Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 239053 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Sep 08

Fowler, CO

#181830 Oct 29, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Temperature! Depth! Magic!
So you are saying that all this trapped water came to the surface and multiplied by at5 least 80 fold at the rate of 9 metres per hour for 40 days and 40 night around the entire earth? Then over the next year is slowly magiced itís was back to original size and of course left no trace of itís passing?
The babble is specific at 15 cubits above the highest land, no averages involved but if you feel the need to fall on apologetics to apologise for the errors in the babble thatís fine by me.
And who cares what you posted, following you normal routine you would not have provided a citation or references. But the babble claims what amounts to almost 9000 metres deep around the entire world, not a few centimetres in a wave, you cannot compare a local wave with a world wide genocidal event.
Be advised that if such an event did occur there would be geological evidence, there isnít.
Be advised that if such an event did occur then the DNA record would indicate such, it doesnít.
Be advised that if such an event did occur the fossil record would indicate such, it doesnít.
Be advised that if such an event did occur animal diversity would indicate such, it doesnít
I did not write the babble, I am not the one claiming world flood
What fooking complex events you moron? DID NOT HAPPEN, no event to analyse however unlike you I have actually been bothered to analyse what the babble claims happened and shown to my own satisfaction that the bronze age authors of such mythology were, just like you, talking total testicles.
You can of course continue with you deliberately ignorant apologetics excuses but that will make not the slightest different to FACT.
Highest land in view.

God didn't write the book, the survivors did. That will be three times I have pointed that out.

We can dissect and analyze the hell out of science theories and applications, too, sweetness. Apply yourself to doing that and you may be surprised. But you choose to stay in that church as an alternative to the one you left.

Since: Sep 08

Fowler, CO

#181831 Oct 29, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Temperature! Depth! Magic!
So you are saying that all this trapped water came to the surface and multiplied by at5 least 80 fold at the rate of 9 metres per hour for 40 days and 40 night around the entire earth? Then over the next year is slowly magiced itís was back to original size and of course left no trace of itís passing?
The babble is specific at 15 cubits above the highest land, no averages involved but if you feel the need to fall on apologetics to apologise for the errors in the babble thatís fine by me.
And who cares what you posted, following you normal routine you would not have provided a citation or references. But the babble claims what amounts to almost 9000 metres deep around the entire world, not a few centimetres in a wave, you cannot compare a local wave with a world wide genocidal event.
Be advised that if such an event did occur there would be geological evidence, there isnít.
Be advised that if such an event did occur then the DNA record would indicate such, it doesnít.
Be advised that if such an event did occur the fossil record would indicate such, it doesnít.
Be advised that if such an event did occur animal diversity would indicate such, it doesnít
I did not write the babble, I am not the one claiming world flood
What fooking complex events you moron? DID NOT HAPPEN, no event to analyse however unlike you I have actually been bothered to analyse what the babble claims happened and shown to my own satisfaction that the bronze age authors of such mythology were, just like you, talking total testicles.
You can of course continue with you deliberately ignorant apologetics excuses but that will make not the slightest different to FACT.
Oh. I mentioned driving across an area of Turkey that was around an elevation of 1000 foot, or more, that was extremely jagged and could only have been produced by a flood. The glaciers didn't reach that far south.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#181832 Oct 29, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Highest land in view.
God didn't write the book, the survivors did. That will be three times I have pointed that out.
We can dissect and analyze the hell out of science theories and applications, too, sweetness. Apply yourself to doing that and you may be surprised. But you choose to stay in that church as an alternative to the one you left.
Who said on view? Oh you did, certainly not the babble

Who said a god wrote the book? Certainly not me, there is no god yo write anything and I do not contradict myself with such irrelevancies.

And DNA says survivors didnít write the book. That will be several hundred times I have pointed that out

The geological evidence says survivors didnít write the book. That will be several hundred times I have pointed that out

The fossil evidence says survivors didnít write the book. That will be several hundred times I have pointed that out

Say what? Injecting to much anti anything not godbot juice again? Your sick minded hayred is noted and catalogued as an aspect of your faith.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#181833 Oct 29, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
By the way, most mountians are coverd in H2O, in the form of snow. You need to get out more Doctor.
You're not even good at being deceitful, and dishonest. Your friggin holy book had no idea that snow was composed of H2O, so when it said covered by water it meant WATER, not f--king SNOW. You continue to twist and turn like every other deceitful dishonest Godbot. You seem to be getting more stupid in your old age, is that even possible???

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#181834 Oct 29, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
That picture is 100% bullsh7t. The bible does not mention either item-- since they are **critical** to the ark's success? They would've been mentioned.
But it does not solve the fact that the ark, as described, would have sunk within 30 minutes due to leaks.
I wouldn't give it that long.

