Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258039 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“What game?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#181426 Oct 26, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You have never given me anything but shit.
You get what you give Dave. Funny how that works, ain't it?
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Now, Ms Derp, enlarge upon your utterances and provide evidence to your childishly delivered allegation.
You first, dumbass.

See how this works, Dave?

Since: Sep 08

Alamosa, CO

#181427 Oct 26, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
You get what you give Dave. Funny how that works, ain't it?
<quoted text>
You first, dumbass.
See how this works, Dave?
:-)

Oh, yeah. That is why I am going to bed.

Goodnight, little one.

Since: Sep 10

Redondo Beach, CA

#181428 Oct 26, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You have never given me anything but shit.
Now, Ms Derp, enlarge upon your utterances and provide evidence to your childishly delivered allegation.
Chill, Dave.

It's gonna be ok.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#181429 Oct 26, 2013
Doctor REALITY wrote:
<quoted text>Robert, you're going to meet the Lord Jesus Christ after you die, whether you want to, or not.
And you're going to be eaten by the TROLL that lives under the bridge, just as soon as you start to cross it.

I hope you don't have any babies at home along with a cat. The cat will sit on your baby at night while your asleep and suck all the air out of its lungs, be very careful.

Don't you people ever grow out of that childish phase were your frightened of what hides under your bed? Are you that scared of the night and the unknown that you have to make up childish stories.

Doctor REALITY,,Really? LMAOROTF, you wouldn't know reality if it climbed up your leg and bit you on the ass. You're a sorry ass joke.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#181430 Oct 26, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are trying to assume a position of being a sane individual judging others, scar.
It don't work. You ain't got it in you.
Sure, Dave.

I know, I know, I know... you've got special knowledge.

Oh wise one.

“What game?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#181431 Oct 26, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
:-)
Oh, yeah. That is why I am going to bed.
Goodnight, little one.
Goodnight, elderly one.

It's all good, yes it EEEiiisss.

:-)

“What game?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#181432 Oct 26, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Chill, Dave.
It's gonna be ok.
Nurse, "It's gonna be OK River"

River, "I know"

Nurse, "You need to calm down River"

River, "I am calm"

Nurse, "OK, you need to release the doctor, River"

River, "If I drop him now, his neck could break"

Doctor, "Grrrrhghf ghrrufh"

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181433 Oct 27, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
There’s no contradictions, only misinterpretations.
That's incorrect. Would you like to see some?

And who gets to say what is the correct interpretation of words? Who gets to decide which of a pair of conflicting scriptures or sets of scriptures is to be taken at face values, and which is to be reinterpreted to negate its apparent meaning?

The answer is everybody. And just about every Christian does.
Eagle 12 wrote:
Most Atheist claim to be experts in the Bible.
I've never seen even one do that. But I have a huge and growing collection of reasons given by believer telling me why I am less qualified to interpret scripture than they are. I'll share them with you.

REASONS GIVEN ON TOPIX WHY SKEPTICS AREN'T QUALIFIED TO COMMENT ON THE BIBLE

[1] I took the scripture out of context. It means something other than what it says (context and implied meaning never supplied).
[2] I don't understand literary criticism
[3] It's an allegory, not literal.
[4] It's literal, not an allegory.
[5] Scripture is only transparent to those with a child's perspective
[6] Scripture is only transparent to biblical scholars
[7] I am not filled with the Holy Spirit
[8] That's the mystery of it all. "God works in mysterious ways"
[9] Man's mind is too puny to grasp the immensity of God's truth and justice.
[10] You were obviously never a "true christian"
[11] You don't have enough faith. You have to believe to understand.
[12] You can’t criticize the bible because you don’t believe or understand it.
[13] Why do we think we can pretend to know God?
[14] Scripture always interprets scripture
[15] Ever heard of biblical hermeneutics?
[16] You are not TRULY with truth and sincerity seeking God.
[17] You have to know how to translate Hebrew and Greek
[18] You are using a completely unsupportable transliteration of Scripture
[19] You have clearly not studied the ancient peoples who wrote those things or you would not come up with the conclusions you have.
[20] It takes humility to understand the Bible
[21]“Stop scripture mining."
[22] You have to be familiar with the technical terminologies in the bible before you can comprehend it.
[23] Even Satan can quote scripture.
[24] In any other field, like medicine, engineering, technology, electronics, software, computer, unless you have qualifications and experience, you are not allowed to open you mouth.
[25] You have no reference in the knowledge of God to know our experience in Christ Jesus. The Word has to be embedded in one's heart, and that can come from God only.
[26] You're asking me to give you a four year bible study course on Topix?
[27] Dont fall in the trap of being a one verse wonder. You need to understand the passage and true meaning of the verse.
[28] You're only making a fool out of yourself trying to argue over something that you are not Blessed to understand.
[29] When you read scripture, one has to discern WHO that particular verse was written to..The believer or the Non believer. If we cant understand that then YES, the bible would seem to be very contradicting.
[30] A doctor, lawyer, scientist, or engineer are so used to reading their professional documentation literally, that metaphor, allegory, parables, hyperbole, and analogies are like another language unto themselves.
[31] You are not bright or educated enough to spew against Bible
[32] I would question the person who thinks that you understand even one page of any Bible. Without first learning the language how could you.
[33] Your arguments are so full of errors and misconceptions I don't even wanna touch it.
[34] You and others like you can't understand because you're not permitted to unless/until you repent and confess Christ as LORD.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181434 Oct 27, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
Evolution Science has an enforcement arm. Like the ole East German Police. If you don’t believe in it. Then you are dragged out into the hall and calibrated with night sticks. So now all Scientist have to pretend they believe in evolution of mankind.
You've made that claim repeatedly - no doubt something you heard and chose to believe on faith.

