Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 244816 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#161338 Mar 20, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
Ha ha ha the assault weapons ban is out, but arresting little boys with pop tart guns are in.
Freaking lunatic teachers!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/w...
Thank god he didn't have a banana , he could have done serious damage with that!
Think Zero Tolerance might extend to, say, a gun-shaped birthmark?

Just you wait.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#161339 Mar 20, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no way you can "observe" such travel accurately.
Even with the most carefully calibrated electronic detectors you have the issue of time lag within the devices, and you would need one really long straight vacuum tunnel, which would not curve around the earth because it is straight, in order to get a good handle on it.
Temperature, resistance, capacitance, induction, and the gravity field play real important parts in the measuring of such speed.
What year is this, Dave?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#161340 Mar 20, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, like all terrorists they were killing for their belief (and still do on a small scale), not the belief of the majority of the population concerned but their own personal minority belief.
They made there belief public by committing some of their atrocities such as indiscriminately killing children in the United Kingdom
And they named themselves the IRA of whatever flavour, the R meaning republican.
The fact that they were funded by cash and drugs supplied by US republicans and armed by terrorist republican and communist states using the money donated by US republicans and the suffering of addiction makes no difference to the fact that they were (are) called the Irish Republican Army.
In fact I suppose because they called themselves the IRA excuses drug running, child murder and indiscriminate terrorist acts in your eyes - right?
Any country or group that desires freedom from British rule has my support.

Period.
Thinking

Mirfield, UK

#161341 Mar 20, 2013
What sacrifices have you made to this end?
Not f**king your sister for a whole day?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Any country or group that desires freedom from British rule has my support.
Period.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#161343 Mar 20, 2013
Look up the south park white trash in trouble clip.
Thinking wrote:
<quoted text>What sacrifices have you made to this end?
Not f**king your sister for a whole day?

“Spelin 'n' tpyin...”

Since: Feb 08

...are my strong suits!

#161344 Mar 20, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no way you can "observe" such travel accurately.
Even with the most carefully calibrated electronic detectors you have the issue of time lag within the devices, and you would need one really long straight vacuum tunnel, which would not curve around the earth because it is straight, in order to get a good handle on it.
Temperature, resistance, capacitance, induction, and the gravity field play real important parts in the measuring of such speed.
I must disagree, Dave.

That OTDR is a carefully calibrated electronic detector (photonic, actually)... and time lag (the TD is for Time Domain) is part of what it measures.

It's used to certify, test, and troubleshoot optical fiber by measuring attenuation of laser light in the medium.

It works by injecting laser pulses at one end (the equipment end).

The pulses travel through the fiber. Every splice, every bend, every imperfection, every break... all the way to the far end (the terminated end)... causes a reflection.

“Bounce back” signals are received *back* at the equipment end.

The machine “knows” when the pulses were injected. It compares the time of injection to the time bounce backs are received.

The optical fiber could be 100 feet in length... it could be 100 miles in length... or longer.

The cables are manufactured with sequential distance markings printed on the sheathings... in feet (or sometimes meters).

If the operator is at one end of a strand with the OTDR, and the terminated end is 50 miles away... and there's a break or an unacceptable point of attenuation somewhere in between... the OTDR will tell him, to within a foot or two, how many feet distant the damage/defect is.

The operator reads the first distance marking on the cable at his end and drives to the location to affect repair (or sends a tech)... which may require removing the damaged section and splicing in some new cable... or simply straightening out a kink/bend.

The readings the OTDR provides give the operator a pretty good idea of what to expect, as different defects have distinct tale-tale characteristics.

You mentioned temperature... and it does have an effect on fiber's optical characteristics. Various manufacturers design their products to operate within set parameters. The OTDR takes that into consideration and can tell the operator what kind of fiber it's attached to... though, the operator usually inputs that info into the machine. It isn't designed to do so... but, with a little effort, a skilled operator could derive a temperature at some point along a cables length based on the effect it has on signal attenuation.

The machine translates light's travel time through the medium into a distance and provides a graphic display... similar to an oscilloscope trace... with distance plotted on the x-axis (horizontally) and attenuation plotted on the y-axis (vertically).

If light's speed wasn't constant, none of that would be possible.

There's another piece of equipment called a TDR (no “O”) that performs an identical procedure on copper... or aluminum... or steel. Rather than measure attenuation of light, it measures attenuation of electrical current (electron flow). Electrons have characteristics that are well understood and the properties of the mediums they travel through affect flow in a manner similar to what's described above.

I understand where you're coming from, Dave.

Do you understand where I'm coming from?

