you know, i agree with you on many points. you are right, christians have no excuse for some of the arguments they give. i often find my hand firmly pressed to my face in frustration towhat i read some christians post at times. i think its something that christians have to understand. you cant argue the bible from the inside to someone on the outside of that world view, or itll just be like you saying im right ur wrong with no argument for the truth of it..<quoted text> First of all, I wish to assert the right of a commenter to agree with one part of someone's comment, and to disagree with another part. I will do that first with you and then with the person you are in an argument with.
I agree that facts are not clear cut, in many cases. In many cases they are not known at all.
I do not think that absence of evidence is evidence of absence, on the God issue or many other things. But it is not an excuse for weak assertions to be claimed as "evidence", for either side.
The notion that something is true or not, may be correct by definition, but it sure does not imply that we know or can know what is true about everything that interests us.
You may have your opinion, but I do not see your alleged evidence as being real evidence. I also do not think that the atheists who claim to "know" there is no God have evidence that there is none, or that they know it. There are two issues involved, one is whether there is or is not something that can reasonably be called a God (and the definition is not clear or universally accepted), and the second issue is about the nature and extent of human knowledge.
I am an agnostic (not making a knowledge claim), and also an atheist (not a believer in a God). I doubt whether anyone knows or can know whether something that can reasonably be called a god exists. I depends on the definition, and on what thinks is a reasonable definition.
I personally feel strongly that an allgoodallpowerful God does not and could not exist, given the world we observe and feel, with pain in it.
I also think that there is a reasonable definition of a God that exists - which is that God is a name for everything that exists.
But I certainly do not think that the Christian God as described is allgood and allpowerful, nor do I think it is everything that exists. I do not believe in it because I think that the Biblical God is not a nice guy, and unworthy of worship, even more than I consider it to be unlikely to exist, as a matter of reason.
on another point i agree with, i do agree that the pain we feel is a strong reason for doubting the existance of God. and it doesnt help that often times we cant see the answers to why the pain we see and feel happen. we want the world to be right, and we think that if God exists, he should stop or fix the pain. but ive sat down and thought very hard on many things in this area, and ive seen that very often its where the greatest pain exists that belief in God flurishes. and its not because they are weak by any means. i doubt anyone could look at those who suffer anywhere in the world and say they are weak for believing in God with the kind of strength that ive seen personally. when we look at the things that happen, we see pain, but we also see healing after the storm so to speak. and i think those that suffer and believe in God also have doubts, just as i have had, but many have also described their lives as being stronger with God. i could not see this as merely a function of weakness or crutch bearing. sometimes pain is just the thing people need to step back and ask where God is. many find him, and some dont.