them. These are 15,000 years and older.

Answer: I guess these cave paintings were signed, numbered and dated by the artist??? The charcoal itself may be 15,000 years old but that doesn’t mean the paintings are that old.

[14] If there were a global flood, you would see a universal, world-wide layer of compressed mud dating the that time. This is not the case.

Answer: The earth was indeed covered mostly by water as evidence of marine animals at the top of the South Rim of the Grand Canyon. And much geological evidence points that most mountains were at one time underwater. However I do not attribute all that as being flood related. It’s just a geological fact the earth was covered by water.

15] Putting enough fresh [rain] water into the salt oceans to cover the mountains, would dilute it to dangerous levels killing all marine life

Answer: The mountains were covered in precipitation,(snow).

[17] How did animals get from Australia to the ark, or from the ark back to Australia? The animals living there now go back to pre-historic times, and most are unique to that continent. Koalas require special diets. How did Mr and Mrs Koala carry their food with them all the way from Australia?

Answer: A pre 1940’s children’s interpretation that Atheist like to strictly adhere too.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182402 Nov 2, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
Should he accept the "truth" that he should read books? Funny word - "should". Silent "L". Also funny when used by a rational skeptic. Ironic, I mean.
Somebody was just referring to mental masturbation, and then you appeared like Beetlejuice. Your first words were typical for you.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182403 Nov 2, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
You remind me of that joke where God plays an even higher authority, a doctor. When you/ve been to the top you can pass judgement on everything, eh, IANS? But you forgot who the real gods were in your universe. The suits with the money. Did you notice they weren't as sensitive to human suffering as you? Probably not. You got the money, they just supplied it. Until... Now you are a retired god passing judgement. Life is good, is it not?
You seem overly preoccupied with my life. You seem to resent it, too.

I did the best I could. Did you?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182404 Nov 2, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
As long as there's a poor Mamacita to clean his house.
I'd say the same to you that I just did to Dave.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#182405 Nov 2, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Flattery will get you far-- would you like that in a check, or small bills?
LMAO!
It was a great post, and I saved it because of that. I have several posts from Topix greats in my files. Here are two from Polymath, both of which I have posted more often than he has:

FROM NEBULA TO INTELLIGENCE
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/la-mirada-ca/...

[1] A nebula condenses under gravity [a mindless force], which increases pressure and thereby temperature [a mindless process] and increasing the rate of spin [through conservation of angular momentum [a mindless process].

[2] The central condensation gets hot enough for nuclear fusion reactions to start at the center [mindless processes] and the periphery condenses into separate planets [gravity: a mindless process].

[3] Volatile materials on the planets [like water, ammonia, methane] tend to move towards the surfaces [mindless] forming oceans with a distribution of chemicals in them.

[4] The lipids [oils] tend to form spherical pockets trapping other chemicals.[mindless]. Through repeated cycles of drying, lightning discharge, decomposition, etc, some of these lipid vesicles grow and divide [seen in labs--mindless processes].

[5] basic metabolism starts in these early cells, capturing energy from the central star [now called the sun] to use in breaking down simple sugars [seen in labs-mindless processes].

[6] Feedback loops between the genetics and the metabolism arise [mutation and natural selection is active by now--we have life].[mindless forces]

[7] The genetic code stabilizes and the proteins which had been a side metabolism become the central metabolism.[mindless]

[8] These cells surround other cells to eat them, but occasionally set up symbiosis, forming more complex cells [eucaryotes]. These more complex cells also start reacting to the chemicals released by other cells [first to find food, then for congregation, etc].[mindless]

[9] Multi-cellular organisms form from associations of these cells [see Volvox as an example].[mindless]

[10] As mutation and natural selection do their thing, the complexity of life grows [this is observed in models of basic systems of mutating and selecting organisms]. The web connecting different species grows in complexity.

[11] Some multi-cellular organisms gain the ability to precipitate calcium compounds, which are hard and provide protection from predators [shells and bones]. They tend to survive longer to reproduce [mindless].

[12] As the complexity of the organisms increases, some species gain more and more complex sensory apparatus and processing systems [brains!]. Still no minds, though. This is also a survival advantage.[mindless]

[13] Eventually a species arises that is able to model its own internal behavior in its own system [self-awareness].[mindless process forming it]

[14] As complexity of the processing system increases further, you have intelligence. All through 'mindless forces'.

====

IS YOUR UNCLE AN APE?
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/T25OKN0EE...

[1] Did your uncle have cells with membranes made of lipids rather than walls made from glucosides? If yes, your uncle was an animal.

[2] Did your uncle have a backbone? If yes, your uncle was a vertebrate.

[3] Did your uncle have any sort of body hair and the ability to regulate internal temperature? If yes, your uncle was a mammal.