But evidence based thinkers need more than claims. Let's look at some evidence:

Who are the most famous evolution deniers? William Lanne Craig,Michale Behe, William A. Dembski, Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort come to mind. Has even one of them been physically beaten? If not, how do you reconcile that fact with your claim?
Eagle 12 wrote:
University students have to lie and say they believe in evolution in order to graduate.
If they're lying, they shouldn't graduate. Secular universities have different standards for scientific educations than bible colleges.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181435 Oct 27, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
I could believe in mans evolution if we had Orangutans at the local lube shop changing our oil in our cars. Or if apes were delivering packages for UPS. And Taxi cab drivers were chimps. Then you would have a strong argument for evolution.
I don't believe that such things would put a dent in your faith based beliefs, nor in any other believers. Evidence is not a part of faith based thought.

Besides, that wouldn't be evidence for evolution anyway, not even to a skeptic. Evolution is a dynamic process requiring change over time. Wouldn't you just claim that they were created that way?

But what's with all of this talk about evidence? Several of you keep asking for proof of this or that, implying that it would matter to you.

But we know how faith based thinkers think, and evidence is not part of the process, which is why we tend to disregard the objections of the religious to scientific discoveries.

Consider the issue at hand - human evolution. We have smoking gun proof for human evolution from ancestral apes, and it doesn't make a whit of difference to most faith based thinkers. It's a trifle insincere to imply otherwise.

What I've learned is that you cannot make a man see what he has an interest in not seeing, and you cannot use reason to make him disbelieve cherished ideas that he acquired without reason.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#181436 Oct 27, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You have never given me anything but shit.
Now, Ms Derp, enlarge upon your utterances and provide evidence to your childishly delivered allegation.
Creationist opinions are to be regarded as the babblings of mentally ill cult members.

When you can become brave and prove your god, your opinions will matter more and not before.

How many times must we educate you stupid people about this?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181438 Oct 27, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
And what is even funnier about the BuyBull(bible)? As we move forward towards the 22nd century? More and more of the bible magically becomes "well--that's just allegorical". It started with the OT commandments to burn animals to "please god"-- that became "allegorical" as people realized animal sacrificing was barbaric. As more and more of the hideous bible-behavior was seen as barbaric? They too became barbaric and were discarded. On up to the modern era, when slavery was finally decreed barbaric-- and the bible passages advocating and even commanding the taking of human slaves was seen as ... allegorical... What? The? Eff? When will it stop? Who gets to decide these things, anyway? LOL!

Clearly **secular** folk have superior morals and ethics than the bible-writers.
Better ethical philosophy, better political philosophy, and better natural philosophy.

Fortunately, the more reasonable among the faithful have been adopting the ethics of reason and compassion - secular ethics - for centuries. The invention and addition of the New Testament's gentle god to the ferocious god of the Old Testament was a great advance, as was the declaration (by Paul, but not by Jesus) that the old law was obsolete. Christians were no longer compelled not to suffer witches.

And secular advances have had a tremendous effect on Christianity since then as well, most notably in natural philosophy and political philosophy.

Many are calling their creation myth allegory, a triumph of secular science. And most apart from the Dominionists have embraced the modern, liberal, secular, democratic state despite the dictatorial biblical model for governance to the contrary, where their god in heaven, the divinely appointed king on earth, and the male the head of the household all hold power absolutely - not by taking votes nor counting hands.

Of course, many Christians want to imply that these are all Christian innovations. They frequently remind us many of the earliest scientists and the American founding fathers were believers as their religions were the source of their maverick thinking rather than their willingness to think freely.

It's all good.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181439 Oct 27, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
Remarkable semblance to the man/god thing, eh? The child always knows what's best for themselves. Just ask them.
I think I know where you're going with that.

Christians frequently liken the man-god relationship to the adult-child relationship - what I call Christian infantilization. The model for existence in Christianity is the child's perspective, where there is the need for protection, supervision, and comforting characteristic of childhood.

The entire psychology of Christianity is geared toward the underdevelopment and subordination of the self. It perpetuates dependency, and esteems unknowing and docility. It's authoritarian, paternalistic, filled with superstition, ritual, mythology (stories), and magical thinking.

The Christian is told that he’s born bad and needs constant shepherding from a Heavenly Father figure, a cosmic baby sitter in the sky who is to be obeyed and not questioned.It encourages concrete and uncritical thought, obedience, fear of the boogie man, and a sense of being watched, judged, and punished by a father figure that is keeping account of our actions.

Is that close?

