Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#176372
Sep 4, 2013
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
As stated, this is wrong. The temperature of 2.7 K is that of the cosmic background radiation, but that has little to do with the issues of creating low temperatures in the lab (otherwise, we would have found this temperature *long* before we did). More relevant are the temperatures when various gases liquify and/or freeze. There are a large number of tricks used to achieve low temperatures, from simple evaporation (which reduces the energy in the left over material), to magnetic alignment, etc. It is a very specialized area of study, actually.
The issue is NOT quantum effects, for the most part. They arise in liquid helium, to be sure, but they are not the limiting factor for lower temperatures. instead, there are good thermodynamic considerations relating to the energy balances for low temperatures that come into importance. It is simply impossible to have high efficiency refrigerators at low temperatures putting energy into a high temperature environment (the lab).
And the 2.7 K is NOT, by far, the lowest energy level for anything in the lab. It is simply the cooled temperature of the background radiation which was a few thousand degrees when it decoupled from matter.

Again artificially it can be done, but in the functioning universe
it doesn't happen or at least not that we discovered.
I phrased it wrong though and know over a hundred years ago helium was taken down below that temperature. But it also does involve the uncertainty principle, because theoretically you have to remove all the atoms out of a space to achieve absolute zero.
But theoretically you cannot remove all the atoms out a given space because of it.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#176373
Sep 4, 2013
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
It is easy to underestimate the amount of knowledge of how things work we had through experience with, say, forges and waterwheels. The Antikythera device shows that the ancient Greeks knew how to make precision machines with gears, but such devices never became common. There was even simple knowledge of heat engines, but they were used for toys partly because the metallurgy of the time didn't allow seams tight enough for large scale use and high pressures. Knowledge doesn't progress linearly.
Still even though a few ancients were very far ahead of their time,
Leonardo, Archimedes etc. The way we are able to store and communicate knowledge makes the human knowledge factor no comparison. It was easy to lose and forget all great advances known in the destruction of a few places. Think of the stored information now. Home computers with 4 terabyte hd's is like a entire library of Alexandria in millions of places on the web.
Along with millions of websites, and millions of researchers with millions of schools and private corps. with information at the fingertips.

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#176374
Sep 4, 2013
 

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polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, they did; eventually. That was what happened when the telescope *was* invented. A lens maker put two lenses together and noticed the effect.
"he oldest lens artifact is the Nimrud lens, dating back 2700 years to ancient Assyria.[3][4] David Brewster proposed that it may have been used as a magnifying glass, or as a burning-glass to start fires by concentrating sunlight.[3][5] Another early reference to magnification dates back to ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs in the 8th century BC, which depict "simple glass meniscal lenses"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lens_%28optics%2...

Sure took them a long time.

You think the more modern developers read those old books to get their knowledge?

http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a-Pinho...

Bet there was something like that around in the old days, too.

If you ever meet your ancestors expect to get scolded real bad about you calling them so stupid.

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#176375
Sep 4, 2013
 

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Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Still even though a few ancients were very far ahead of their time,
Leonardo, Archimedes etc. The way we are able to store and communicate knowledge makes the human knowledge factor no comparison. It was easy to lose and forget all great advances known in the destruction of a few places. Think of the stored information now. Home computers with 4 terabyte hd's is like a entire library of Alexandria in millions of places on the web.
Along with millions of websites, and millions of researchers with millions of schools and private corps. with information at the fingertips.
Takes more brains than a Topix atheist has to put all of that info in a coherent manner and learn something.

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#176376
Sep 4, 2013
 

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Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Again artificially it can be done, but in the functioning universe
it doesn't happen or at least not that we discovered.
I phrased it wrong though and know over a hundred years ago helium was taken down below that temperature. But it also does involve the uncertainty principle, because theoretically you have to remove all the atoms out of a space to achieve absolute zero.
But theoretically you cannot remove all the atoms out a given space because of it.
You can if you polarize them and give them a place to go. Polarizing is the direction of spin. You give a path for those vortexes to follow and join. Think black hole. But it won't last. The void will be filled by the strain it puts on surrounding material, decomposing them until a balance is met.

