Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 244751 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#171551 Jul 10, 2013
The Tacitus Jesus line is a miserable forgery placed in his work centuries later. Even then if we accept the forgery, he did not meet Jesus or was even alive at the time. He like in the Josephus forgeries is merely stating what Christians state.

Stating what believers state in no way offers proof that Jesus existed. Josephus for example mentions Hercules over a dozen times! These are not forgeries and go back to all of the oldest copies of his work. Shall we accept Hercules the son of Zeus really existed then?

1: So a minor joker like Jesus Ben Pantera merits several historical mentions but the messiah who walked on water and raises the dead can't get a mere mention anywhere? Lol!

2: We have a wealth of such documents so this is a lame childish argument. Are you suggesting the scrolls about Jesus Ben Pantera were more valuable than your messiah's? Lol! Way to insult your god!

3: Even your buddy Bart the former evangelical and current apologetic friendly agnostic (hardly atheist leaning) says there are far too many errors and contradictions in the bible to be taken seriously as historically accurate. Dave doesn't as a lol deist only argue that Jesus existed, he defends the words and myths about him and even Paul with the vigor of a Christian apologetic even using Christian apologetic arguments. More and more scholars are now saying the evidence for Jesus existing falls flat.

Care to fail again?
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>Tacitus was a Roman official and a historian, and did write that Jesus existed. Now it's true that Tacitus didn't live in the same time as Jesus, but then again many people who write factual accounts aren't witnesses of what they write.

Assuming that somebody from Jesus' own time just had to write about him is a thin assumption for two reasons.

1) Just because other people in a specific time period are written about does not necessarily mean that others are.

2) Just because we don't have anything from Jesus how long is a 2,000 year old document supposed to last?

Now let me add a third item of interest for consideration in this discussion.

Atheists say the bible can't be used to prove the bible which is good reasoning because that's a circular argument.
Dave Nelson claims to be a deist and still argues for the historical existence of Jesus of Nazareth does not mean he is a Christian.

The entire Jesus as myth argument is just lazy and contemptible in my opinion, and here's why I feel that way.

When there's a mountain of evidence that most scholars agree on.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#171552 Jul 10, 2013
Oh listen to the children scream when you tell them Santa Socrates didn't exist.

See how their intellectual integrity degenerates into emotional outbursts when their mythical creatures are challenged.

Wah!!! He has to be real!! Look at the presents he left us!

Wah!!!!

What is funny is Butch not seeing a similarity between Socrates and Jesus after so much ranting about Jesus being an amalgamation of mythical stories. Perhaps "his" emotional balance got disturbed when his idol got challenged.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#171553 Jul 10, 2013
Very well said.
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>I told you before that dog won't hunt

Tacitus

Like those of the Jewish writer Josephus, the works of the ancient historians Pliny, Suetonius and Tacitus do not provide proof that Jesus Christ ever existed as a "historical" character.

Pliny the Younger, Roman Official and Historian (62-113 CE)

Tacitus, Roman Politician and Historian,(c. 56-120 CE)

Suetonius, Roman Historian (c. 69-c. 122 CE)

When addressing the mythical nature of Jesus Christ, one issue repeatedly raised is the purported "evidence" of his existence to be found in the writings of Flavius Josephus, the famed Jewish general and historian who lived from about 37 to 100 CE.

In Josephus's Antiquities of the Jews appears the notorious passage regarding Christ called the "Testimonium Flavianum" ("TF"):

"Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,--a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."

The are: No sculptures, no drawings, no markings in stone, nothing written in his own hand; and no letters, no commentaries, indeed no authentic documents written by his Jewish and Gentile contemporaries, Justice of Tiberius, Philo, Josephus, Seneca, Petronius Arbiter, Pliny the Elder, et al., to lend credence to his historicity."

In the final analysis there is no evidence that the biblical character called "Jesus Christ" ever existed.

All of these historians were born well after the alleged events.