I spent quite a while bouncing around on the North Atlantic. Wooden hulls. Commercial trawlers.

The Ark would have broken apart before it ever floated.

At best, it would've been Noah's Pier.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#181835 Oct 29, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I see, you know a lot, and you think itís impossible to have H2O covering a mountain top. Letís see, whatís on top of Mt McKinley?
According to you itís a dry desert. Itís impossible for water to be covering a mountain top?
Itís called snow, H20, One hydrogen and two oxygen molecules. Water in the frozen form.
I hope you are much better at music then you are in science and engineering. The last I heard, wood floats in most cases. Tons of it was floated down rivers all over America for over a hundred years to get to saw mills.
Letís see a Ark made of wood is not like a Ark made of concrete. I bet since wood floats thereís a good chance a Ark made out of wood will float.
Iím really not trying to make you look bad Doctor. Youíre doing a good job of that all by yourself.
Come on old man, you can't be this stupid. Are you saying no wooden boat has ever sunk? Is that your argument? The Ark was made of wood so it was unsinkable? Holy shit. Just so you people will stop laughing at you, do a quick google search on how many wooden boats have sunk, it's a VERY LOING LIST, Whatafuckingdope!!!!!!

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#181836 Oct 29, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh. I mentioned driving across an area of Turkey that was around an elevation of 1000 foot, or more, that was extremely jagged and could only have been produced by a flood. The glaciers didn't reach that far south.
Ehm, Only?

Certainly the Asian side of bosphorus was originally under the ocean before the Asian and Europe continents collided so water formed landmass would be apparent. However foods do not cause that kind of damage you describe, flood damage is smoothed, often flowing but not jagged. The Asian and European plates are colliding there. The action of colliding continents does not leave a nice smooth terrain for you to admire, just ask Everest how much deformation of the surrounding land can occur.

You may also be aware that Turkey is in an earthquake zone? A possibility?

Oh yes and Turkey was on the southern edge of the ice sheet, the mountains of Turkey and Iran were capped by local ice fields or small ice sheets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_glacial_per...
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#181837 Oct 29, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I see, you know a lot, and you think itís impossible to have H2O covering a mountain top. Letís see, whatís on top of Mt McKinley?
According to you itís a dry desert. Itís impossible for water to be covering a mountain top?
Itís called snow, H20, One hydrogen and two oxygen molecules. Water in the frozen form.
I hope you are much better at music then you are in science and engineering. The last I heard, wood floats in most cases. Tons of it was floated down rivers all over America for over a hundred years to get to saw mills.
Letís see a Ark made of wood is not like a Ark made of concrete. I bet since wood floats thereís a good chance a Ark made out of wood will float.
Iím really not trying to make you look bad Doctor. Youíre doing a good job of that all by yourself.
Here I did your homework for your lazy ass. This is a partial list ALL WOODEN BOATS

Longest known wooden ships[edit]

This transport-related list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.
Length Beam Name Service Current status Comment
55 m
(180 ft) 9.1 m
(30 ft) Bounty 1960Ė2012 sunk in Hurricane Sandy An enlargement of HMAV Bounty which was scuttled by mutineers; built by MGM for the movie Mutiny on the Bounty.
54.71 m
(179 ft 6 in) 9.8 m
(32 ft) HMS Surprise 1970 museum ship Originally commissioned and operated as a sail training ship, HMS Rose was renamed Surprise for her part in the movie Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World. She was sold to the Maritime Museum of San Diego in 2007. She again appeared on film as HMS Providence in the Disney film Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides.
47.5 m
(155.8 ft) 11.7 m Vasa 1628Ė1628 museum ship
This Swedish warship sunk on its maiden voyage when a gale forced water onto the ship, it fell over on its port side and sank.[1] Her sparred length is estimated at 69 meters, but her measured deck length (between perpendiculars) is 47.5 meters (155.8 ft).[2]
48 m
(162 ft) 13.5 metres (45.5 ft) Mars 1564 sunk after battle A Swedish warship with 107 guns, that sunk after the battle known as Action of 30 May 1564 of the Northern Seven Years' War. Wreck possibly relocated in 2011.[3] A possible sparred length has been estimated by divers as 80 meters.
51 m
(167.3 ft) 12 m Peter von Danzig Before 1462 Ė late 1470s wrecked A Hanseatic League caravel, built in the French Atlantic port town La Rochelle, and the first large vessel in the Baltic Sea with carvel planking.[4]
58.3 m
(191.2 ft) 16.0 m
(52.5 ft) HMS St Lawrence 1814Ė1815 turned into a hulk then sunk Constructed in the Kingston Royal Naval Dockyard in Upper Canada during the War of 1812 to fight on the Great Lakes. After never seeing action it was decommissioned and became a storage hulk before sinking.
58.5 m
(191.9 ft) 11 m GŲtheborg 2003Ė operational This Swedish ship is 40.9 m (134.2 ft) long without the bowsprit, and a replica of the original that sank off GŲteborg in 1745.
61.3 m
(201.1 ft) 16.2 m SantŪsima Trinidad 1769Ė1805 sunk after battle One of the few four-deckers ever built. 136 guns.[5]

