Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258040 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#172159 Jul 15, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't read Dan Brown-- so I cannot say one way or another.
But you are wrong on at least one point: the group had decided to put Revelations into the apochraphia[sp] group-- but Constantine required an exclusivity clause for his newly-minted religion, so he could justify forcing by violence people to join his new club.
It's on record that Constantine overrode the will of the group in that regard.
So I have no doubts at all, that he also used his force of personality, to override other decisions too.
It does appear Constantine suffered from a massive dose of hubris, after all.
And that rather puts a negative spin on the whole project.
The inclusion of Revelations as I understand it was hotly contested. Many didn't want it included. But the Council of Nicea wasn't about canonizing the NT, but about unifying the Church as a whole.

The Church historian Eusebius was believed to be on friendly terms with Constantine, so we can't be sure how much bias there was in his accounts. This is an honest and fair thing to say. But in light of that, there is no reason to believe that Eusebius was dishonest either. Unless there are very good reasons to dismiss Eusebius' account of what happened at Nicea, then it is generally conceded that his account is accurate.

As I understand it, Constantine did listen at the council, and did offer ideas and suggestions, but not as the sole authority. He basically appointed himself as judge or speaker of the house, for the purpose of keeping order during the council. His main concern was order and peace rather than theological doctrine. This he largely left to the bishops.

We can get into a long discussion about Constantine if you wish.

Oh by the way-

With regard to the story of the store keeper and snooty customer, I think I understand the difference in our opinions. I interpreted it as a story of moral principle,(like one of Aesop's Fables) while you understood it in the context of business ethics. From your viewpoint, within that context, you would be correct. I think this is one of the differences that keep atheists and theists from understanding each other. Our perspectives are different, and so are our concerns.

Joe Fortuna

Arcata, CA

#172160 Jul 15, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes-- I agree completely. Two evils do not add up to a "good".
Both people were arrogant in the story.
Both offered evil instead of good.
But the customer's evil was a small thing-- some rudeness. He was in the inferior position, having a need.
The store owner offered evil in return--instead of overlooking that small evil, and possibly making a sale. At a nice, profit-- he **was** in the superior position here, having the goods for sale.
He could have been unctuously polite, and double-charged the smartazz-- why not? He had a monopoly on small stores in that area.
He could have done it with a winning smile, knowing full well the nice profit he was making off of a fool.
Now **that** would have been a funny story.
:D
:O) I always have a smile for my customers, rude or not.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172161 Jul 15, 2013
Joe Fortuna wrote:
<quoted text>
So the good you see in your story is the store owner teaching the customer a lesson by acting the same way?
Yeah... I don't get that either.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172162 Jul 15, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
The inclusion of Revelations as I understand it was hotly contested. Many didn't want it included. But the Council of Nicea wasn't about canonizing the NT, but about unifying the Church as a whole.
The Church historian Eusebius was believed to be on friendly terms with Constantine, so we can't be sure how much bias there was in his accounts. This is an honest and fair thing to say. But in light of that, there is no reason to believe that Eusebius was dishonest either. Unless there are very good reasons to dismiss Eusebius' account of what happened at Nicea, then it is generally conceded that his account is accurate.
As I understand it, Constantine did listen at the council, and did offer ideas and suggestions, but not as the sole authority. He basically appointed himself as judge or speaker of the house, for the purpose of keeping order during the council. His main concern was order and peace rather than theological doctrine. This he largely left to the bishops.
We can get into a long discussion about Constantine if you wish.
Yes, I remember that it was hotly contested. I also remember that much of the NT was nearly as equally in discussion.

Which, from where I sit, does not speak well for the message it's trying to say.

I expect a message from god, to be.. well, godly.

By that, I mean that the message ought to be so amazingly and obviously divine, that it needs neither an introduction nor an explanation.

Nothing in the bible even comes close.