'Hearsay' only, No different than native American religions, myths carried down through the generations.

Caesar by comparison is easily verified.
So are the Egyptian pharaohs

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#171554 Jul 10, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
I told you before that dog won't hunt
Tacitus
Like those of the Jewish writer Josephus, the works of the ancient historians Pliny, Suetonius and Tacitus do not provide proof that Jesus Christ ever existed as a "historical" character.
Pliny the Younger, Roman Official and Historian (62-113 CE)
Tacitus, Roman Politician and Historian,(c. 56-120 CE)
Suetonius, Roman Historian (c. 69-c. 122 CE)
When addressing the mythical nature of Jesus Christ, one issue repeatedly raised is the purported "evidence" of his existence to be found in the writings of Flavius Josephus, the famed Jewish general and historian who lived from about 37 to 100 CE.
In Josephus's Antiquities of the Jews appears the notorious passage regarding Christ called the "Testimonium Flavianum" ("TF"):
"Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,--a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."
The are: No sculptures, no drawings, no markings in stone, nothing written in his own hand; and no letters, no commentaries, indeed no authentic documents written by his Jewish and Gentile contemporaries, Justice of Tiberius, Philo, Josephus, Seneca, Petronius Arbiter, Pliny the Elder, et al., to lend credence to his historicity."
In the final analysis there is no evidence that the biblical character called "Jesus Christ" ever existed.
All of these historians were born well after the alleged events.
'Hearsay' only, No different than native American religions, myths carried down through the generations.
OMG I can't help but laugh and shake my head in contemptuous amazement and amusement. Look back over your posts. It's all bias on your side of the argument. The fact is that you don't WANT Jesus to have existed. The evidence we do have is as good as it's going to get which tells me just one thing. You're either incredibly unrealistic, or flat out lazy in your arguments. He existed like it or not as Bart Ehrman says. Debate whether or not he rose from the dead. Debate whether or not he did miracles. But debate his existence? History is hearsay. ALL OF HISTORY is hearsay. Did Lincoln live? Did Ben Franklin live? Did Martin Luther live?
Imhotep

Howey In The Hills, FL

#171555 Jul 10, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
It is believed that the monk Eusebius was responsible for much of the “fraudulent” editing of Josephus work
He was such a good christian
The root issue for me always has been credibility.

Until such time as the historicity of these individuals is proven they are only the stuff of legend.

Ramesses II is one of the more popular candidates for the Pharaoh of the Exodus yarn.

We have his mummy. What ever happened to Moses and his remains?

Ramses did not record any of the events credited to Moses and he was good at carving his name everywhere in Egypt - considering he lived some 90 years and fathered over 160 children.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_II

Je vois combien de fois vous commentiez sur la nourriture.

Aliments je pense que vous devriez essayer que vous n'avez probablement pas être Européen.

Nourriture des Caraïbes, en particulier la Jamaïque, la zone Antilles où assaisonnement jerk est dominant.

Café Blue Mountain de la Jamaïque est à mon avis le meilleur dans le monde.

Style américain cuisine créole, visitez la Nouvelle-Orléans.

Barbecue classique, visiter la plupart tout État méridional. Chacun prétend être le meilleur!

Et une nouvelle ride sur un repas vieux, dinde frit!
(Deep fried in oil)

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#171556 Jul 10, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
Oh listen to the children scream when you tell them Santa Socrates didn't exist.
See how their intellectual integrity degenerates into emotional outbursts when their mythical creatures are challenged.
Wah!!! He has to be real!! Look at the presents he left us!
Wah!!!!
What is funny is Butch not seeing a similarity between Socrates and Jesus after so much ranting about Jesus being an amalgamation of mythical stories. Perhaps "his" emotional balance got disturbed when his idol got challenged.
Funny thing is there has never – EVER been a religion based on Socrates teachings, even though there is considerable circumstantial evidence for his existence

As for the other bod, again the only evidence is circumstantial taken from a book compiled by committee some 300+ years after his supposed death. Over the next 1300 years there proliferated many different versions of the book that it was re-compiled by committee from (and I quote)

“The ordinary Bible, read in the church, commonly called the Bishop’s Bible, to be followed, and as little altered as the original will permit.”

