Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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158,121 - 158,140 of 226,246 Comments Last updated 7 min ago

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#164629 Apr 29, 2013
Dig any ditches today or were you unloading trucks?

If you are unable to formulate that he is a being in your book of holy myths then it is obvious you have never read the bible.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>"hence he is an entity"

What kind of entity is God?

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#164630 Apr 29, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>*sigh*
The most annoying thing about debating fundies, is that they don't know the first effin' thing about their bible.
Or about science.
Or about debate.
Yet we continue to try to get them to show some intelligence. Perhaps we are the ones who are being foolish; they can't help it.:)

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#164631 Apr 29, 2013
These Christholes are allergic to reality.
Thinking wrote:
<quoted text>Did we really just get down iconed for discussing imaginary numbers?

F**k me those fundies are dumb!

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#164632 Apr 29, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Did we really just get down iconed for discussing imaginary numbers?
F**k me those fundies are dumb!
<quoted text>
I don't even see those any more.

But yes, they are.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#164633 Apr 29, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet we continue to try to get them to show some intelligence. Perhaps we are the ones who are being foolish; they can't help it.:)
I know. It's like bangin' yer head against a brick wall - not much fun while yer doin' it, but it's lovely when you leave off.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#164634 Apr 29, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>I know. It's like bangin' yer head against a brick wall - not much fun while yer doin' it, but it's lovely when you leave off.
Reminds me of a dream I had just before waking yesterday at around 7 am. I dreamed that a person was sitting on some snow on top of a vehicle when the snow collapsed and he fell backwards to the ground scraping his head on the concrete wall of the house. When I checked him his head had the whole back of it removed by the concrete and he was dead. In the process of resolving that situation the head also was detached from the body. I then woke up facing the window, and there was just enough light coming in that the first thing I saw on a dresser under the window was what looked like a severed head, but turned out to be a wig on a stand. It took me only a second to realize what had happened, but it was initially quite a shock.:)

I suppose some would say that God did it.:)

I think that is the first time that I can recall a dream actually having an immediate coincidence like that after awaking.
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#164635 Apr 29, 2013
Where is Dave Nelson?

“THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD;”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#164636 Apr 29, 2013
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>
Isaac Asimov wrote, "Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived." Many of the regular posters on this forum have seen the truth of this firsthand and were, in fact, firm believers until, out of devotion, the made the mistake of reading the Bible in its entirety. I had to read it three times before I finally accepted that any religion based on this book was essentially insane, such was the pressure from family, friends, and mentors to believe as they did.
Im assuming the supposed contradiction lead you that way?

Well if one reads a ''book'' that says they are a God, then one could read a ''book'' that says they aint a God. All depends on what you are looking for. Me personaly wasnt looking in or reading a book to find God, he found me and i answerd his calling.
For some time, I figured that, while the Bible was false, God was real. I meditated with my Quaker friends and eventually found a spiritual home in the Baha'i Faith, which is based on books of astounding beauty and a wonderfully consistent ethos. But after a while, I saw gaping holes in that as well. I sought, sought long and hard with more vigor than most believers could muster, to no avail.
Now I am content to live as a useful member of the most intelligent species on earth, but still as a member of the animal kingdom. I need nothing more.
But I understand why others do, which is why I am a quiet atheist. As I am content where I am, so are others in very different places. Let them stay there as long as they do no harm.
As long as they do no harm.
So is God still real to you?

Thanks for sharing, and i as you say.

My Faith has also found its resting spot as well, content and unmoveable..

“THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD;”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#164637 Apr 29, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
The geological time scale is something that was deduced from the evidence. In particular, that many processes take millions of years was well-established before Darwin wrote any of his books. It is also supported by radiometric dating (NOT carbon dating---carbon dating only works for things less than about 100,000 years old--very young for geological processes).
The geological time scale informs us of how long various stages of evolution took, but it is not dependent on the evidence of evolution, nor is the evidence for evolution directly dependent on the geological time scale. The two *do* inform each other, though.
I should also point out that the geological time scale, which involves actual dates and times is different than the geologic column, which tells the *order* of events, but does not give the timing of those events. So, we can look at various human ancestors and know the order of their appearance even in the cases where we do not have good dates for the different species. The geologic column was well-established long before the dates of the events in that column were figured out.
So more or less they use fossils to date rocks, and rocks to date fossils?

And if they date the rocks by the fossils, how can they then turn around and talk about the patterns of evolutionary change through time in the fossil record?

I was reading an artical on this, and that was a question it asked.

Just curious to hear someones input on it.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#164638 Apr 29, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Dig any ditches today or were you unloading trucks?
If you are unable to formulate that he is a being in your book of holy myths then it is obvious you have never read the bible.
<quoted text>
That's a cheap way of saying you can't answer the question.

I accept your defeat.

Hand over your welfare check.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#164639 Apr 29, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>*sigh*
The most annoying thing about debating fundies, is that they don't know the first effin' thing about their bible.
Or about science.
Or about debate.
More fundamental atheist baseless claims?

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#164640 Apr 29, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
They won't be "illegals" much longer.
The one thing that will be enacted this Congressional session (and maybe the only thing, in the dysfunctional state of our federal government) is an immigration reform bill.
And it will be a bipartisan bill.
Comprendes o no, pendejo?
Ya, that'd be great.

Make 'em wait ten years to get a green card, give them no welfare, food stamps or Obamacare....

Oh, and charge them a fine upon signing up.

I'm surprised you're into that, Catch.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#164641 Apr 29, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
These Christholes are allergic to reality.
<quoted text>
You haven't posed anything to suggest that "there is no god" is reality.