But that's for another time, I suppose.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#172163 Jul 15, 2013
Joe Fortuna wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I was, but I've changed myself, thanks for noticing
why do atheist $#&T in their pants?

Since: Mar 11

Henderson, KY

#172164 Jul 15, 2013
I deleted your rambling. Cower away because when asked a question you cower away.

I came to my conclusion on the NT based on secular historical findings. When you study the history of the region and time period you see several examples of former messiah son of god, die and raise from the dead 3 days later.

Your titanic example has no merit in this case because they did not wait decades if not over a century to document the tragedy, also we still have eye witnesses to the event yes?

We have documentation from the years Jesus was said to walk the earth in his area about fishing disputes and pottery techniques. Historical documentation of a Roman soldier getting a promotion for Pete's sake... But this guy who rises from the grave bringing hundreds of formerly dead Jewish prophets with him doesn't get noticed?

Hmmmm he must have done it on a busy day at the fish market or during a pottery sale eh?

And yes you have no answer for this, I expect you will cower away or try to change the subject.
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Cower away?

Would you please clarify your statement?
<quoted text>
Okay, how did you come to that conclusion?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172165 Jul 15, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
With regard to the story of the store keeper and snooty customer, I think I understand the difference in our opinions. I interpreted it as a story of moral principle,(like one of Aesop's Fables) while you understood it in the context of business ethics. From your viewpoint, within that context, you would be correct. I think this is one of the differences that keep atheists and theists from understanding each other. Our perspectives are different, and so are our concerns.
Even as a parable, the story fails. The store owner returned rudeness with even worse rudeness.

At worst, the smartazz would-be customer insulted the store owner and/or his store. Big deal. As a public servant, he ought to be quite used to such boorish behavior by now.

But what he did in return? He caused deliberate harm! He wasted the entire afternoon of the other man, and possibly got him dangerously lost-- could have happened.

All because of his pride.

Two rude behaviors do not a lesson teach.

Since: Mar 11

Henderson, KY

#172166 Jul 15, 2013
Hmmm I'll wait for you to be able to factually prove me wrong okay Senile Dave?:)
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I am waiting for your diaper to be changed.
You are a little stinky butt.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#172167 Jul 15, 2013
Joe Fortuna wrote:
<quoted text>
:O) I always have a smile for my customers, rude or not.
a male ho like you should smile after gargling a pair

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172168 Jul 15, 2013
Joe Fortuna wrote:
<quoted text>
:O) I always have a smile for my customers, rude or not.
As do I.

It costs me nothing-- and if they are a bit rude? My smile rubs it in that I'm taking the high road, and they are not.

:D

I'd much rather be a bit smug, as I take the checks to the bank, than to get the dubious "satisfaction" of one-upping a now-former customer...

Since: Mar 11

Henderson, KY

#172169 Jul 15, 2013
Funny how they cringe in fear when you ask them what church they attend eh? Totally ashamed of their church.
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>why do you want to know About Bro. Love's traveling salvaction show???

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172170 Jul 15, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
As I understand it, Constantine did listen at the council, and did offer ideas and suggestions, but not as the sole authority. He basically appointed himself as judge or speaker of the house, for the purpose of keeping order during the council. His main concern was order and peace rather than theological doctrine. This he largely left to the bishops.
If he was merely judge, then why-- over the objections of nearly everyone there-- why did he railroad Revelations into cannon?

Unless he had an agenda to fulfill....

Since: Mar 11

Henderson, KY

#172171 Jul 15, 2013
Oh a picture of Jesus!
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>you can kiss some of this Christhole (_*_)

Since: Mar 11

Henderson, KY

#172172 Jul 15, 2013
The vote was against revelations being put in the bible... Yes all of the books in your myth were voted on like a top 10 video count down. The words of God voted on and placed in by non believers lol!

