Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258461 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Thinking

Lymington, UK

#172692 Jul 21, 2013
The problem with religitard socks like "Atheism is [insert negative here]" is that they judge everyone by their very low standards.

If they raised their standards, the world would be a better place to live.

Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are trying say I am sock puppet of BOQF that would be impossible, we are not even in the hemisphere.
Astra

Sydney, Australia

#172694 Jul 21, 2013

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#172695 Jul 21, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Still waiting for the source if your hehe ten methods and the proof that the gospels meet these. Many apologetic scholars would even tell you the gospels are unable to do those 10.
LOL. The authors of that book ARE apologetic scholars. And you can look inside the first few pages of the book at the table of contents and the section is listed right there. Go ahead and look. Here's the link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1608999548/ref=asc_d...
Givemeliberty wrote:
Your links,which are opinion pieces, do not claim as you say they do and even then it does not answer in the slightest my question as to why the gospels do not match up! You still have cowered and hid from that question!
The gospels do match up in several significant ways. They all attest to the existence of a Jewish Rabbi who pissed off the religious/political establishment and got himself crucified. They all attest to the cultural and political climate of that time in Israeli history. They all attest to the belief that Christ rose from the dead and that this was the basis for the beginning of the Christian church. The differences you see are really the signature of eyewitness accounts, and add validity to these accounts. If the writers were making it up, we wouldn't see as many discrepancies as we do. The methodology is to separate the discrepancies to the point that you can see where they all agree.

Givemeliberty wrote:
Unable to refute a single one of my facts or answer even one of my questions you like a typical christhole try to turn it around saying I am the one who is angry? Taking it personally?:))
You presented facts? Where? I sure didn't see them. I saw assertions laced with ridicule and not backed up by any source material or logical coherent arguments. Do you have any sources (and yes books count) to back up your assertions?

Why did you use the word "angry" in conjunction with the attempted insult "christhole"? Seems like you are taking it personally. Perhaps because I won't play your childish little game?:)
Givemeliberty wrote:
You do realize that in real conversation and debate adults are generally required to answer questions and not run in fear right?
Absolutely correct. It's ironic that you have mentioned this when that's all you have done. Hypocritical even. I'm sure that Polymath and Quantum Bob have the intellectual integrity to at least admit I hold up my end in civil conversation. So let's just cut to the chase and dispense with the bullshit shall we?

1) I am not on your time schedule. I have a personal life outside of TOPIX. I will answer what I want, when I want. If I don't know the answer, I'll tell you. If I'm offering speculative opinion, I'll admit it as I already have on numerous occasions.

2) I am not here to get into a pissing contest or "win". I present arguments and concepts knowing full well that smart people will attempt to shoot them down with their own decent arguments. That's what I want and fully expect. And when I say 'decent' I mean in both substance AND civility. Of course there will be people with less intellectual integrity who resort to childish methods such as name calling and double standard hypocrisy.(No names mentioned as I look in your direction and cough derisively.)

3) When I do answer a question, it will be on my terms. Not yours. If i feel the need to lay a framework to support my assertions in advance, I'll do so. I don't need your permission. In other words, I'm not going to be pigeon-holed by your steam-roller tactics of bombarding me with questions. I'm not going to give you short answers just to shut you up.

Feel free to be "angry" and call me more names. It will reveal your lack of intellectual integrity and make you a poster child FOR theism.

Since: Jun 13

Milwaukee, WI

#172697 Jul 21, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
He was also horribly wronged.
very true notice his absence from many history books
Astra

Sydney, Australia

#172698 Jul 21, 2013
For more info on Atheist Bloodshed:

www.atheisticviolence.wordpress.com

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#172699 Jul 21, 2013
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
Quite simple the assassination of JFK was:-
1. Filmed
2. Photographed
3. Witnessed by thousands
4. Well documented
5. In living memory
Yet still subject to controversy and conspiracy theories to this day.
The bibull can claim none of these. Yet people center their whole on it.
Hello Richard. You have brought up an interesting point. Conspiracies. But the JFK assassination has nothing to do with oral tradition in the ancient methodology of Greco-Roman and Hebrew culture. It's a totally different concept. But we can talk about conspiracies if you want to. I'd be glad to actually.

Just a quick summary of my own background so you know how I think.

1) Both of my parents are retired historical researchers and I accompanied them on many of their research trips. I was always fascinated by history and how we can find out what happened in the past.

2) I'm an Army veteran where I served as a Military Policeman. I have a Bachelor's Degree in Criminal Justice and I worked as a licensed Private Investigator for a number of years. While a majority of the cases I worked were civil (extra-marital affairs, pre-employment background checks, insurance claims, wrongful death claims) I can tell you I was able to glean a lot of information from police officers and witnesses in that time. Conspiracy theories are always interesting. So if you wish to go that route, let me know. All I ask is that you remain civil. I don't have time to waste with belligerence.