Consider this comment from Bishop John Spong: "The church doesn't like for people to grow up, because you can't control grown-ups. That's why we talk about being born again. When you're 'born again' you're still a child. People don't need to be born again, they need to grow up."

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181440 Oct 27, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
You are on the irrational side.
He's a rational skeptic, like me - not a faith based thinker. What is more irrational than believing without evidence?
Dave Nelson wrote:
What is so holy about children?
Nothing. Holy is a word that refers to nothing outside of the heads of men. It's an instruction to believers to treat the god concept and associated concepts as special. It's the same with words like consecrated, sacred and blessed. They're just words without referents.
Dave Nelson wrote:
Tell me something. You are an atheist and believe in evolution.
"Believing in" is for faith based thinkers. Rationalists do something different, and call it "believing," not "believing in." We believe things provisionally according to the quality and quantity of supporting and contradictory evidence, and are amenable to revising our belief pending new evidence. People who "believe in" do none of those things.

I believe that the sun will appear over the eastern horizon tomorrow based on evidence. And I believe that life evolved on earth over deep time from a common ancestral cell form for similar reasons. I don't believe in evolution any more than I believe in the sun.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181441 Oct 27, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
It sounds like you agree with Mikko if you disagree with the courts. You seem to realize that the American courts do not create any part of reality other than how laws are interpreted for Americans. Atheism is not a religion. Neither is secular humanism - unless you are willing to call any belief system a religion regardless of what it advocates.
Eagle 12 wrote:
I do agree with Mikko. But our courts have made a ruling that it is a religion.
We needn't quibble over the difference between calling atheism a religion, and treating it as the equivalent of one in the eyes of American law for the purpose of affording it the same privileges and protections religions get in America.

Suppose I stipulate to your version. So what? Why mention it at all if you consider it wrong? Did somebody claim otherwise?

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#181442 Oct 27, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You have never given me anything but shit.
Now, Ms Derp, enlarge upon your utterances and provide evidence to your childishly delivered allegation.
Hey!

Don't pick on my darling River. <Smile>

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181443 Oct 27, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
I believe that abstinence should be taught along with other methods of birth control. Let’s face it abstinence is the safest way of prevention. But we all have to be realist in our thinking. Many kids will not abstain. So they need to know how to protect themselves.
You being a MD know all too well it’s far more than unwanted pregnancies. It’s all these STD’s that are alive and well circulating among the population. Including the dreadful hepatitis.
I recommend abstaining from unhealthy sex, which I define as sex that hurts others, that leaves you infected or unhappily pregnant, in prison, shot dead, or feeling guilty or ashamed. Otherwise, go for it.

Since: Sep 08

Alamosa, CO

#181444 Oct 27, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I think I know where you're going with that.
Christians frequently liken the man-god relationship to the adult-child relationship - what I call Christian infantilization. The model for existence in Christianity is the child's perspective, where there is the need for protection, supervision, and comforting characteristic of childhood.
The entire psychology of Christianity is geared toward the underdevelopment and subordination of the self. It perpetuates dependency, and esteems unknowing and docility. It's authoritarian, paternalistic, filled with superstition, ritual, mythology (stories), and magical thinking.
The Christian is told that he’s born bad and needs constant shepherding from a Heavenly Father figure, a cosmic baby sitter in the sky who is to be obeyed and not questioned.It encourages concrete and uncritical thought, obedience, fear of the boogie man, and a sense of being watched, judged, and punished by a father figure that is keeping account of our actions.
Is that close?
Consider this comment from Bishop John Spong: "The church doesn't like for people to grow up, because you can't control grown-ups. That's why we talk about being born again. When you're 'born again' you're still a child. People don't need to be born again, they need to grow up."
I understand everything you said, have even thought them, and even subscribe to some of thing.

But your focus is skewed and reasoning is a bit warped from it. You are cherry picking to fertilize those marvelous deep thoughts that someone planted in your head. You have advertised yourself as being of a group think. You have intellectualized your self into la la land. And the cult gotcha.

“"None shall pass"”

Since: Jul 11

There

#181445 Oct 27, 2013
Doctor REALITY wrote:
<quoted text>Robert, you're going to meet the Lord Jesus Christ after you die, whether you want to, or not.
Then so will you, DR.
Based on your magic book, all you will probably hear from Him is, "I know you not."

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181446 Oct 27, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
That is because the courts know that when a thought becomes an organization of thought, then it becomes a belief system. A faith.
Not all belief systems are a faith.

Have you ever asked yourself why you try to push that word onto unbelievers, or what the implications are if you try unsuccessfully?

“I always flinch in embarrassment for the believer who trots out,“Atheism is just another kind of faith,” because it’s a tacit admission that taking claims on faith is a silly thing to do. When you’ve succumbed to arguing that the opposition is just as misguided as you are, it’s time to take a step back and rethink your attitudes.”- Amanda Marcotte
Dave Nelson wrote:
Stupidassed Topix atheists don't know what they are. Maybe that is why they are always demanding proof?
We're skeptics, and all we demand is evidence and cogent argument. Even then, we only need it for ourselves. Without it, all you have is faith.

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