And I won't even get into all of the books that were rewritten and heavily edited at the different councils... Oh yes there was more than one.
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
The inclusion of Revelations as I understand it was hotly contested. Many didn't want it included. But the Council of Nicea wasn't about canonizing the NT, but about unifying the Church as a whole.
The Church historian Eusebius was believed to be on friendly terms with Constantine, so we can't be sure how much bias there was in his accounts. This is an honest and fair thing to say. But in light of that, there is no reason to believe that Eusebius was dishonest either. Unless there are very good reasons to dismiss Eusebius' account of what happened at Nicea, then it is generally conceded that his account is accurate.
As I understand it, Constantine did listen at the council, and did offer ideas and suggestions, but not as the sole authority. He basically appointed himself as judge or speaker of the house, for the purpose of keeping order during the council. His main concern was order and peace rather than theological doctrine. This he largely left to the bishops.
We can get into a long discussion about Constantine if you wish.
Oh by the way-
With regard to the story of the store keeper and snooty customer, I think I understand the difference in our opinions. I interpreted it as a story of moral principle,(like one of Aesop's Fables) while you understood it in the context of business ethics. From your viewpoint, within that context, you would be correct. I think this is one of the differences that keep atheists and theists from understanding each other. Our perspectives are different, and so are our concerns.

Since: Mar 11

Henderson, KY

#172173 Jul 15, 2013
Yahweh/Jesus must have been too damn busy at that pottery sale that took historical precedence over the documenting of Jesus.

Fantastic bargains were to be had after all!:))
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
If he was merely judge, then why-- over the objections of nearly everyone there-- why did he railroad Revelations into cannon?
Unless he had an agenda to fulfill....

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172174 Jul 15, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Yahweh/Jesus must have been too damn busy at that pottery sale that took historical precedence over the documenting of Jesus.
Fantastic bargains were to be had after all!:))
<quoted text>
Indeed.

If Jesus was historical, and was divine?

Why did he not take **godly** steps to ensure his message-- his unambiguous message-- made it properly through history?

It's almost as if he wanted it to become garbled.

Or?

As if he was busy elsewhere....

....!!!

<grin>

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#172175 Jul 15, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Oh a picture of Jesus!
<quoted text>
now you believe Jesus exist!!!! way to go
Joe Fortuna

Arcata, CA

#172176 Jul 15, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>why do atheist $#&T in their pants?
I didn't know they did, after they where older than one or two.

“Jon Snow”

Since: Dec 10

The King in the Nor±h

#172177 Jul 15, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
But the Council of Nicea wasn't about canonizing the NT, but about unifying the Church as a whole.
Get one thing clear in your mind here.

The Council of Nicea was to solidify an Empire, to do so meant.

To make the made up bull shit match, so everybody could be taught to believe the same lies.

Cant have one side the Empire arguing about the color of holy underwear with the other. We all gots to have the same underpants. AND by my decree , from this day forward ...It is the word of GOD!

Since: Mar 11

Henderson, KY

#172178 Jul 15, 2013
No, you could make a picture of Homer Simpson the same way but that doesn't mean that I would believe that Homer Simpson was anything more than a work of fiction.

In desperation mode trying to change the subject I see. When I asked you what church you belonged to you ran and hid as expected. So ashamed of your religion eh? You must be a Mormon or something.
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>now you believe Jesus exist!!!! way to go

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Top Stories Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Roman Catholic church only true church, says Va... (Jul '07) 3 min hojo 665,307
The Christian Atheist debate (Jun '15) 7 min Aura Mytha 88,110
Secular Humanism VS Christianity 7 min USAUSAUSA 124
News Medicare looms over Trump-Ryan alliance 11 min Taco-smacko 2
The Future of Politics in America 14 min Buck Crick 222
Prove there's a god. (Mar '08) 14 min New Age Spiritual... 977,292
Bush is a hero (Sep '07) 18 min LAWEST100 184,720
Christians cannot debate with ATHEISTS 30 min Buck Crick 551
More from around the web