Since: Sep 08

Fowler, CO

#181838 Oct 29, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Who said on view? Oh you did, certainly not the babble
Who said a god wrote the book? Certainly not me, there is no god yo write anything and I do not contradict myself with such irrelevancies.
And DNA says survivors didnít write the book. That will be several hundred times I have pointed that out
The geological evidence says survivors didnít write the book. That will be several hundred times I have pointed that out
The fossil evidence says survivors didnít write the book. That will be several hundred times I have pointed that out
Say what? Injecting to much anti anything not godbot juice again? Your sick minded hayred is noted and catalogued as an aspect of your faith.
Lovey dovey, you are getting emotional.

Let's get rational and analytical.

At this time you are assuming a linear progression of evolution and man's history. You have the DNA and fossil stuff. You believe the Adam and Eve of our present DNA have been found. And quite the many years apart. Apparently they weren't shacking up. It was just a crossing of lines. Admittedly there is discussion about the length of time between. But it does appear Eve was first.

http://www.nature.com/news/genetic-adam-and-e...

Now keep that in mind.

The Biblical story is Adam was made, then Eve was made from Adam. Then their offspring mated with women from someplace else. So you have a crossing of genes there that proceeded to Noah. Noah had a direct link back to Adam, as did his children and wives assumedly. Now, everyone else got erased, so those 8 people became seed stock for the man of today. This can cause the disparity in those DNA Adams and Eves. The landscape also had a serious rearrangement which would also have a serious effect on the plant life that existed, changing the ecological and evolutionary equations. The gene pool for land based animals was carried on the ark. It is quite conceivable that various creatures such as insects or those that could survive water would have survived the flood, preserving their gene pools.

There was a mass extinction event and this world is the result of it. A big reset of geological and life progression and evolutionary adaptation. I believe there is scientific evidence of such happening in our distant past.

Remarkable myth, eh?

Put things, including ancient texts, into perspective and evolve from there.

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“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181839 Oct 29, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
Ditch the 1940ís interpretation Doctor. This is 2013. Genesis 7:20.ďFifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.Ē Now did it say the ďtopsĒ of the mountains were covered?
NO it doesnít. That is your insinuation from the old days of the 1940ís.
That measurement is about 28 feet and the would be enough water to cover the base of the mountains in the area. And mountainous areas can flood. Just ask the Coloradans.
So that's what drowned all of humanity and the beasts except Noah's family and assorted pairs of the various kinds, huh? A few feet of water? Incidentally, 15 cubits is approximately 22.5 feet - even less than 28 feet.

If "covered" means around base, "a day" is whatever time period you need it to be, and "soon" can be over two millennia, what does "he died for our sins" really mean? How about if somebody said, "he had a headache because we forgot somebody's birthday"? If you are free to make the pronouncements you just made, on what objective basis could either of you disagree with the other? None, I'd say. You can only offer opinions, and there is no objective standard by which to assert that any one is more valid than another, just faith.

By the way, if the 1940s explanation expired by 2013, how long will this interpretation be good for?

This is what I mean by the slippery slope. Once you go down this road - simply proclaiming that the bible means whatever you want it to mean because you say so - it has no definite meaning at all. The fundamentalists may believe absurd things because of it, but they have the virtue of taking the words at their face value.

I understand your dilemma if you have problems with both camps. So do I.

Since: Sep 08

Fowler, CO

#181840 Oct 29, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Ehm, Only?
Certainly the Asian side of bosphorus was originally under the ocean before the Asian and Europe continents collided so water formed landmass would be apparent. However foods do not cause that kind of damage you describe, flood damage is smoothed, often flowing but not jagged. The Asian and European plates are colliding there. The action of colliding continents does not leave a nice smooth terrain for you to admire, just ask Everest how much deformation of the surrounding land can occur.
You may also be aware that Turkey is in an earthquake zone? A possibility?
Oh yes and Turkey was on the southern edge of the ice sheet, the mountains of Turkey and Iran were capped by local ice fields or small ice sheets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_glacial_per...
I am well aware it is an earthquake zone. I was 4 floors up when one hit in the middle of the night.