If you could, you would.

But you can't, so you won't.

FAIL

“THE LORD IS MY SHEPHERD;”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#164642 Apr 29, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
You give yourself too much credit, based on this post alone, it's plain to see you have zero education in any scientific field at all. Sad that you wasted your life.
One could say the same about you, yet all of your knowledge will end at the grave, and what has it proffited you?

Well, at least i am honest and dont claim to be something im not! Who do you work for NASA?

Honesty is a good thing, you should try it sometime..

And you think just because some one has no education in science you deem them as to have wasted their life.

You are so narrow minded that if a mosquito landed on your nose and done a mule kick, it would put out both eyes..

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#164643 Apr 29, 2013
psalms 23 wrote:
<quoted text>
So more or less they use fossils to date rocks, and rocks to date fossils?
And if they date the rocks by the fossils, how can they then turn around and talk about the patterns of evolutionary change through time in the fossil record?
I was reading an artical on this, and that was a question it asked.
Just curious to hear someones input on it.
They established a baseline of ages in certain layers that appear identical in numerous places around the world, they established the age of these layers by radiometric dating things embedded in it.

So the baselines are known values of age from knowing what layer it is in. This is where correlation between the geologic time scale and the rock strata comes into play. There are identifying layers that have a known ages and have distinct chemical trace properties to identify them. So when something is found just above or below that marker its age is approximately known from it's position in relation to it.
Thinking

London, UK

#164644 Apr 29, 2013
Why?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
More fundamental atheist baseless claims?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#164645 Apr 29, 2013
psalms 23 wrote:
<quoted text>
So more or less they use fossils to date rocks, and rocks to date fossils?
And if they date the rocks by the fossils, how can they then turn around and talk about the patterns of evolutionary change through time in the fossil record?
I was reading an artical on this, and that was a question it asked.
Just curious to hear someones input on it.
Let's start at the beginning. We see a bunch of layers of rock (strata). In those layers, we see fossils. We are able to trace a given layer over very long distances. We also have the general principle that older layers are below newer ones (more on caveats to this later). This gives us the *relative* ages of the different layers: in other words, it tells us which are older and which are younger.

Now, through observation and experience, we find out that certain fossils only appear in certain layers. Different layers will have characteristic fossils that are different, but for certain fossils, we can say that they only appear in particular layers.

Now, the caveat: there are geological forces at work: mountain building, erosion, etc. Occasionally, layers can be so bent by mountain building that the order is reversed. This is usually pretty obvious because we can actually see the regions where the bending happens (more on this later).

Now what we have is layers with relative dates and fossils in them that are characteristic of those layers. Now, there are also other fossils that are NOT characteristic of particular layers: species that lasted much longer periods of time than those limited to specific layers.

Next, we learned how to get absolute dates for the layers via radiometric dates. The problem is that such dates are often limited to igneous layers (not sedimentary). So we can date certain igneous layers and use those the *relative* dates for those above and below to get ranges of dates for the sedimentary layers.

Now we have two scenarios: in one we find a new fossil in a particular layer and this layer has been found between two igneous layers with good dates. This layer helps us to date the fossil we are interested in.

In the other scenario, we finds a layer with one of the *characteristic* fossils. because those only happen during limited time periods, this gives a date for that layer. In turn the date for that layer will give dates for all the *other* fossils in that layer.

The patterns of evolutionary change were obvious just from the sequence of the rocks and the changes in the types of fossils in each layer. The specific dates for a particular fossil tend to be found by dating that layer. Since layers with fossils are generally sedimentary layers, this usually involves either finding igneous strata above and below that can be dated, OR relying on *previously found dates* and finding a characteristic fossil for that layer.

There *is* a give and take: the layers are surveyed, the different fossils for a layer are determined, the fossils that only appear in a particular layer are found. Then we get radioactive dates for the igneous layers, which gives us dates for the sedimentary ones between. Finally, new and interesting fossils are dated by determining the age of the layer in which they are found. This can happen by using the characteristic fossils because those particular ones are limited to only specific time periods.

What does NOT happen is that we determine the age of a layer from a fossil and the age of *the same fossil* from the layer.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#164646 Apr 29, 2013
Anon wrote:
Where is Dave Nelson?
I have been wondering where Dave Nelson may have gone.

He and Eagle12 disappeared.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#164647 Apr 29, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Ya, that'd be great.
Make 'em wait ten years to get a green card, give them no welfare, food stamps or Obamacare....
Oh, and charge them a fine upon signing up.
I'm surprised you're into that, Catch.
The details will have to be worked out.

But I'm glad you're with the program.

You weren't a while back, were you?
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#164648 Apr 29, 2013
psalms 23 wrote:
<quoted text>
One could say the same about you, yet all of your knowledge will end at the grave, and what has it proffited you?
Well, at least i am honest and dont claim to be something im not! Who do you work for NASA?
Honesty is a good thing, you should try it sometime..
And you think just because some one has no education in science you deem them as to have wasted their life.
You are so narrow minded that if a mosquito landed on your nose and done a mule kick, it would put out both eyes..
Yes, having no education in the sciences is in fact a wasted life. Education is how intelligent people move forward, its how we learn about the world around us, it's what got our species out of the cave and on to the moon. NOT having a basic education in the sciences means you are willfully ignorant. Being such should be shameful for you, I'm not sure why it isn't.

You claim to be uneducated in the sciences yet you accuse someone else of having a narrow mind. This makes you seem not only uneducated but incredibly stupid. Try reading a book, start with a book on science, anyone will do for a start, Good luck!!!

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