Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 247380 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Favorite Adversary

Brooklyn, NY

#170727 Jul 3, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>many of the Atheists here, including myself, feel that religion is a danger to our society, it always has been. Religion is divisive and pigeonholes individual groups into clans. Each feeling their religion is the ONLY true one. Each clan draws an insurmountable line in the sand, and once crossed all sort of violent behavior insures.
People who believe things for NO good reason are dangerous. People who have NEVER met, know nothing about the other, have no problem wishing them eternal torture in lakes of fire. That is what religion brings. No true unity of the human race can ever happen with hundreds of exclusive clubs claiming ownership over the others.
I consider this a war for our species, a war against the poison that religion brings to our species. I come here at times just to marvel at the unbelievable ignorance displayed by those of religion, and am constantly awed by the dedication that Theists have over a totally unsupported belief. They build their entire lives and those around them on things that are only imagined, so substance, no evidence, only delusion. I find it pitiful!!!!!
I like this post of yours and Jesus would agree with much of it. Religion does do a lot of damage. But Christianity as started by Jesus through His sacrifice and resurrection wasn't intended to be a "religion." It was supposed to be "the way" to eternal life in the presence of God.

"Religion" is a man-made construct to make sense and regulate beliefs and behaviors. Jesus came to denounce "religion" and to show that the true way to God was through Him alone; not religion.
Sadly, many who self-identified as Christians have done horrible things to one another and to non-Christians as well. Their actions disqualify them from identity as "Christians."

Think of it this way:

If a doctor sedates a patient and then takes advantage of the patient for his own sexual desires, he has betrayed his trust and obligations, and therefore no longer deserves to be called a doctor, correct?

If a police officer pulls over a drug dealer and confiscates the drugs, and then later sells them to make a profit for himself, he betrays his position as a enforcer of law and protector of public safety, and is no longer worthy of being a police officer, correct?

But do we NOT go to a hospital just because of one doctor?

But do we NOT call police if we see a child hit by a hit and run driver, just because of one police officer?

There is a core truth to Christianity, just as there is core truth to medical treatment, and to law enforcement. Throwing away the essence of any of these is akin to throwing away the baby along with the bath water.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#170728 Jul 3, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>So, God created evil. And therefore is responsible for all of it.
Good to know you acknowledge this.
So what's his beef with us again?
Im glad you now believe in GOD! and acknowledge GOD is creator of all.. his beef is sin! he sent Jesus Christ to pay with his life for our sins.. he rose from the grave...

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#170729 Jul 3, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>Im glad you now believe in GOD! and acknowledge GOD is creator of all.. his beef is sin! he sent Jesus Christ to pay with his life for our sins.. he rose from the grave...
No, Clownie.

Since you are incapable of arguing matters scientific, I must argue with you on your own terms.

Fine by me - I'm still whuppin' your ass.

Amnd at the very lest, you must admit that I know more of the Bible than you do of science.

Oh, and "I BELIEVE!" is not a valid argument. I know people who believe in astrology.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#170730 Jul 3, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>Im glad you now believe in GOD! and acknowledge GOD is creator of all.. his beef is sin! he sent Jesus Christ to pay with his life for our sins.. he rose from the grave...
Oh, and I forgot to append this:

"I'm pissed at you all.
Here, take my only-begotten son and kill him, that I may forgive you all."

Have you even THOUGHT about this??

Never mind. Silly question - of course you haven't.

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#170731 Jul 3, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> But it is one without the other.
No it isn't. The field produced around the permanent magnet is being produced by the stress on the atoms within it. You get a loopback or feedback effect once you got it started. There is an EM induction happening on the molecular scale. This is why you get flux lines, and not a monolithic magnetic field.

Magnetic fields and electrical currents exist only relative to the clumps of matter they emanate from. They can include others in other clumps of matter and combine creating an even more complex flow because of that EM induction and feedback.

Hang a paperclip on a string and move your finger close to it and see what happens. Then take some disc magnets or a speaker magnet and put in in your other hand behind your back and try it again.

Then try the hanging rock thing.:-)

Thinking

York, UK

#170732 Jul 3, 2013
Is asking someone to take a homeopathic overdose still hate speech?
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>No, Clownie.
Since you are incapable of arguing matters scientific, I must argue with you on your own terms.
Fine by me - I'm still whuppin' your ass.
Amnd at the very lest, you must admit that I know more of the Bible than you do of science.
Oh, and "I BELIEVE!" is not a valid argument. I know people who believe in astrology.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#170733 Jul 3, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Is asking someone to take a homeopathic overdose still hate speech?
<quoted text>
Hmm, I don't think so - is it even possible to OD on distilled water?

