Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#170585 Jul 1, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>

Fear as you are falling apart. Higher thought functions are the first to go.
And you are a perfect example.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#170586 Jul 1, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
So are you saying that the "organic system" humans operate by, is subject to error, feedback and misfirings?
If so, that explains your NDE quite nicely, the last gasps of a dying brain...erm...circuit board brain covered in salt water.
Or whatever it is you want to "think" of it as.
You will have your own experience. Perhaps not a drill before, though.

Nice to see you don't need one. You know so much about it.
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

#170587 Jul 1, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Your physical music hasn't got a clue you even existed, no matter how ordered and complicated it is.
Again, you will not understand that.
And what you FAIL to understand is that my Physical music would never exist without me. Without my thoughts carried through to the final conclusion, there is no music. My physical music is very well aware of its creator.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#170588 Jul 1, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>And what you FAIL to understand is that my Physical music would never exist without me. Without my thoughts carried through to the final conclusion, there is no music. My physical music is very well aware of its creator.
Totally and unequivocally wrong. The closest it can get is bouncing off your head, and it still wouldn't know you.

Music is just pressure waves, just like you are.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#170589 Jul 1, 2013
Thinking wrote:
So you admit you f*ck corpses. Watch out Jesus, DK Clunt is going to spunk in your spear hole!
<quoted text>
So you admit you are a sissy boy? sure you do

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#170590 Jul 1, 2013
Thinking about blowing wrote:
So you admit you f*ck corpses. Watch out jesus, DK Clunt is going to spunk in your spear hole!
<quoted text>
why do you hang out in the mens room on your knees begging for men to pull them big ol rabbit ears while you gargle their balls?

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#170591 Jul 1, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Yours doesn't count since it doesn't involve jesus.
LMFAO!

No, just physical sensations, misfiring neurons, random associations....not one single jeebus in there!

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#170592 Jul 1, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
I won't post my whole experience again. I was hit by truck. My consciousness got separated from my body and didn't even think to return to it after having a sudden revelation I just died. A great sense of loss of place in this production. Then a waking up on another plane, which I can't remember the details of, and then a processing that occurred and my temporary return in prep to step into another existence I was watching through the window. Fully cogent and aware, though not thinking like I do with this physical brain. Just a very basic consciousness without much clutter. I was then alerted I was still a viable physical construct and dove back into my body. The sound of my ragged first breath in a while was the first thing I heard.
No bright lights, no Jesus, no one waiting for me. I was an atheist for 3 decades by that time. But I did come back with an unexplainable sympathy for any supreme being that would have to be omniscient and eternal. You can't exist that way. You need something to occupy your time. Surprises even. I did get a taste of eternity during that waking up I mentioned. A very profound experience.
If you read my posts you will see I approach this existence from a technological basis. I can see past the physical. I've been detached from it, so I can approach it differently from someone who never left the cage they were caught in. All I will tell you is don't assume you will go to sleep forever when this body stops functioning. As it is, sleep as you know it is strictly a physical process of a living creature. It isn't physical death.
I appreciate your honesty.

Having come through an NDE or whatever you wish to call it, I realized that death isn't the frightening thing I would have once thought it was. There is some comfort in that since we all have to face it sooner or later anyway.

If you feel there is something beyond, so be it. I do not.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#170593 Jul 1, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
He was in a car wreck and banged his head, and while knocked loopy he saw green spiderwebs of Jesus.
Does that count?
<quoted text>
To many it counts. I can live with that. I thought I was in places I wasn't, I thought I did things that I didn't and I had "sure" feelings that have no basis and since they were not followed to a conclusion, who the heck knows?

The hallucinations seemed real enough (at the time) but the only thing I can say with absolute conviction is that I was hallucinating and it was NOT real;0)

Green spiderwebs of jesus??? You are a poet my dear.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#170594 Jul 1, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no 'flow of energy' in that sense in life. Death *is* the return to equilibrium.
<quoted text>
Which decays with death.
<quoted text>
Sorry, but this is just twaddle.
<quoted text>
There is no 'charge it created'. That is part of your delusion. You like to use scientific words like 'charge' and 'potential', and 'energy', but seem not to understand what any of those actually are.
So, we have two people here in the forum that have had NDEs. Both NDEs were similar. But they derived very different interpretations of them. Which should we take as substantiated? At the very least, we know that a brain put under stress will hallucinate and then fill in missing time. Since that accords nicely with both experiences and is the interpretation given to one of them, isn't it likely that *you* interpret yours incorrectly?
The number of NDEs has grown with medical advancement. Doctors can now revive us from many various close calls. Ironically, people will NOT accept the natural phenomena explained by the very same medical advancements and prefer to go to the otherworldly, the mystical something as the "answer."

