Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 253309 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

#172391 Jul 16, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
As a Christian, I see this vested interest manifested in the person of Jesus Christ. What better way for God to enter our world and interact with us than in a personal way. As a living breathing person who eats, sleeps, feels pain, feels our sorrows, our joys, etc, etc.
As for the subjects you bring up, those are perfectly valid natural events to discuss with regard to the existence of a personal God.
It all goes back to "the fall." In Christian theology, Adam and Eve were ejected from the garden, and God withdrew His presence from our world. For your consideration, think on this if you will.
If God's attributes are that of love, light, and sustainment of eternal life, then it logically follows that if God withdraws His presence from our world, we lose that sustainment of light, love, and eternal life. Everything starts to break down. We start to see animals eat each other. We see gradual decay and disease, chaos, irregularity, atmospheric turbulence. All of nature is out of sync.
Now it really is survival of the fittest as Darwin suggested, but because God withdrew from our world and not because there isn't a God.
I'm aware you may not see it this way, but that is the way I understand it.
If we're to believe the Revelation of John in any literal sense, it would have to be with his vision that peace and harmony in nature would be restored so that the lion and lamb truly could co-exist.
You see this manifestation in a person who's very existence is in serious doubt.

Since you seem to put so much stock in this epic "Fall" then you must have information on the approximate time period this occurred. Can you position this event sometime in Earths history? It might also be helpful to know exactly where this Garden was located. The time frame is much more important so we can find a time in Earths history were animals began eating each other. If we can establish that time frame we can sync it up with what Paleontologists know about early animal life and their eating habits. It would go a long way towards actual evidence for exactly when God chose to withdraw his presents. Do you have information on what point in Earth's history were God decided to withdraw his presents? As soon as we have these time frames established we can continue with our dialog.
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

#172392 Jul 16, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, all history that we haven't witnessed is hearsay if we're passing on the tradition. Here's an example for your consideration.
My great great grandfather fought in the 3 day Battle of Gettysburg during the American Civil War, and was wounded on the first day. He was a member of the 76th NY Infantry from Cortland County. I was told this by my mother. She was told this by her mother, and she was told by her mother, and she was told by her mother and father. What proof do I have in my possession? I have a copy of his pension from the War Department, and a digital copy of a young man in civil war attire, holding a derringer. Our family has preserved the stories he told his daughter (my great-grandmother) about the things he did and the things he witnessed. She passed that on to her daughter (my grandmother), who in turn passed it down to my mother, who in turn passed it down to me. It's been 150 years since the battle. I have an oral tradition that hasn't been exaggerated, I have a single piece of paper detailing a pension for a war injury, and a digital copy of a grainy black and white image of a young man in civil war attire. That's all I have. Now if I cross check, I can know that the 76th NY Infantry fought on the first day of the battle. There's one single stone monument that marks the position of the 76th NY Infantry on July 1st 1863. That's it. Nothing more to know in relation to my grandfather being at this historic event from 150 years ago. At best, my family history is circumstantial. It's hearsay. I never met my great-great-grandfather. Nobody ever wrote a book about him, yet he existed. Do you doubt anything I've told you about my great-great-grandfather?
In comparison, with Jesus, we have at least 2 hostile secular accounts from hostile sources, and we have 4 sources that were friendly (the gospels). None of them are contemporary, and they don't NEED to be. Nobody wrote down my great-great-grandfather's account of what it was like to lay wounded on the battlefield for 2 days before receiving any first-aid whatsoever, until about 10 years ago. It was always maintained in family stories that NEVER changed or exaggerated any detail.
My point? There's more written evidence for Jesus from 2,000 years ago, than there is for my great-great-grandfather from just 150 years ago. Of course you'll claim that my great-great-grandfather's existence is irrelevant to this conversation. Do you know why it's irrelevant? Because your eternal future isn't at stake or dependent upon the existence of my great-great-grandfather.
If you look at every argument that you reject for the existence of Jesus, despite the fact that we repeat the same information, your own emotional bias comes shining through like the sun. If we wanted to make this up to convince you, why would we keep repeating the same arguments? Wouldn't we make up new arguments? What possible motive could I have to get you to change your heart and mind? It's not like I'm going to make any money off my efforts. I'm not going to get extra credit in the after-life. I'm not looking for bragging rights. I'm not running for office. What can I possibly gain?
Believing in the existence of my great-great-grandfather doesn't require any internal change of heart. But believing in Jesus does, and there is the difference.
I'm sorry you're just wrong o this point. I never witnessed the Civil War, WW 1, WW2, yet I know through physical evidence, pictorial and movie documentation, that these events happened. I didn't need "hearsay" to know they happened. As long as there is physical evidence then we don't have to relay on hearsay. We have physical evidence for those who ruled the Egyptian empire, the same basic time period for your Jesus, but not one shred of physical evidence for him.
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