3)

Since: Mar 11

Henderson, KY

#172700 Jul 21, 2013
Thanks for discrediting them as biased apologetic scholars. I prefer unbiased secular scholars please. Do use unbiased scholars in the future okay?

Oh sure on some points the gospels are able to match up... They all have this fictional Jesus in them..hooray? But beyond that the details vary wildly which is proof they were made up and changes through the years with each future writer changing up things to his liking. Saying that wild amounts of errors proves it is reliable is insane even for one such as yourself. We're the lol oral traditions so spot on an reliable we should not see such massive errors yes?

Yes I have presented several facts and had you not cowered in fear away from them you would see that. Once again why don't the gospels match up? Don't give excuses on why it doesn't matter answer why thy have several significant errors. I won't hold my breath. I have sources for all I state. You start actually answering a question and once I a while provide an unbiased source and I will happily share my unbiased secular historical sources.

I know I am not the only one laughing at your so called schedule and not wanting to as you say, play games.. Yet you will make these max character posts to me that do nothing but angrily belch your opinion instead of merely answering my questions. I have not even asked you anything difficult yet as simple questions stump you. I am not the only one who notices that even in your so called civil back and forth exchanges with those you consider civil you as expected refuse to answer their questions as well.

As I said you seem to think your personal opinions trump observable facts. That's what makes you a christhole.

Here let me try this yet again.. Fill in the blanks.

The logical reason the gospels do not match up and have several contradicting errors is because.......

Paul a man who never met Jesus in the flesh was the first to write about him decades later because.......

The story of Jesus very closely follows word or word the stories of previous messiah son of god stories because......

Fill in the blanks on those three very simple question if you can. Perhaps your lol historian parents can assist? I'll allow you to get help from them to fill in those blanks. I don't know how I can make it any easier than that... I still won't hold my breath
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>LOL. The authors of that book ARE apologetic scholars.

The gospels do match up in several significant ways. If the writers were making it up, we wouldn't see

You presented facts? Where? I sure didn't see them. I saw assertions laced with ridicule and not backed up by any source material or logical coherent arguments. Do you have any sources?

1) I am not on your time schedule.

2) I am not here to have an honest back and forth discussion.

“Sweden more democratic thanUSA”

Since: Jun 12

Södertälje, Sweden

#172701 Jul 21, 2013
Astra wrote:
For more info on Atheist Bloodshed:
www.atheisticviolence.**** press.com
blog of lies!

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#172702 Jul 21, 2013
To all the Holy Rollers who hate gays, immigrants, etc:

103 Bible Verses about Obeying Authority
http://www.openbible.info/topics/obeying_auth...

To paraphrase the words of Hulk Hogan "whatcha gonna do when Judge -O -mania runs wild on you?”

Matthew 25:31-46
The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right,‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him,‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply,‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left,‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer,‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply,‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

“The King of R&R”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#172703 Jul 21, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello Richard. You have brought up an interesting point. Conspiracies. But the JFK assassination has nothing to do with oral tradition in the ancient methodology of Greco-Roman and Hebrew culture. It's a totally different concept. But we can talk about conspiracies if you want to. I'd be glad to actually.
Just a quick summary of my own background so you know how I think.
1) Both of my parents are retired historical researchers and I accompanied them on many of their research trips. I was always fascinated by history and how we can find out what happened in the past.
2) I'm an Army veteran where I served as a Military Policeman. I have a Bachelor's Degree in Criminal Justice and I worked as a licensed Private Investigator for a number of years. While a majority of the cases I worked were civil (extra-marital affairs, pre-employment background checks, insurance claims, wrongful death claims) I can tell you I was able to glean a lot of information from police officers and witnesses in that time. Conspiracy theories are always interesting. So if you wish to go that route, let me know. All I ask is that you remain civil. I don't have time to waste with belligerence.
3)
You say "conspiracy theories are always interesting". To whom, may I ask?

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#172704 Jul 21, 2013
If atheism is growing then the only ones to blame are the hypocritical religionists.

The ones who ignore Supreme Court Rulings. The ones who refuse to apply the US Constitution to all citizens. The ones who love their guns more than other people's children by passing "Stand you Ground" laws that let murderers walk!

Why they would think I'd consider it a reward if God put me with them for eternity is beyond rational thinking. They expect me to jump through their hoops like a trained dog just so I can spend eternity with their hate and bigotry?

I'll pass thank you.

And I'm a Christian!
Astra

Sydney, Australia

#172705 Jul 21, 2013
For more info on Atheist Bloodshed:

www.atheisticviolence.wordpress.com

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#172706 Jul 21, 2013
Redoran wrote:
<quoted text>
You say "conspiracy theories are always interesting". To whom, may I ask?
To those who are interested in them.

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#172707 Jul 21, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Thanks for discrediting them as biased apologetic scholars. I prefer unbiased secular scholars please. Do use unbiased scholars in the future okay?
That's not possible. No historian investigates the past without bias. You're biased against the idea that Jesus existed. You wouldn't be asking for secular scholars if you weren't. If you were truly unbiased, you would be asking for scholars from both sides.

