Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 255504 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#173705 Aug 7, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
True.
But even those super computers must be programmed-- using the correct maths.
And making a computer do calculus? Isn't as easy as it is teaching your average human.
:)
I know-- I learned calculus back in the day, and I have programmed computers too-- I was a programmer for 17 years, in fact.
On the other hand, doing the multiple-sum simulations, which would take a human days or years, it a matter of seconds or at worst, minutes on a super computer, so...
:)
Fortunately, most of the cross sections are well known. The basic physics is also well known. Getting the computers to do math is usually done by either Kutta-Runge for differential equations or some quadrature method for simple integration. Differentiation tends to be avoided: too many ways for round-off errors to propagate. Modern computers do these calculation very quickly (for the most part). A full three dimensional model requires a lot more time, but not a significant amount more programming, although various finite element methods help that also.
Imhotep

Deltona, FL

#173706 Aug 7, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
You forgot to add that I escaped on camelback...
:)
LOL

Speaking of escape...
'It ain't necessarily so'(IANS) has vanished from the forums. I miss the good old doc in Mexico have you heard from him?
Imhotep

Deltona, FL

#173707 Aug 7, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
You forgot to add that I escaped on camelback...
:)
The Lord does work in mysterious ways!

It was a pair of cameltoes That required me to clean my sunglasses!

Thanks for the straight-line set up!

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#173708 Aug 7, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Well... if your findings are correct?
Then, it pretty much wipes out the whole idea of Jesus being a god, doesn't it?
Such a minor, insignificant personage who gets nary a mention, could hardly be a god, now could he?
I'd expect **better** documentation from an actual godly offspring.
As a bare minimum of standards.
That's the problem with your hypothesis Bob. It's your level of expectation that is limiting you. You're super-imposing your modern ideals onto an ancient culture. You're thinking in terms of what **ought** to have happened compared to what **did** happen. The modern standards cannot be applied to ancient standards.

Now from a theological perspective, Jesus wasn't about showing power and miracles just for cheap thrills and circus atmosphere entertainment. His teachings and ministry were subtle with his disciples and with the crowds, and really "in-your-face" when confronting the socially elite Pharisees (ancient fundies) of that time period. Now I know you see this as some canned Christian excuse, but let's be truthful here. People who didn't want to believe Jesus' teachings and miracles explained them away, back then, and they still do today.

You say you would love the idea of an all powerful, loving God. If that's the case, why not accept the evidence we do have? It's not going to get any better. Which attests to the honesty of what I say. I'm not willing to make stuff up to convince you. If you're not convinced, you need to look at yourself and not the lack of more convincing evidence to find out why.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#173709 Aug 7, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Adding to reading list. I've read the Eisenman book. Nice.
This was going back to 86/7, I was a first year uni student, my history prof was well into the period, more from the Roman point of view and he compiled a great deal of data. As professors do he press-ganged several students including myself into the boring slog, reviewing and cataloguing his work. It got me interested in the period so while on business in Germany I took time out to Panteras grave and have visited Rome several times.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#173710 Aug 7, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Too cool! An actual scholar amongst us.
:)
I wouldn’t go that far, poly and hiding are far more scholarly than I am. My time looking at the period was mostly in pre elective history, taken to fill up my hours.
It did hook me though and have spent several holidays as an enthusiastic hobbyist before getting into the Cro-Magnon period

Satan is the one true god

Since: Aug 13

Winter Park, FL

#173711 Aug 7, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
That's the problem with your hypothesis Bob. It's your level of expectation that is limiting you. You're super-imposing your modern ideals onto an ancient culture. You're thinking in terms of what **ought** to have happened compared to what **did** happen. The modern standards cannot be applied to ancient standards.
Now from a theological perspective, Jesus wasn't about showing power and miracles just for cheap thrills and circus atmosphere entertainment. His teachings and ministry were subtle with his disciples and with the crowds, and really "in-your-face" when confronting the socially elite Pharisees (ancient fundies) of that time period. Now I know you see this as some canned Christian excuse, but let's be truthful here. People who didn't want to believe Jesus' teachings and miracles explained them away, back then, and they still do today.
You say you would love the idea of an all powerful, loving God. If that's the case, why not accept the evidence we do have? It's not going to get any better. Which attests to the honesty of what I say. I'm not willing to make stuff up to convince you. If you're not convinced, you need to look at yourself and not the lack of more convincing evidence to find out why.
miracles?....really...there is no such thing....unless you care to demo one for us...