The fact that a piece of equipment can be designed to do that says that the designers know what they're doing.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#161345 Mar 20, 2013
Hukt on Fonix wrote:
<quoted text>
I must disagree, Dave.
That OTDR is a carefully calibrated electronic detector (photonic, actually)... and time lag (the TD is for Time Domain) is part of what it measures.
It's used to certify, test, and troubleshoot optical fiber by measuring attenuation of laser light in the medium.
It works by injecting laser pulses at one end (the equipment end).
The pulses travel through the fiber. Every splice, every bend, every imperfection, every break... all the way to the far end (the terminated end)... causes a reflection.
“Bounce back” signals are received *back* at the equipment end.
The machine “knows” when the pulses were injected. It compares the time of injection to the time bounce backs are received.
The optical fiber could be 100 feet in length... it could be 100 miles in length... or longer.
The cables are manufactured with sequential distance markings printed on the sheathings... in feet (or sometimes meters).
If the operator is at one end of a strand with the OTDR, and the terminated end is 50 miles away... and there's a break or an unacceptable point of attenuation somewhere in between... the OTDR will tell him, to within a foot or two, how many feet distant the damage/defect is.
The operator reads the first distance marking on the cable at his end and drives to the location to affect repair (or sends a tech)... which may require removing the damaged section and splicing in some new cable... or simply straightening out a kink/bend.
The readings the OTDR provides give the operator a pretty good idea of what to expect, as different defects have distinct tale-tale characteristics.
You mentioned temperature... and it does have an effect on fiber's optical characteristics. Various manufacturers design their products to operate within set parameters. The OTDR takes that into consideration and can tell the operator what kind of fiber it's attached to... though, the operator usually inputs that info into the machine. It isn't designed to do so... but, with a little effort, a skilled operator could derive a temperature at some point along a cables length based on the effect it has on signal attenuation.
The machine translates light's travel time through the medium into a distance and provides a graphic display... similar to an oscilloscope trace... with distance plotted on the x-axis (horizontally) and attenuation plotted on the y-axis (vertically).
If light's speed wasn't constant, none of that would be possible.
There's another piece of equipment called a TDR (no “O”) that performs an identical procedure on copper... or aluminum... or steel. Rather than measure attenuation of light, it measures attenuation of electrical current (electron flow). Electrons have characteristics that are well understood and the properties of the mediums they travel through affect flow in a manner similar to what's described above.
I understand where you're coming from, Dave.
Do you understand where I'm coming from?
The fact that a piece of equipment can be designed to do that says that the designers know what they're doing.
Fiber optics is not a vacuum. In fact, it is material designed for a specific purpose, and is calibrated and timed to measure according to that design. It will be constant because of that.

What speed does the light travel in that controlled circumstances?

As you noted, there are temperature and other effects on even that controlled circuitry, which is powered to a level high enough to overcome most of the environment. Trillions of miles of space has lots of interference.

I'm just saying they don't have enough info or sufficient testing to create an absolute speed of light, and then use that figure to measure the cosmos, then present that as absolutes.

We had testboard men in the old days that could pit you within feet of a bad copper splice with Wheatstone bridges, cable maps, and ambient air temp.
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#161346 Mar 20, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
We can talk windows.
Sliders? Double hung? Single hung? Awning? Casement? Picture? Low e? Lowe 2? Low e3? Single pane? Double pane? Triple pane? Laminated? Argon? Xenon? Neon? Krypton?
Pick your poison.
What kind of window does God come through when he comes to touch your head?
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#161347 Mar 20, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
http://www.ghosttheory.com/201 3/03/15/higgs-boson-psychokine sis?
http://noosphere.princeton.edu/
This would play hell with atheism. Would point to something larger than our individual selves.
Of course, you would then get atheist apologetics, saying this universal consciousness sprang from stellar shit.
Although you would just love to have these things to hang your hat on, neither of them are supported with any real evidence.....Oh Oh, there's that terribly scary word again. Even if there were supporting demonstrable evidence, it would still do nothing to prove your God thing exists. But do keep trying, I enjoy the show!!!
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#161348 Mar 20, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
No it isn't.
We're you beaten as a child?
You know, last year...
When you raise children with love and understanding, spanking become totally unnecessary. You obviously missed the classes on how to be a good parent, too bad, really!

“Spelin 'n' tpyin...”

Since: Feb 08

...are my strong suits!

#161349 Mar 20, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Fiber optics is not a vacuum. In fact, it is material designed for a specific purpose, and is calibrated and timed to measure according to that design. It will be constant because of that.
I didn't say fiber optics is a vacuum.

And, yes... it is designed. It does what it's designed to do.

That's the point.