[4] Did your uncle's mother have a uterus and was your uncle enclosed in a placenta before birth? Then your uncle was a placental mammal.

[5] Did your uncle have five digits on each hand and foot and a lack of claws, scales, horns and hooves? If yes, your uncle was a primate.

[6] Did your uncle have convoluted cerebral hemispheres, a large brain for his size of mammal, color vision, a lack of tail, and a lack of cheek pouches? If yes, your uncle was an ape.
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#182406 Nov 2, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
[1] A wooden boat made to bible specifications would have broken in half with the first three foot wave.
Answer:
Pure speculation from a non nautical marine engineer who has not done test and studies on the matter.
A wooden boat that size without a rudder would founder and sink with the first set of five foot waves. The largest ships made of wood, by teams of shipbuilders, using better technology have been no longer than 300 feet. The Santa Maria was only 75 feet long. Genesis 6:15 puts the ark at 450 feet. It would be impossible for a ship this size to be made seaworthy, especially in light of the technology and the building team.
Answer: Again pure speculation and contrary to history.
(420×58 ft) Tessarakonteres
(377×46 ft) Thalamegos
416×170 ft) Chinese treasure ship
Historical records from the document History of the Ming dynasty claim that the largest Chinese treasure ships were more than 400 feet
[3] There was only one hatch - in the top. How did they muck out the manure of five million species of animals?
Incorrect, there was a window and a door.
[4] Once the salt water receded, where was the vegetation necessary for life? What did the carnivores eat until the planet was repopulated? How did the animals get back to their habitats without food or fresh water?
Answer:
Same thing farmers and ranchers do in the winter time. They store hay and food stock.
[9] If the human race descended from Noah and his sons, we would see a genetic bottleneck in the human genome roughly 4,000 years back. Do we see this? No.
10] The population of the world is too high if all humanity came from only four breeding pairs a few thousand years ago.
Answer: Speculation and unproven.
[11] A 450ft boat could not hold two or seven or whatever of every species. The number and variation of species of insects alone-- would have filled up the ark, hundreds of times over.
Answer: Speculation and assumptions. A massive regional flood is not only possible but probable. And the Ark could have held regional animals.
12] Why are there ancient civilizations with continuous histories dating back to long before the generation of Noah? China and the Egyptians have such continuous histories, with no world sterilizing flood in them.
Answer: Nearly every culture in the world has a story of a massive flood in their history including China and Egypt.
[13] Cave paintings in Europe are drawn in Charcoal. Immersion in water would have erased them. These are 15,000 years and older.
Answer: I guess these cave paintings were signed, numbered and dated by the artist??? The charcoal itself may be 15,000 years old but that doesn’t mean the paintings are that old.
[14] If there were a global flood, you would see a universal, world-wide layer of compressed mud dating the that time. This is not the case.
Answer: The earth was indeed covered mostly by water as evidence of marine animals at the top of the South Rim of the Grand Canyon. And much geological evidence points that most mountains were at one time underwater. However I do not attribute all that as being flood related. It’s just a geological fact the earth was covered by water.
15] Putting enough fresh [rain] water into the salt oceans to cover the mountains, would dilute it to dangerous levels killing all marine life
Answer: The mountains were covered in precipitation,(snow).
[17] How did animals get from Australia to the ark, or from the ark back to Australia? The animals living there now go back to pre-historic times, and most are unique to that continent. Koalas require special diets. How did Mr and Mrs Koala carry their food with them all the way from Australia?
Answer: A pre 1940’s children’s interpretation that Atheist like to strictly adhere too.
You're beaten, man. Give it up.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#182407 Nov 2, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
An acquaintance of mine recently went to the "Creation Museum" in Kentucky. It's over 70,000 square feet large and completely dedication to prove the unerring accuracy of the bible.....
Here's the section on the story of Noah's Ark, with reproductions, virtual tours and explanations why creationism is true and evolution is 'impossible'....enjoy:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/...
I would think that place should not be open to impressionable children. How do parents explain to children, who presumably go on to higher education, and find out the true facts about the evidence in and on the earth, that 100% proves that no Flood, as depicted in the myth about Noah, ever occurred, nor could it ever have occurred, on this earth, and that is for many different reasons, that it could not have occurred (none of which are difficult to understand)?

It should be a crime to teach things to children that are known lies. As for teaching them myths for which we have no concrete evidence either way, then it would be hard to legislate against them, other than the children should be told that they are things that people believe in; not things that man has proved to be true.

Since: Sep 08

Alamosa, CO

#182408 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem overly preoccupied with my life. You seem to resent it, too.
I did the best I could. Did you?
I have no reason to resent it.