#172393 Jul 16, 2013
sorry for the double post above.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#172394 Jul 16, 2013
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell that to the kids and their parents.
With knowledge comes better coping skills. It also helps find a cure quicker.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#172395 Jul 16, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes-- yes you are.
More to the point? Sweden is far more secular than the USA, and has a much higher standard of living, a higher average salary per person, a much lower per-person crime rate too.
A much lower dead-baby rate as well (per 1000 births)-- cannot forget the number of infants who **die** here in the good old USA, due to the unfortunate circumstances of their births.
All in all? A much better place to live than here-- on average.
Personally? I blame your success on your mostly godless lifestyles.
<laughing>
How ironic, so do I!

Oh dear, now they'll call us unpatriotic as well as hellbound;0)

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#172396 Jul 16, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:

"What do we really have to lose if an intelligent designer did start the process, and has a personal vested interest in us? If an intelligent designer is interested in us, what possible motive is there for us to deny such a being?"

What have we gained if an intelligent designer did start the process? I can't see any evidence that any entity is interested in us.

We are simply here whatever the cause, nothing has designed us in a 'foolproof' manner. We have physical and mental frailties and our bodies wear out and die. Surely an all powerful deity could do better than that.

Our 'design' improves with evolution and circumstances beyond our control, we adapt or go extinct. Again, we are here and that's good....for us, isn't that enough? The rest is speculation without proof.

“Sweden more democratic thanUSA”

Since: Jun 12

Södertälje, Sweden

#172397 Jul 16, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>We have better teeth.
You are wrong!

“Sweden more democratic thanUSA”

Since: Jun 12

Södertälje, Sweden

#172398 Jul 16, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes-- yes you are.
More to the point? Sweden is far more secular than the USA, and has a much higher standard of living, a higher average salary per person, a much lower per-person crime rate too.
A much lower dead-baby rate as well (per 1000 births)-- cannot forget the number of infants who **die** here in the good old USA, due to the unfortunate circumstances of their births.
All in all? A much better place to live than here-- on average.
Personally? I blame your success on your mostly godless lifestyles.
<laughing>
It's good to be here :P
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#172399 Jul 17, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
1) science has proven that there was no single couple that started humankind. We came from groups-- evolution works on species, never on individuals.
Since this is clearly true-- there never was an Adam nor Eve to fall.
2) let's pretend there was an Adam/Eve: the whole ugly tale is basically one of a god, punishing the innocent descendants, for the failures of their ancestors.
It's as if the teacher punishes the entire 3rd grade class of 2013, because of what a class in 1895 did ...
... only much-much worse-- from a **god** I expect superior morality than that.
3) let's pretend that the Garden of Eden story was real. There is only one character in that tale, according to the bible, who did not lie.
Do you know which character it was?
Hint: it wasn't Adam. Nor Eve. Nor god.
It was the snake-- he tells the unvarnished facts about life, to Eve.
Bible-god lies, though-- he promises Adam that the **very** day he eats the forbidden fruit, he will die.
Did Adam die on that day? No-- according to the story, he lives for thousands of days beyond that fateful day.
God lied. Adam lied. Eve lied. Only the snake tells the unvarnished truth.
You have to understand that the story of the garden is allegorical and not meant to be taken literally. The snake was Adam and a part of his anatomy. Adam and Eve were naked, so it was out there and after their sin they knew they were naked. God gave Adam and Eve two commands both regarding sex, one positive-be fruitful and multiply, and one negative-no sodomy. The fruit was not literally an apple, Adam was the tree of knowledge and he deceived Eve into oral sex. Adam was told not to eat from the tree of knowledge before Eve was created. When confronted by God, Adam blames Eve for performing the act and God for giving him the woman. God asked Adam what he did to give him the opportunity to confess. Adam, the ground, and the serpent were all cursed. Eve, who told the truth, was doomed to labor in childbirth and her desire would be to her husband. This was in part a sexual desire. If there is such a thing as original sin, only males inherit it. You've heard the saying, "All men are dogs".
Thinking