“These translations to be used when they agree better with the text than the Bishop’s Bible, viz. Tyndale’s, Coverdale’s, Matthew’s, Wilchurch’s,* Geneva.”

Then of course over the next 400 years there has become at least 50 English versions and who known how many other languages and around 40,000 different versions of the faith

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#171557 Jul 10, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do think that's a legit reason that time can exist from nothing.(Which of course is impossible)
Uncaused - is this the name of your Deity?
Causality requires time: it links a caused event to an earlier causing event.

Because causality requires time to already exist, it is impossible for time itself to be caused. In other words, it did not 'come from' anything.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#171558 Jul 10, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny thing is there has never – EVER been a religion based on Socrates teachings, even though there is considerable circumstantial evidence for his existence
As for the other bod, again the only evidence is circumstantial taken from a book compiled by committee some 300+ years after his supposed death. Over the next 1300 years there proliferated many different versions of the book that it was re-compiled by committee from (and I quote)
“The ordinary Bible, read in the church, commonly called the Bishop’s Bible, to be followed, and as little altered as the original will permit.”
“These translations to be used when they agree better with the text than the Bishop’s Bible, viz. Tyndale’s, Coverdale’s, Matthew’s, Wilchurch’s,* Geneva.”
Then of course over the next 400 years there has become at least 50 English versions and who known how many other languages and around 40,000 different versions of the faith
There is no difference between Socrates preaching a moral view and way of thinking, and from what I understand a belief in a divine being, and a Jesus doing the same thing. Especially when there is a remarkable similarity in those views and the way they have been promogulated.

Both were pains in the ass to the establishment. Both died because of it. Both added to the moral and spiritual values of mankind.

You and a few others on here fancy yourselves as a Socrates, being a pain in the ass to the establishment, but that is as far as you are going to get. Hero worship without understanding the hero. Clay models of real life.

Good morning, lovey.

<smooch>

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#171559 Jul 10, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Again he was a secular philosopher not a religious figure and he did not start a religion based on Socrates. He believed in a god, yawn, so what?
You are humiliating yourself Dave.... Again.
<quoted text>
Actually, Plato was quite mystical. His 'analogy of the cave' is deeply mystical and non-secular. later, neo-platonism, was even more mystical and Christianity picked up a lot of its mysticism from neo-platonism. And yes, Plato *did* start a religion of a sort when he founded the Academy.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#171560 Jul 10, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
The root issue for me always has been credibility.
Until such time as the historicity of these individuals is proven they are only the stuff of legend.
Ramesses II is one of the more popular candidates for the Pharaoh of the Exodus yarn.
We have his mummy. What ever happened to Moses and his remains?
Ramses did not record any of the events credited to Moses and he was good at carving his name everywhere in Egypt - considering he lived some 90 years and fathered over 160 children.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_II
Je vois combien de fois vous commentiez sur la nourriture.
Aliments je pense que vous devriez essayer que vous n'avez probablement pas être Européen.
Nourriture des Caraïbes, en particulier la Jamaïque, la zone Antilles où assaisonnement jerk est dominant.
Café Blue Mountain de la Jamaïque est à mon avis le meilleur dans le monde.
Style américain cuisine créole, visitez la Nouvelle-Orléans.
Barbecue classique, visiter la plupart tout État méridional. Chacun prétend être le meilleur!
Et une nouvelle ride sur un repas vieux, dinde frit!
(Deep fried in oil)
I agree, evidence is the key, I have done quite a lot of reading on Ramses and nowhere is (his supposed friend) Moses mentioned

Je fais comme la nourriture des Caraïbes et de la nourriture créole. Vraiment j'aime presque tous les aliments