“Robert Stevens”

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#176377
Sep 4, 2013
 

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Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Cite reference to what program, or scientist who said that.
We all know some scientists believe, but more often than not the scientist's words are twisted around or used out of context by creationists to support their own belief.
So you saying the above has very little value, or meaning without showing their words and not yours.. but I can tell you this. That very little physicists or cosmologists believe in god the way you think of a god. Some may make reference to "god" meaning anything beyond human understanding at the present, but you can count the percentage of believers with one hand when it comes to the hard sciences and belief in you bible god.
I don't have a Bible and never claimed to. The tread does read "Atheism require as much faith as religion" If you are not up to that standard, you should not post here at all.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#176378
Sep 4, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You can if you polarize them and give them a place to go. Polarizing is the direction of spin. You give a path for those vortexes to follow and join. Think black hole. But it won't last. The void will be filled by the strain it puts on surrounding material, decomposing them until a balance is met.
Inside of a black hole is essentially outside the universe.
The parts of a black hole that are in this universe are heated to millions of degrees. But we still don't really know what is going on inside them. But we do know those gamma rays bursts, that come out of them, are millions of degrees also.

“Robert Stevens”

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#176379
Sep 4, 2013
 

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I_see_you wrote:
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If there is a creator then it is certainly possible that they may have planned it that way. I, myself, doubt that...but it is simply because I do not have a belief in a "god". However, if you are correct in your belief, then I actually do hope that you get to see the second coming, and then there will be no doubt on the rights and wrongs of creation ;)
I not only believe in God or Gods, I believe in two styles of Gods.

1. The real McCoy. This is a style that does not need worshipers. Such a sort not only is in your DNA it makes adjustments. Example black American people are often afraid of dogs by nature. The Lynch Farm and other slave handlers used dogs to punish. The grand child of a victim of this abuse will avoid and possible fear dogs. There could be more than one creator/protector God. I believe Earth is a God. Or at the very least a higher form of life. Let's not leave out a good chance we were created by Extra Terrestrials. I think we are most likely a computer simulation.

2. Gods we create. The human mind is that powerful, in my opinion. I believe the power of believe has made Jesus a power that does answer prayers.

In my opinion it is clear the frequently posting online Atheist does believe in the power of the human mind also. To spread Atheism, you have to be a hater. I do respect an atheist, that just doubts. No effort to convert others. For someone like that to claim they have no faith, I would say true. Id you try to deliver anything as an answer, you have faith.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

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#176380
Sep 4, 2013
 

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I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you mean to say Agnostic Atheist? Most Gnostic Atheists that I have spoken with and have watched conversations from have pretty bad manners sometimes....Or I guess a better way to put it would be to say that they don't have the best people skills because frustration gets the better of them. Of course this is just my opinion.
I understand with and agree with your statement. In regards to this conversation message tread. It is hard to discuss beliefs without getting condescending. I see this as where Atheist show they are people of faith and belief. In my opinion the biggest proof that Atheist do have faith, belief and are even religious, to a point they are fanatics and fundamentalist. Is their drive to respond, if seeing something they disagree with. I hate to say it, but you can't ever have a real conversation with them. They're just too competitive about this. The online Atheist has turned atheism into Atheism, which is a religion.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#176381
Sep 4, 2013
 
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't have a Bible and never claimed to. The tread does read "Atheism require as much faith as religion" If you are not up to that standard, you should not post here at all.
Essentially you're a flake if you think I need meet any standard to post here. A claim was made and I asked for proof and what I get is BS and then crickets. Still no discovery channel quantum physics professors, claiming quantum physics prove god eh?