York, UK

#172400 Jul 17, 2013
Frankie Boyle is referring to the burning bush of the bible, not the confused one that thinks pretzels are hewn from Kryptonite.
Joe Fortuna wrote:
<quoted text>
:O):O), You know what surprise me the most, I voted for him twice, well actually I voted against kerry and gore
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#172403 Jul 17, 2013
Covert Stealth Op wrote:
<quoted text>We get it, your god is allegorical and it product of your feminism. Have you heard the saying "All women are female dogs called B's"? The story that you describe should be Dad and Susan, not Adam and Eve. That is the only explanation.
Not only was Eve Adams' wife, she was also his daughter. I am definitely the second or seed of Eve and Adam is my father. When he died, his name was changed to Satan and sodomy was his earliest abuse. The Messiah will crush the head of the serpent and he's in the Guiness book of world records for the biggest serpent in the world. Isaiah 27:1 OKJV "Leviathan" means huge serpent and I'm going to get him for the "crucifixion" and the witnesses will come forward Psalm 22:30. Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#172404 Jul 17, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>you have no quality of life without Jesus Christ in your life! you don't get that just by attending church picking your nose.. YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN!! SAVED FROM YOUR SIN
In doing just fine without Jesus, thank you very much.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#172405 Jul 17, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
Im tired of you chumps going over and over and over the same old crap! Im riding off with total victory !!!!!!!!!!

Clownie 100
atheist 0
Pigeon chess.

“Incorrupta fides, nudaque veri”

Since: May 07

Vincit qui se vincit

#172406 Jul 17, 2013
Ricky F wrote:
<quoted text>I've only received a couple warnings in my time and one of them was for no reason at all, I guess I used one of their filtered words? lol
I've heard of that as well from a couple hard core posters over the years.

You know you may be the oldest registered poster on Topix?

You started a mere 10 days after this post was made back when Topix was new and no one was registering yet.

Here is the what I believe to be the first post on Topix made in 2005. A while back I went on a search of the first post ever made on Topix, digging down at the end of each of the main forums and I went pages back and found this post.

World forums - 12/29/2005
http://www.topix.com/forum/world/TA443NUKIEDE...

“Incorrupta fides, nudaque veri”

Since: May 07

Vincit qui se vincit

#172407 Jul 17, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
The automatic warnings, everyone gets from time to time-- their filters are silly.
But I've heard from other posters, that occasionally they got an actual e-mail warning from the topix moderators.
I've never seen one myself, but I've had PM conversations with other posters who have had.
By the way, I miss your old avatar that you used for so long, that was awesome!

“Incorrupta fides, nudaque veri”

Since: May 07

Vincit qui se vincit

#172408 Jul 17, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
And what am I, chopped liver? I don't have the posts under my belt that you guys/gals do, but I have survived;0)
lol, no not at all, I didn't notice at the time since I didn't know you and really I don't know him very well but I've seen him a lot over the years and anyone that can make it this long has my respect! You and I are like twin brothers age wise!

Post count doesn't mean that much anyway, it's the quality not quantity.

Nice to meet you!

“Incorrupta fides, nudaque veri”

Since: May 07

Vincit qui se vincit

#172409 Jul 17, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>We have better teeth.
lol

“Incorrupta fides, nudaque veri”

Since: May 07

Vincit qui se vincit

#172410 Jul 17, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
The automatic warnings, everyone gets from time to time-- their filters are silly.
But I've heard from other posters, that occasionally they got an actual e-mail warning from the topix moderators.
I've never seen one myself, but I've had PM conversations with other posters who have had.
You should get an all Topix pass or get out of jail free card for possible being the first registered poster on Topix? lol

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#172411 Jul 17, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
Moreover, population studies are very clear: you cannot sustain a population with just a single initial breeding pair. The population would have too many fatal defects.
This is all basic biology here.
A specific population can't be sustained by just a single pair. That much is true. But I'm not interested in sustaining. What interests me is how the process starts.

It would seem that you would need two creatures that have reached sexual maturity at the same chronological point in time, in the same location, that they would successfully mate and produce offspring that could also repeat this process. That's what interests me. Where or how do these two biological creatures come into contact at the right place, at the right time, with the optimum health needed to reproduce and carry on?

Since: Mar 11

Surrey Hills, Australia

#172412 Jul 17, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Perhaps what you saw was a piece on how bone marrow is thought to be the silver bullet when it comes to Aids. Bone marrow treatments have given HIV patients some amazing results to be sure.
<quoted text>
No, they said two men no longer have it after the "transplant" not treatment.

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