I notice you didn't say anything when I demonstrated that the books and the ten tests actually exist. Why not? You said I had made it up. Are you man enough to admit being wrong in public? To use your own phrase against you, I'm not holding my breath.:)

I'll be glad to fill in the blanks for you, but on my terms, not yours. You don't get to dictate how I answer. That's not an option for you. And you don't like that do you? I'm glad you don't.:)

Paul wrote first and likely within 3-5 years after the crucifixion of Jesus, and not decades later as you claim without proof or any supporting evidence. Here's how we can be highly confident of that:

Clement of Rome wrote a letter to the Corinthian church in 96A.D. in which he talks about the earlier letters of Paul they had received and were holding. This letter of Clement still exists and can be read today. In that letter, in chapter 47, Clement writes:

"Take up the epistle of the blessed Apostle Paul. What did he write to you at the time when the Gospel first began to be preached? Truly, under the inspiration of the Spirit, he wrote to you concerning himself, and Cephas, and Apollos, because even then parties had been formed among you."

Cephas was the disciple Peter who converted Clement. In this letter, Clement plainly says that Paul started writing when the gospel was starting to be preached. Since Christianity started in Jerusalem, this has to be very early. It took months for the gospel to circulate.

Now for challenge 2:

The alleged contradictions in the New Testament are only apparent contradictions. Meaning, they can be reconciled by knowing the context, the culture, the style of writing, etc.

For example, there is the subject of expansion and compression. How many women or angels were at the empty tomb is a great example of an apparent contradiction, and it's only because of one writer compressing the account, while the other expands the account with more detail. It's not uncommon in legal matters either. I've seen affidavits that seem to contradict each other until you realize one person is supplying more detail. There are many reasons that this happens. I'll save that for another time.

I've answered your questions yet again. Please continue breathing.

Now I have a question for you.

If you were a history student, and were given the assignment of looking for historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus, how would you proceed?

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#172708 Jul 21, 2013
To 'astra'

Care to look at the violence you and your kind cause?

Bombing abortion clinics. That wasn't atheists.
They didn't bomb churches, that was you folks.

Atheists also don't expect free trips all over the world that are paid by someone else so they can proselytize in countries where such actions are illegal. Again that's YOUR group.

Shall we look at the 103 verses of the Bible that instruct your missionaries to obey civil laws?

Didn't think so.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172709 Jul 21, 2013
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently he has a new definition of the word love.
One that George Orwell wrote of in his novel, 1984.

Yes, I got that already.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172710 Jul 21, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
It's true that Peter wasn't a direct author. He had a scribe. His scribe's name was Mark. So if Peter was illiterate (as most Jewish fishermen were) then it makes sense that he would tell his accounts to somebody to write them down. And we do know that Mark wasn't exactly the best in writing grammatically correct Greek. The texts show that he struggled. A textual critic would know that, as would anyone with 3 or more years of Greek under their belt.
John also struggled with Greek, but with John we can see improvement over a period of time. By the time he wrote Revelations, he was fairly competent at both Greek and writing.
Matthew may not have actually touched the quill to the papyrus, but his notes were very likely instrumental in expanding the gospel Mark had written. That doesn't mean embellishment by the way. It means that Mark wrote a very compact gospel, and when Matthew read it, he expanded on it for his Jewish audience.
Luke was a Syrian physician and is the only one who starts both his gospel and the sequel with a prologue that attests to the reliability of the tradition he's passing on. This is important because Luke's gospel isn't a book, but a personal letter to a high ranking Roman official.
That would be amazing-- what you postulate above, seeing as how each of the people you mention was long in the grave, when the books you mention were actually written.

Gives a whole new meaning to the word "ghost writer".

The modern scholarship date the oldest gospels to 60CE or later, perhaps as late as 120CE.

That would put these people into the grave by rather a bit.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172711 Jul 21, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't see how I am. Yes languages do change, but the authors and scribes of the New Testament were dogmatic about not changing the meaning.
You know this... how? You have a magical Time Machine which lets you compare a 1000th generational copy document with the originals?

People do not change that much.

Unless you do have a Time Viewer? You are just blowing smoke.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172712 Jul 21, 2013
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
Same here. I just do not understand why they have to come here to spew their hate. I mean really how worthless does their life have to be?
Agreed. It's as if they are obsessive-compulsive.

And maybe they are.... a recognized mental disease.

It would explain why they cling to bronze age mythology so tightly.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172713 Jul 21, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
They're smart, but incorrect. But that's just my opinion.
Well, at least you have the decency to admit it's just opinion.

Which makes me ask.... why?

Since, as you claim, it's literally of infinite significance?

Why?

Why did your god not do better than that?

What was his agenda, in allowing such obfuscation to creep in to his "message"?

And why not re-release a **modern** update? One that is clearly and without any doubts, of **divine** origins?

And don't try the dodge of "faith"... that won't wash.

Infinite significance, remember? To rely on the untrustworthy faith?

Is to be evil.

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