You seem to think reaction to your hypocrisy is envy. It isn't.

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Redondo Beach, CA

#182409 Nov 2, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no reason to resent it.
You seem to think reaction to your hypocrisy is envy. It isn't.
Come on, you've done it before.

You do resent people who are at the "top of the pile."

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#182410 Nov 2, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I would agree that the Earth is a closed system.
Water can come from the normal cycle of evaporation and precipitation. Rain storms can move from other parts of the globe bringing with it torrential downpours.
Such as we see in the United States from tropical disturbances. Which by the way does cause massive flooding in our country.
We have seen flooding from excessive snow melts that has overwhelmed the Mississippi river. Flooding thousands of miles of river basins and homes.
In addition earthquakes have resulted in Tsunami’s which have caused massive flooding.
Another cause unintentional and intentional damming of water flow. Preventing the draining of excessive rain water.
Living in a floodplain or low lying area increases the chance of being flooded. So there’s a number of sources of flooding.
I’m sorry to hear you have blasphemed the Holy Spirit. I would love to hear more about your story as I find people and their journey interesting.
There is a huge gap, that is insurmountable, between water covering large sections of one part of the earth due to any number of natural or man-made occurrences, and water covering the whole earth to a depth of several miles above the sea levels of the earth today. That much water, considering the volume of a sphere increases drastically as the diameter increases could not possibly have existed anywhere on, in, and/or above the earth at any time that there has been anything living on this earth.

If we had total melting of all the ice on the earth, is is known that many of the world's major cities today, which tend to be near or at sea level, would be covered by the seas rising, and that would kill all living things on land, that stayed in those low-lying places at that time. But it would still not be miles deep of increased water, but only a few feet or yards.

Yes, if supernatural events do happen, which has never been shown, then it is conceivable that anything that man could imagine and write in a book, such as the Bible, could hypothetically be possible. Saying hypothetically that something could be possible under unnatural circumstances, though, does not mean that such occurrences have happened, or do happen.

The very fact that there is no evidence of any worldwide Flood several miles deep ever happened, and a lot of evidence which proves 100% that the Earth never experienced a Flood that killed all living things during any period of man's existence on this Earth, does seem to be a pretty good suggestion that the Flood is a myth, and likely was intended as a myth by whoever first created the story.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#182411 Nov 2, 2013
Clark Griswold wrote:
<quoted text>Eagle read what you just wrote... the water covered THE WHOLE PLANET!
To a depth of several miles above today's sea levels - IMPOSSIBLE!!!!

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#182412 Nov 2, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Cultures have been building boats ever since man has been on the Earth.
The population of the Earth numerically was significantly lower than today. It’s not known how far mankind had traversed on land from their original beginnings.
The Earth as they knew it may have been regionally. Meaning it was possible to have the regions animals captured and put on the Ark.
The problem Atheist have with the story of the Noah’s flood. Is their very narrow perception. They refuse to look at the possibilities because they want to exaggerate the story beyond reason.
There’s absolutely nothing about this story that was impossible. We have seen catastrophic natural disasters on the Earth in our lifetime. We know that humans can build massive and impressive structures. Even in ancient times.
We know that precipitation can cover mountain tops.
Atheist are the ones who try to make the story far fetched and it’s anything but that. It’s just reality. The Earth floods today and it did in their time.
Nothing about the story is impossible other than everything about the story is impossible. What was described in the Bible about the Flood did not occur, ever. That is a known fact accepted by many prominent religious denominations of the Christian beliefs in the world. Man has not disproved God, nor will man, because if God does not exist, it is impossible to prove an non-existent thing. Man has proved that the Flood never occurred, could never occur, and will never occur on this planet.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#182413 Nov 2, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> I like how Lewis says it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =3PDZTveY4uQXX
I am watching that now. Well done.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#182414 Nov 2, 2013
cool_12 wrote:
surah yaseen < check out please its a part of Quran
www.youtube.com/watch...
No disrespect intended, but did you have a point to putting on this link?

Since: Sep 08

Alamosa, CO

#182415 Nov 2, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Come on, you've done it before.
You do resent people who are at the "top of the pile."
?

So you do consider yourself elite?

Thank you for the honesty, although it took some doing to get it out of you.

You stink.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#182416 Nov 2, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Assuming is a large part of your reasoning process.
That Jehovah is a representation of a higher authority and force behind the creation of this universe and us. It doesn't have to be as pictured.
You are reacting to men's perversions of that representation and have puffed up your little ego to Biblical proportions in reacting to them and are including that force with them. You are no better than them.
A chaotic and random creation belief suits your ego better.
I assume that you are a man, or at least a human. Does that mean, then, that you have an understanding outside man's ability to understand? If a god exists, then you must be God. Is that true?

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