Sheesh.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#170595 Jul 1, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>

You will be terrified if you believe your consciousness is strictly a physical phenomenon.
Not necessarily. Your personal experience is yours alone.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#170596 Jul 1, 2013
Favorite Adversary wrote:
<quoted text>
Dr. Jeffrey Long has designed a systematic method of identifying and excluding false or misleading accounts to keep the data accurate. Only NDEs analyzed as genuine are published in his studies. Wisely, he hasn't disclosed his control methods. If somebody knew what criteria he is using to exclude false or misleading information, they could circumvent this to make their claim seem legitimate. Dr. Long has eliminated this as much as possible. This leaves us with very well documented claims of NDEs that require explanations and not speculations. Your claim in another post that the brain can retain consciousness for up to 10 minutes following decapitation is patently false. The best estimates as of today's modern medicine allow for no more than 15-30 seconds.
Pamela Reynolds was brain dead for 1 hour during her surgery, and had no sensations that could be explained from a neurological surgeon's perspective and subsequent medical review.
So, something beyond our own human understanding and state of existence does indeed happen.
Those that don't disclose their methods so that they can stand up to the test of replication aren't accepted in the scientific community.

No, modern medicine does NOT claim that the brain only lives 15-30 seconds. Come on and show us which hat you pulled that one out of.

Pamela Reynolds had hallucinations. Period.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#170597 Jul 1, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Your "few minutes" is how long it takes before parts begin to die, it's not a sudden process, you should stop projecting your idiocy onto others. The actual average is 3-6 minutes, before brain damage begins. Some people as long as 15 minutes:
http://www.wisegeek.org/how-long-can-the-brai...
A few years ago, this happened:
http://www.wwltv.com/news/Man-survived-withou...
That's 25 minutes without oxygen. You should at least Google before making yourself look like an idiot.
He can't help it, it's in his genes;0)

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#170598 Jul 2, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>you haven't disprove GOD! I believe in GOD and creation
It's the other way bozo you have to prove to us that your god exists and that voice in your head isn't your god
Bongo

Coram, NY

#170599 Jul 2, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
He can't help it, it's in his genes;0)
oh yeah albatross

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

#170600 Jul 2, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
Bro. Clownie feels totally sad for those lost and lonely, wandering in the wilderness, heathen, atheists! Those poor souls are drowning in their own intellectual bull$#!+, and are bound to wander in circles not knowing where to go, or, what to do. No direction ... no purpose in life, other than hating believers of God ... nothing to look forward to after their pathetic life on planet Earth expires. Pity! So sad
Except your old buddh Double Fine, right?
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

#170602 Jul 2, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Totally and unequivocally wrong. The closest it can get is bouncing off your head, and it still wouldn't know you.
Music is just pressure waves, just like you are.
The music IS ME, I certainly know myself, they are my ideas generated within me. Sound waves are not a conscious entity, the mind that creates them is.

Your penchant for making idiots statements never ceases. "The music doesn't KNOW you." You really do try way to hard to appear intelligent, in doing so, you actually appear to be a bit off center.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170603 Jul 2, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
Those that don't disclose their methods so that they can stand up to the test of replication aren't accepted in the scientific community.
No, modern medicine does NOT claim that the brain only lives 15-30 seconds. Come on and show us which hat you pulled that one out of.
Pamela Reynolds had hallucinations. Period.
People have been revived after being submersed in cold water for up to half an hour. There is a natural reflex that slows the metabolism in such cases. In the Reynolds case, she was cooled for exactly this reason. That is what allowed her to survive the whole procedure. The claim that she was 'brain dead' for an hour is also incorrect. The aneurysm was removed immediately after her brain was drained and then warm blood was supplied. There were difficulties re-starting her heart, but the brain was supplied with blood after a few minutes. This is well within the range allowed by body cooling.

The other thing is a well-established psychological reaction: the brain will 'make up' a story to fill in missing information. This, together with the overall stress to the brain, explains the hallucinations. And yes, such hallucinations will be more and more common as doctors learn how to revive people closer and closer to death. There is even some data that suggests the *type* of medical issue that brings one close to death has a bearing on the type of NDE (positive, negative, some of the experiential details) one has. Also, much of the imagery is culturally determined.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#170604 Jul 2, 2013
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Except your old buddy Double Fine, right?
You are my ol pal Double, no doubt!

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#170605 Jul 2, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
People have been revived after being submersed in cold water for up to half an hour. There is a natural reflex that slows the metabolism in such cases. In the Reynolds case, she was cooled for exactly this reason. That is what allowed her to survive the whole procedure. The claim that she was 'brain dead' for an hour is also incorrect. The aneurysm was removed immediately after her brain was drained and then warm blood was supplied. There were difficulties re-starting her heart, but the brain was supplied with blood after a few minutes. This is well within the range allowed by body cooling.
The other thing is a well-established psychological reaction: the brain will 'make up' a story to fill in missing information. This, together with the overall stress to the brain, explains the hallucinations. And yes, such hallucinations will be more and more common as doctors learn how to revive people closer and closer to death. There is even some data that suggests the *type* of medical issue that brings one close to death has a bearing on the type of NDE (positive, negative, some of the experiential details) one has. Also, much of the imagery is culturally determined.
If the brain can make up stories like that, and the feelings are as real or more real than any other experience, why do you think your conscious rationality is less illusional? Your body is under severe stress at those times. In danger. Survival mode. Your mind should be at its peak, not daydreaming.

No one has responded as to how evolution could produce such a process.

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