Frit Turquie, a été connu ici depuis des années, laissé par le dîner de Noël, personnellement, je préfère le confit de canard

Mais le café Blue Mountain est beaucoup trop faible à mon goût, j'aime le caféà moi wow. J'ai mon propre mélange de 10% yéménite moka, 50%(espresso torréfié) arabica et 40% Taylors après sombre
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#171561 Jul 10, 2013
atheism is evil wrote:
<quoted text>
If the accounts of the Bible did not occur, then why didn't a group of atheists ever "free think" to write an anti-Bible? I think we all know they are liars.
Too funny. There is no need to write an "anti-bible" all one has to do is read the present version. There is enough immorality, cruelty, debauchery, genocide, and hilariously funny attempts at science, to convince anyone with even a 5th grade education, that the bible is already an "anti-bible."

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#171562 Jul 10, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
In other words you made it up.
<quoted text>
just like a evolution a huge whopper
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#171563 Jul 10, 2013
atheism is evil wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes it was documented , you lying bigot.
You apparently do not know the difference between documentation and fictitious stories. Do try and do better!!!

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#171564 Jul 10, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree, evidence is the key, I have done quite a lot of reading on Ramses and nowhere is (his supposed friend) Moses mentioned
Je fais comme la nourriture des Caraïbes et de la nourriture créole. Vraiment j'aime presque tous les aliments
Frit Turquie, a été connu ici depuis des années, laissé par le dîner de Noël, personnellement, je préfère le confit de canard
Mais le café Blue Mountain est beaucoup trop faible à mon goût, j'aime le caféà moi wow. J'ai mon propre mélange de 10% yéménite moka, 50%(espresso torréfié) arabica et 40% Taylors après sombre
you got to read something besides comic books

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#171565 Jul 10, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, Plato was quite mystical. His 'analogy of the cave' is deeply mystical and non-secular. later, neo-platonism, was even more mystical and Christianity picked up a lot of its mysticism from neo-platonism. And yes, Plato *did* start a religion of a sort when he founded the Academy.
Why, thank you!

You are a gentleman and a scholar.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#171567 Jul 10, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no difference between Socrates preaching a moral view and way of thinking, and from what I understand a belief in a divine being, and a Jesus doing the same thing. Especially when there is a remarkable similarity in those views and the way they have been promogulated.
Both were pains in the ass to the establishment. Both died because of it. Both added to the moral and spiritual values of mankind.
You and a few others on here fancy yourselves as a Socrates, being a pain in the ass to the establishment, but that is as far as you are going to get. Hero worship without understanding the hero. Clay models of real life.
Good morning, lovey.
<smooch>
The difference is once creates a philosophy that helped build a civilisation, the other is the source of a religion that has hounded and hectored every non devotee for 2000 years

There you go again, rabbiting davesworld BS. You may have noticed that in every single on of my posts has been a response to some fool preaching, including you.

FYI, I am a part of that establishment you so ignorantly claim I am a pain in the ass too. It may not be your god given establishment because I don’t live in godville, daveswotrld but that is bedside the point.

What you cannot understand will always confuse you because you appear to have forgotten how to learn

I am going to tell you one more time, your chauvinistic advances are not welcome. Following this there will be no more warnings.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#171568 Jul 10, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>you got to read something besides comic books
Is that christrian guesswork you are employing again, what have we told you about making yourself look stupid?

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#171569 Jul 10, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that christrian guesswork you are employing again, what have we told you about making yourself look stupid?
don't hate because Im smarter than you!

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Södertälje, Sweden

#171570 Jul 10, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>just like a evolution a huge whopper
Don't go to the doctor you'll have to go to the homeopath real medicine is made with the help of evolution

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#171572 Jul 10, 2013
Mikko wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't go to the doctor you'll have to go to the homeopath real medicine is made with the help of evolution
evolution is a lie ..... there are christian doc's I perfer!!!!!!!

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