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#176382
Sep 4, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
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Inside of a black hole is essentially outside the universe.
The parts of a black hole that are in this universe are heated to millions of degrees. But we still don't really know what is going on inside them. But we do know those gamma rays bursts, that come out of them, are millions of degrees also.
They can't be outside the universe. They are merely poles leading to someplace else. You just can't observe and identify the energy flow due to the models we have.

Energy and heat are two very poorly defined terms, and a primary cause for the poor model. Energy is motion, either of mass or space. Bare bones definition. The definitions you attempt to get in physics is a circular reference to measurements of energy. There is no real "face" of "energy". The same goes with heat. Heat is basically packets of that motion created by that motion encountering resistance. Kind of like water splashing, but the water is space. That space hits other space within atomic structures and vibrates it. Space itself is very much a carrier of energy. It is like an electrical ground plane providing a return path. Light is a carrier of that energy, but it is just motion wrapped up in a ball, so to speak. There is a lot of noise or undercurrents in that space ground plane, just like in an electrical one.

Those millions of degrees are apparent based upon models developed here, not actual measurements.

Black holes give out jets, links have been posted about that. That is stripping the packets of motion and sending them in one direction, but they are encountering resistance and getting wrapped back up to a degree, probably because there are bits and pieces that didn't get completely unwound and got caught in the stream. You are basically separating the "positive" and "negative". Positive is nuclei and gravity, but the nuclei is being stripped. You won't see any light coming from that, just gravity, and accelerated at that. You lose the charge that was in it. Your "negative" is the electron clouds, and they are repelling the hell out of each other, that EM force being so much stronger than gravity, and so much less mass.

Or something like that.
xianity is EVIL

Windsor, Canada

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#176383
Sep 4, 2013
 
praiseorbash wrote:
This statement is not true. With religion, your faith is tested every day. God wants us to walk by faith and not by site. Bash atheism! https://praiseorbash.com s/atheism
did god told you this or are you just making up BS?

Faith is belief without Evidence,,stop listening to your stupid preachers who want to keep YOU stupid and unthinking

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#176384
Sep 4, 2013
 

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Come to think about it a little.

The same phenomenon that causes centripetal force has to also apply on the galactic scale. It is like an acceleration of gravity.

Look at the black hole vortex spin direction, and angle, to the galactic plane, or mass density if globular. Then observe the jet and see where it comes out. This could give an indication of how the electron shells start getting stripped off. When those shells get removed you have nothing but the strong force to keep nuclei and nucleons apart. Their spin starts to get stopped and motion unwound. You have your collapsing universe, but instead of disappearing, it just sends out a stream of unwrapped space, which adds even more attraction as it creates a wake to be filled. It will appear as supergravity, or a much larger mass than it really is. Look for effects at a distance from the other side of the visible jet. Something will not be "normal" in that path. For a long ways out. Or you may wind up with a sphere with that black hole near the middle and matter reforming around its surface. See where the visible jet material goes.
xianity is EVIL

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#176385
Sep 4, 2013
 
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
I not only believe in God or Gods, I believe in two styles of Gods.
1. The real McCoy. This is a style that does not need worshipers. Such a sort not only is in your DNA it makes adjustments. Example black American people are often afraid of dogs by nature. The Lynch Farm and other slave handlers used dogs to punish. The grand child of a victim of this abuse will avoid and possible fear dogs. There could be more than one creator/protector God. I believe Earth is a God. Or at the very least a higher form of life. Let's not leave out a good chance we were created by Extra Terrestrials. I think we are most likely a computer simulation.
2. Gods we create. The human mind is that powerful, in my opinion. I believe the power of believe has made Jesus a power that does answer prayers.
In my opinion it is clear the frequently posting online Atheist does believe in the power of the human mind also. To spread Atheism, you have to be a hater. I do respect an atheist, that just doubts. No effort to convert others. For someone like that to claim they have no faith, I would say true. Id you try to deliver anything as an answer, you have faith.
theres Nothing to convert to,dumbo,atheism aint religion!

theres no Atheism theres only atheism,,LACK of belief in gods no more no less

anyone claiming otherwise is either totaly stupid or trying to convert atheists, to your silly beliefs