Theory lead to application.

The application confirms the theory.

Reflectometry is nothing new.

RADAR is time domain dependent.

How long has RADAR been around?
What speed does the light travel in that controlled circumstances?[QUOTE]

Depends on the fiber. All fiber is not created equal.

[QUOTE]As you noted, there are temperature and other effects on even that controlled circuitry, which is powered to a level high enough to overcome most of the environment. Trillions of miles of space has lots of interference. I'm just saying they don't have enough info or sufficient testing to create an absolute speed of light, and then use that figure to measure the cosmos, then present that as absolutes.[QUOTE]

I wasn't talking about trillions of miles of space... or measuring the cosmos. Just one tiny part of it.

I was talking about a few miles of optical fiber.

[QUOTE]We had testboard men in the old days that could pit you within feet of a bad copper splice with Wheatstone bridges, cable maps, and ambient air temp.
Yeah!

Think of what they could do today.

It's getting done... everyday.

“Spelin 'n' tpyin...”

Since: Feb 08

...are my strong suits!

#161350 Mar 20, 2013
Freggin slashes!...
What speed does the light travel in that controlled circumstances?
Depends on the fiber. All fiber is not created equal.
As you noted, there are temperature and other effects on even that controlled circuitry, which is powered to a level high enough to overcome most of the environment. Trillions of miles of space has lots of interference. I'm just saying they don't have enough info or sufficient testing to create an absolute speed of light, and then use that figure to measure the cosmos, then present that as absolutes.
I wasn't talking about trillions of miles of space... or measuring the cosmos. Just one tiny part of it.

I was talking about a few miles of optical fiber.
We had testboard men in the old days that could pit you within feet of a bad copper splice with Wheatstone bridges, cable maps, and ambient air temp.
Yeah!

Think of what they could do today.

It's getting done... everyday.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#161351 Mar 20, 2013
Come to think of it.

Observing a light stream coming toward you, as those pinpoints of far distant galaxies, and even the sun itelf, you are looking into the source with a very long stream of photons, waves, or whatever, extending all the way back to that source. You won't see through it headon.

Any impediment to that stream, such as refraction, will back that stream up. The slowed down light gets bumped in the butt. Like train cars slowing down suddenly. Theoretically making it brighter, and larger. Just like what happens looking at stars with high humidity in the air.

What I mean is you look into the cross section, but all you see is the cross section, and that stream has been pulsed by rear end collisions all the way to you. Not just through our atmosphere.
bohart

Newport, TN

#161352 Mar 20, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>When you raise children with love and understanding, spanking become totally unnecessary. You obviously missed the classes on how to be a good parent, too bad, really!
Ohh! truthfully, how many kids do you have?

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#161353 Mar 20, 2013
Hukt on Fonix wrote:
Freggin slashes!...
<quoted text>
Depends on the fiber. All fiber is not created equal.
<quoted text>
I wasn't talking about trillions of miles of space... or measuring the cosmos. Just one tiny part of it.
I was talking about a few miles of optical fiber.
<quoted text>
Yeah!
Think of what they could do today.
It's getting done... everyday.
Hukt, there is a big difference between a few miles of optic cable and the edge of the universe. Too much to base modern cosmology on an assumed constant speed of light.

http://blog.advaoptical.com/speed-light-fiber...

http://www.ciscopress.com/articles/article.as...

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#161354 Mar 20, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Although you would just love to have these things to hang your hat on, neither of them are supported with any real evidence.....Oh Oh, there's that terribly scary word again. Even if there were supporting demonstrable evidence, it would still do nothing to prove your God thing exists. But do keep trying, I enjoy the show!!!
:-)

It's the same sort of statistics and probabilities some of our QM proponents use. Plus the virtual particles, and thus reality.



http://www.youtube.com/watch...
CunningLinguist

Hernando, FL

#161355 Mar 20, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>What kind of window does God come through when he comes to touch your head?
"It is a curious thing that every creed promises a paradise which will be absolutely uninhabitable for anyone of civilized taste".
~Evelyn Waugh

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#161356 Mar 20, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude....
That's was a lot of typing to say "I don't know".
LOL
Poly? When is light not moving?
When it is totally dark.

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#161357 Mar 20, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Stuck ones.
Cranking up Windows after a while when you really need it in a hurry, and you get stuck in endless updates in which you have to reboot.
Never happened to me. You have to know how to run the windows and not let then run you.

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#161358 Mar 20, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/20/ business/sothebys-china-bowl/i ndex.html?hpt=hp_c3
Check those deals you got at yard sales.
I love yard sales. Something so human about them.

We could tell you're a bag lady. lol

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