“The Edge”

Since: Dec 10

Of Tomorow

#170734 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
No it isn't. The field produced around the permanent magnet is being produced by the stress on the atoms within it. You get a loopback or feedback effect once you got it started. There is an EM induction happening on the molecular scale. This is why you get flux lines, and not a monolithic magnetic field.
Magnetic fields and electrical currents exist only relative to the clumps of matter they emanate from. They can include others in other clumps of matter and combine creating an even more complex flow because of that EM induction and feedback.
Hang a paperclip on a string and move your finger close to it and see what happens. Then take some disc magnets or a speaker magnet and put in in your other hand behind your back and try it again.
Then try the hanging rock thing.:-)
Goofy Dave, you can just put a clothespin on your nose and wear a tinfoil hat, then show me the electric current in a permanent magnet.

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Södertälje, Sweden

#170735 Jul 3, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>you're dumb
You are a bozo

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170736 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
Using the diameter of a proton as the base, can you give us the ratio of the distance between it and the electron cloud surrounding it in a single hydrogen atom?
First, the diameter of a proton is not well defined. ALL quantum level distances are probabilistic. So, we can talk about the *average* radius of the probability distribution for the proton. That is approximately 1-2 fm.

The electron cloud for the lowest energy level, the s orbital, is distributed in such a way that there is a non-zero probability of finding the electron at the center (i.e, at the proton). Once again, though, we can use the *average* value for the radius for that distribution, which is 59 pm. This is produced by a balancing of the electric force of attraction between the electron and the proton and the quantum effects that tend to spread out the electron distribution. The ratio of the two distances is about 40,000. The gravitational effect here is minimal, only affecting the 40th decimal point of the ratio (and we clearly do not have the accuracy to determine that). It should be pointed out that the electron in this lowest orbital has zero angular momentum.

This can all be found, if necessary, by solving the Schrodinger equation for the hydrogen atom. The results agree with observations.

This is also incorporating the force of gravity between the two. Now, let's add another hydrogen atom. We will now have the EM repulsion between the electron clouds, and the additional gravity. Can you figure the distances and geometry of these particles and give them to us as ratios, sort of like how AU's are given. How will the balance of forces shape these items?
Once again, gravity only affects the 40th decimal place or so, so it can be ignored at this level of accuracy. There will be a sigma bonding orbital filled by the two electrons, along with a vibrational state along the axis of the molecule. So the distance between the protons varies over time because of bond vibration. The average distance between the protons is about 84 pm.

This is a result of balancing between the attraction of the protons and electrons and the repulsion between the two protons and also between the two electrons. There is again a strong quantum effect spreading the orbitals out and, in particular, producing both the bonding and anti-bonding orbitals.

And this is relevant why?

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#170737 Jul 3, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Oh, and I forgot to append this:
"I'm pissed at you all.
Here, take my only-begotten son and kill him, that I may forgive you all."
Have you even THOUGHT about this??
Never mind. Silly question - of course you haven't.
The message was the Creator manifested a part of itself as a human informing you that there was life after death if you believed in what he said. The Creator created you, he can create another life for you in another form perhaps. This manifestation felt the physical life and pain that the Creator of this physical life couldn't feel. The Creator learned something from the experience, too. The Holy Spirit was the link that allowed this.

You didn't have to buy the stairway to heaven, you just had to believe. JC cut out the middleman. The middlemen cut him out.

JC gave you individuality. You have your own link to the Creator. You didn't have to be a part of the herd again.

It's called looking beyond the immediate.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170738 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are the math whiz. I asked you to do that.
Gravity has to have something to do with it. Don't you base your entire physics and cosmology on it? I thought gravity helped keep the electron bound. Perhaps you can enlighten us on how things "really" work.
Gravity is additive.
No, gravity has very little to do with keeping the electron bound. The strength of the gravitational force here is so small it is undetectable by any of our measurements. It is much, much, much smaller than the electric force in this case (which is the primary force for keeping electrons bound).

Yes, gravity helps keep *galaxies* bound, but that is because galaxies are very close to being electrically neutral and the E&M effects on their motion is small.

Once again, you ignore the details. For atoms, gravity is so small as to be irrelevant while for galaxies, E&M is mostly irrelevant (although more so than gravity is for atoms).

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170739 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you have one without the other?
Yes, of course. An unchanging electric field does not make a magnetic field. A slowly changing electric field will make a magnetic field so small that it doesn't significantly affect the results.

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#170740 Jul 3, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Goofy Dave, you can just put a clothespin on your nose and wear a tinfoil hat, then show me the electric current in a permanent magnet.
Auralie, how many atoms does it take to create an electric current? Realize an electric current is just passing a charge, and the passing of that charge induces a magnetic field. A simple displacement thingy.