show us some evidence for any gods.....60 minutes can do a special ....
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#173712 Aug 7, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldn’t go that far, poly and hiding are far more scholarly than I am. My time looking at the period was mostly in pre elective history, taken to fill up my hours.
It did hook me though and have spent several holidays as an enthusiastic hobbyist before getting into the Cro-Magnon period
I think it shows in the posts by atheists here, that there are a number of people who have had a good education or have engaged in a personal pursuit for knowledge or have an interest in learning.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#173713 Aug 7, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
'It ain't necessarily so'(IANS) has vanished from the forums. I miss the good old doc in Mexico
I liked his posts too. Maybe topix took up too much of his time as he posted a lot. Just a guess, but think he may have moved to another forum.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#173714 Aug 7, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Another fallacy is that the Egyptians didn't document the exodus because it would have been embarrassing to the empire. But that doesn't fly because several failures were documented even mocking of members of the royal family! Certainly all the first born boys getting killed overnight would have been written about.
<quoted text>
Hey, Pharoh?

What's up, General in charge of trade?

Uh...we just lost 40 000 slaves. Yeah. And an army. They just took off and their deity saved them.

Oh. Well, what's the ramifications of that?

Well, we're goi-

Hahaha! General, I made a pun!

What, sir?

A pun! Don't you get it? Rami-fi-cations! I'm Ramses! hahaha, I'm so awesome. I'm a god, you know.

Yes, sir, very funny. Yes, you're a living god. The son of Ra. All heaven smiles upon you, sir.

So, what? What about these slaves and our army?

Well, and there's these plagues going around. We probably wouldn't be able to feed ourselves because the slaves left, but now that's not a problem because the plagues are killing everyone.

Huh. Ok, a net even then.

Well...it's kind of horrible out there. I mean, we've really got a lot of clean up.

Yeah, yeah. Look, don't write about this or anything. Just...sorta let it slide, ok?

What? That's hardly the point. I came to you for advice on rations, your holiness.

Yeah, sure, whatever. Just don't write about it. I'm embarrassed another deity beat me in saving slaves.

But you don't care about slaves. And...and...

What? What? Speak to your deity, worm!

Sir, just last week that other god beat you in soccer and we wrote about it. So why is this different?

Well, gosh, I don't know... That was like sports! This is like, gonna be history. I just don't want people from the future to believe in this upstart deity who really is a pain, you know?

Ramses, Ramses. We have a - I mean 'the'- greatest civilization to date! Let's just build some ships, follow those slaves, and kill the entire lot of them.

Hey! That's a great idea.

Awesome. Then we'll build some pyramids.

What??? Pyramids? Whatever for?

Well, sir, that's the other reason I came here. If I can just have a minute of your time...

Ok. Worm! Speak to your deity!

It's the latest thing in longevity, sir! First, we take 10 000 workers and pretend that they're really 100 000 slaves, and feed them meat and very expensive, hard to produce beer.

Where are you going with this?

And then, sir, after only 10 years, they will build for you a machine that will enable you to live forever.

Forever?

Yes, sir.

But I'm a deity! I will live forever.

Yes, but not really. I mean, you'll die. Tut died. You're going to die.

No I won't! I'm a deity!

We have to build this pyramid sir. It's the only thing.

<sign> Ok, by royal decree! But...but...

What, sir?

Look, I'm embarrassed about the whole thing. Go recapture those slaves and have them build it, but don't tell anyone.

What???

Yes. Don't tell anyone. I'll just go with you and re-part the Red Sea, because that's what us deities do, and you can re-capture them, and build this thing and we won't tell a damned person. Then you can let them all go again, and I'll part the Red Sea for them <yawn>.

Oh. Ok. Wow. This is getting complex.

<yawn>

I see, sir. You're tired. I'll leave.

Yeah. You go do that. Oh, and before you go, here let me break this bread and feed 10 000 men. Don't count the women or children, just give them food, ok?

Certainly, sir. And wine?