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#176386
Sep 4, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
They can't be outside the universe. They are merely poles leading to someplace else. You just can't observe and identify the energy flow due to the models we have.
Energy and heat are two very poorly defined terms, and a primary cause for the poor model. Energy is motion, either of mass or space. Bare bones definition. The definitions you attempt to get in physics is a circular reference to measurements of energy. There is no real "face" of "energy". The same goes with heat. Heat is basically packets of that motion created by that motion encountering resistance. Kind of like water splashing, but the water is space. That space hits other space within atomic structures and vibrates it. Space itself is very much a carrier of energy. It is like an electrical ground plane providing a return path. Light is a carrier of that energy, but it is just motion wrapped up in a ball, so to speak. There is a lot of noise or undercurrents in that space ground plane, just like in an electrical one.
Those millions of degrees are apparent based upon models developed here, not actual measurements.
Black holes give out jets, links have been posted about that. That is stripping the packets of motion and sending them in one direction, but they are encountering resistance and getting wrapped back up to a degree, probably because there are bits and pieces that didn't get completely unwound and got caught in the stream. You are basically separating the "positive" and "negative". Positive is nuclei and gravity, but the nuclei is being stripped. You won't see any light coming from that, just gravity, and accelerated at that. You lose the charge that was in it. Your "negative" is the electron clouds, and they are repelling the hell out of each other, that EM force being so much stronger than gravity, and so much less mass.
Or something like that.
What cannot be is.

“Robert Stevens”

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#176387
Sep 4, 2013
 

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Aura Mytha wrote:
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Essentially you're a flake if you think I need meet any standard to post here. A claim was made and I asked for proof and what I get is BS and then crickets. Still no discovery channel quantum physics professors, claiming quantum physics prove god eh?
You do meet the standard of having faith and belief. An atheist without belief or faith, would see no purpose to post here. I think in some detail it is sad you come here and represent the Atheist movement. I often wonder if the atheist I know are really closet Atheist.

“Robert Stevens”

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#176388
Sep 4, 2013
 

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xianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
theres Nothing to convert to,dumbo,atheism aint religion!
theres no Atheism theres only atheism,,LACK of belief in gods no more no less
anyone claiming otherwise is either totaly stupid or trying to convert atheists, to your silly beliefs
Ye who post The Atheist verses. I agree atheism is not a religion, however Atheism is. If you don't believe, don't seek others to join you. Don't except mythology, in other words don't try to claim what has not been proven, to be fact. Except what can't be proven. Don't jump ANY science claims. In other words don't scream fact until absolutely proven. You could be a (a)theist. If you spend time bickering with theist. You are an (A)theist. There is no reason to prove to others, to sell.

“Robert Stevens”

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#176389
Sep 4, 2013
 

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xianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
theres Nothing to convert to,dumbo,atheism aint religion!
theres no Atheism theres only atheism,,LACK of belief in gods no more no less
anyone claiming otherwise is either totaly stupid or trying to convert atheists, to your silly beliefs
It is this simple. Anyone attempting to convert has a belief. It does not have to be religious by plan, but in nature it does end up religious. I give you The Tea Party.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#176390
Sep 4, 2013
 
Robert Stevens wrote:
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You do meet the standard of having faith and belief. An atheist without belief or faith, would see no purpose to post here. I think in some detail it is sad you come here and represent the Atheist movement. I often wonder if the atheist I know are really closet Atheist.
But then again your wonder had exceeded thy wondrous limitation , and reality an altogether different thing.

Reality is real no matter how you think it is. It alone remains real after all you have said and done , reality is the remainder.

“Think&Care”

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#176391
Sep 4, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
If you ever meet your ancestors expect to get scolded real bad about you calling them so stupid.
I never call them stupid. I say they were ignorant of many things we are aware of today. They made many mistakes, although typically not stupid ones. I'm sure we make many mistakes also.

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