This is basic physics without the sophistry.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170741 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
A material that has its atomic structure locked into place AFTER being magnetized by an electric current producing a magnetic field. The field passing through the material creates the electrical charge to set this up.
Again, you miss the details. It isn't an *electric* charge that is getting set up. The magnetic field aligns the spins of the atoms (if the material is paramagnetic or ferromagnetic) and the alignment of the spins produces the permanent magnetic fields. There is no new charge.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#170742 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
The message was the Creator manifested a part of itself as a human informing you that there was life after death if you believed in what he said. The Creator created you, he can create another life for you in another form perhaps. This manifestation felt the physical life and pain that the Creator of this physical life couldn't feel. The Creator learned something from the experience, too. The Holy Spirit was the link that allowed this.
You didn't have to buy the stairway to heaven, you just had to believe. JC cut out the middleman. The middlemen cut him out.
JC gave you individuality. You have your own link to the Creator. You didn't have to be a part of the herd again.
It's called looking beyond the immediate.
Amphigory.

Look it up.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170743 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
No it isn't. The field produced around the permanent magnet is being produced by the stress on the atoms within it.
No stress. Just aligned spins.
You get a loopback or feedback effect once you got it started. There is an EM induction happening on the molecular scale. This is why you get flux lines, and not a monolithic magnetic field.
No, that is NOT what happens. An alignment of magnets (and the spin makes a small magnet out of the atom) is not an inductive effect. Get your details right.
Magnetic fields and electrical currents exist only relative to the clumps of matter they emanate from.
Simply wrong. Light, for example, is an oscillating electromagnetic field and exists independently of the matter it emanates from.
They can include others in other clumps of matter and combine creating an even more complex flow because of that EM induction and feedback.
You use the words, but clearly don't understand what they mean. Induction is a very specific effect and is NOT what is going on here.
Hang a paperclip on a string and move your finger close to it and see what happens. Then take some disc magnets or a speaker magnet and put in in your other hand behind your back and try it again.
Then try the hanging rock thing.:-)
I just did your experiment. Nothing different. The disc magnets were too far from the paperclip. So?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170744 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Auralie, how many atoms does it take to create an electric current? Realize an electric current is just passing a charge, and the passing of that charge induces a magnetic field. A simple displacement thingy.
This is basic physics without the sophistry.
OK, if the atom is electrically neutral (uncharged), what is the current? What is the induced magnetic field?

Suppose we have a single atom passing by at 100km/sec. What is the induced magnetic field 1 meter away? What effect would this have on a refrigerator magnet?

You are thinking about effects that happen in the 20th decimal place and ignoring things that happen in the 2nd.

Details, details, details.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#170745 Jul 3, 2013
Favorite Adversary wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll answer your question, but I also would like to ask you one as well.
I do not think that you will always reject Jesus. I think you reject others' views of who Jesus was and is, and what He taught if it collides with your own views. For those who reject Jesus even up to bodily death, there is exclusion from the presence of God. You don't get to spend eternity in a state of continuous and infinite love and light. You will live, but in darkness and regret.
Now here is my question to you:
What do you think you would have to give up to accept Jesus as Lord in your life? What do you believe (at this point in your life) it would cost you if my answer to your question is correct?
Well I thank you for not condemning me to eternal torture in lakes of liquid fire. But there is still a dire consequence to my rejection of Jesus, or so you think. The point being, I could be a serial child molester having tortured and murdered innocent children, but apparently all I need do to gain access into heaven is repent my sins. I, on the other hand, could be a loving husband and father, give to numerous charities, be a model citizen, but because I reject Jesus, the serial murderer ends up getting a much better deal. Does this seem at all fair to you?

I can't imagine a situation were I would suddenly accept Jesus, I've lived most of my life convinced he existence was mythical. I will accept the fact that a preacher bearing his name roamed the countryside at that period of time, but the rest of the story including the miracles and crucifixion, are fictional.

In order for me to accept Jesus, and all the comes with that belief, I would have to give up what is most precious to me, my reason and logic. Your answer may well be correct, but I have prided myself on never accepting anything without evidence.

And thank you once again for a civil discourse, rather than the bozo the clown/goober hull comments.

“The Edge”

Since: Dec 10

Of Tomorow

#170746 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Auralie, how many atoms does it take to create an electric current? Realize an electric current is just passing a charge, and the passing of that charge induces a magnetic field. A simple displacement thingy.
This is basic physics without the sophistry.
Magnets from spin alignment is one thing but.....
NIST got their atoms to do a square dance.

http://www.nist.gov/pml/div684/quantum_gate.c...



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