<sigh> Ok, ok, I'll make water into wine again for you. But, look, I'm tired! The tiredness that only a living god-king feels! I have to sleep soon. Send up ... I don't know, 3 women.

Done and done, sir!

(and that's how Exodus really happened)

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#173715 Aug 7, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
Also, it is important to realize who Jesus' followers were. The Zealots were the Taliban of the time, at least in the eyes of the Romans.
I don't...I don't really think the Taliban existed back then. Or were connected to those other terrorists. I've followed the money trail myself and didn't see a cross-time, cross-language money trail.

Sorry, Poly. I just have to disagree with you here.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#173716 Aug 7, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, done at nuclear reactors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americium
"Most americium is produced by bombarding uranium or plutonium with neutrons in nuclear reactors – one tonne of spent nuclear fuel contains about 100 grams of americium."
And in layman's terms, we call this "safe."

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#173717 Aug 7, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
The rates of radioactivity can be affected in several ways. But none of them are particularly helpful for the preservation of life (high neutron fluxes, for example). For any process even remotely possible on earth, the decays rates vary by *at most*.1% under very high pressures. And that only happens for those isotopes that can do beta capture. None of the ones used in geology have even that issue.
Contamination is a much more relevant factor. But even here, there are several ways to check to see if a rock has been contaminated. The isocron methods involving Rb/Sr can do this while also giving the original date and composition of the crystal.
You kind of lost me here on why you are writing this to me.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#173718 Aug 7, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Fortunately, most of the cross sections are well known. The basic physics is also well known. Getting the computers to do math is usually done by either Kutta-Runge for differential equations or some quadrature method for simple integration. Differentiation tends to be avoided: too many ways for round-off errors to propagate. Modern computers do these calculation very quickly (for the most part). A full three dimensional model requires a lot more time, but not a significant amount more programming, although various finite element methods help that also.
Bob is a programmer :)
he can program your next sun-math machine!

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#173719 Aug 7, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL
Speaking of escape...
'It ain't necessarily so'(IANS) has vanished from the forums. I miss the good old doc in Mexico have you heard from him?
He's on "Why should jesus love me"

because he's deeply, deeply curious about jesus and love.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#173720 Aug 7, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldn’t go that far, poly and hiding are far more scholarly than I am. My time looking at the period was mostly in pre elective history, taken to fill up my hours.
It did hook me though and have spent several holidays as an enthusiastic hobbyist before getting into the Cro-Magnon period
It sounds like you've forgotten more than I will ever know about the historical period surrounding Jesus! Nice.

Re: cromagnon - you and I could have some nice chats on this :) I have friends who dig up these guys. And, this is a bit before cro-magnon, but I was invited to work on a dig that spanned the H. erectus to early H. sapiens, but had to decline.

Sad me! But that's a bit out of my expertise. However, I was able to jive with the scholar about his theoretical views.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#173721 Aug 7, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
I liked his posts too. Maybe topix took up too much of his time as he posted a lot. Just a guess, but think he may have moved to another forum.
Check out here:

http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...

For verily I declare unto thee, thou shalt surely uncover IANS thence!
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#173722 Aug 7, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
..thou shalt surely uncover IANS thence!
I forgot about that thread. I guess that is a good place if you want to debate Christians. I prefer this forum personally.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#173723 Aug 7, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
..(and that's how Exodus really happened)
:) like the story. Seems like divine humans have been around a long while.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#173724 Aug 7, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
:) like the story. Seems like divine humans have been around a long while.
Hey, thanks.

Yeah. I'm on that stupid thread and cringe every time I read the words. Blach!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Play "end of the word" part 2 (Dec '15) 2 min WasteWater 2,043
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 3 min hojo 646,563
The Christian Atheist debate (Jun '15) 4 min Aura Mytha 48,548
Poll Is homosexuality a sin? (Oct '07) 12 min WasteWater 105,575
George Soros Is a Brilliant Investor 13 min andet1987 5
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 16 min RiversideRedneck 971,631
Why I’m no longer a Christian (Jul '08) 19 min ChristineM 445,717
Jehovah's Witnesses are true disciple of Jesus ... (Mar '07) 49 min Steve III 44,682
More from around the web