The earth was once covered over with water. If you wish to go with the accretion route, all of the vapor and molecules collected were squeezed out to the surface forming the ocean. It could have been very shallow, but then the crustal and continent building began and you got differences in elevation created and the general landscape we are used to today.

You have to get off the literal interpretations, and the hijacking of creation accounts that formed later religions, to understand there is something more to those books than efforts to make you behave and be a good girl, which just chafes your ass something fierce.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181841 Oct 29, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Every day is proof of what? Nothing, except that we are alive on a planet that has days. The rest is speculation. What does every day prove to you? That the universe has gods? One god? One god named Jesus?
Robert Stevens wrote:
As usual you are not even in the ball park. Jesus was a great person worthy of worship. The story is spectacular.
I don't think so.

Can you back your opinions up with anything? Just as my opinion is meaningless to you, what you believe is of no value to others - only what you can demonstrate.

How does the universe prove to you that Jesus exists? Why not Wodin or the whole Viking pantheon? Doesn't every day "prove" their existence just as much?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181842 Oct 29, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Your post are text book on why I am against paraphrasing. Beside what is standard of paraphrasing your responses are not even in the ball park of your break down.
More unsubstantiated opinions.

If you want to have any impact on skeptics, you need to demonstrate that your opinions are based on more than faith. How about producing one of these paraphrasings you like to condemn without support, put it next to what you claim was paraphrased, and demonstrate what it is that you are objecting to?

Faith may be the currency of belief in your circles, but not with skeptics. All you do by making faith based claims is reinforce the skeptic's understanding that they are of no value to him. Your failure to supply such evidence when you have a good reason to do so and when it would be easy were your claim valid is actually evidence that you can't.
LCNLin

Marietta, GA

#181843 Oct 29, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is a link to the actual speech, not just the extract you chose to cherry pick
ďOur epoch will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity. It will last another hundred years, two hundred years perhaps. My regret will have been that I couldnít, like whoever the prophet was, behold the promised land from afar. We are entering into a conception of the world that will be a sunny era, an era of tolerance.Ē-Hitlerís Table Talk, pg 343-344

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181844 Oct 29, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
[Atheism] is the belief man knows everything.
There's a useless definition. If atheism is a belief, it's the belief that you haven't made your case for a god.
Robert Stevens wrote:
To claim it as proven is saying exactly that.
We don't claim atheism is proven.

We don't even claim that it is an assertion, just an unassailable opinion that cannot successfully be invalidated without producing a god: "I don't believe you, Mr. Preacher Man."

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#181845 Oct 29, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
The Biblical story is Adam was made, then Eve was made from Adam. Then their offspring mated with women from someplace else. So you have a crossing of genes there that proceeded to Noah. Noah had a direct link back to Adam, as did his children and wives assumedly.
There was a mass extinction event and this world is the result of it.
Disproven religious bullsh*t and you know it!

First prove your god, then lie some more afterwards and see if the rest works on em.

Don't give up your day job creationist propogandist.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#181846 Oct 29, 2013
LCNLin wrote:
<quoted text>
ďOur epoch will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity. It will last another hundred years, two hundred years perhaps. My regret will have been that I couldnít, like whoever the prophet was, behold the promised land from afar. We are entering into a conception of the world that will be a sunny era, an era of tolerance.Ē-Hitlerís Table Talk, pg 343-344
Shaddap you creationist.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#181847 Oct 29, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you back your opinions up with anything? Just as my opinion is meaningless to you, what you believe is of no value to others - only what you can demonstrate.
Of course he cannot, because he is a religious liar, who is doing what his cult paid him to do in the atheism forum.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#181848 Oct 29, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I see, you know a lot, and you think itís impossible to have H2O covering a mountain top. Letís see, whatís on top of Mt McKinley?
According to you itís a dry desert. Itís impossible for water to be covering a mountain top?
Itís called snow, H20, One hydrogen and two oxygen molecules. Water in the frozen form.
I hope you are much better at music then you are in science and engineering. The last I heard, wood floats in most cases. Tons of it was floated down rivers all over America for over a hundred years to get to saw mills.
Letís see a Ark made of wood is not like a Ark made of concrete. I bet since wood floats thereís a good chance a Ark made out of wood will float.
Iím really not trying to make you look bad Doctor. Youíre doing a good job of that all by yourself.
That's two hydrogen and one oxygen, you blistering, apocalyptic imbecile.
LCNLin

Marietta, GA

#181849 Oct 29, 2013
Yawn

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