Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#158475 Mar 4, 2013
Indeed.

Btw just finished watching the Hitchcock movie, The Rope. It was filmed with only 10 cuts when they were forced to because of camera limitations. The camera seems to become you as an unseen actor. It happens in real time after a murder. If anyone hasn't seen it certainly give it a watch.

It's genius in it's subtle simplicity yet the suspense builds each moment. Hitchcock was truly ahead of his time.
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
Sarcasm with style!
Using the old saying, "What you don't know can't hurt you," he's practically invulnerable.
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#158476 Mar 4, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not what you offered as the "fact of evolution".
Now you offer a new "fact of evolution".
See how it works? You offer your "fact"; it gets shot down, so you think of another one.
Natural selection cannot be both a "component" of evolution and at the same time be "evolution".
If natural selection is evolution, they are the same thing.
They are not.
Natural selection only means some of a population fail to survive, and others with a particular trait survive.
That involves NO EVOLUTION. It involves a population, a hostile environment, death, and then a population in which more members have the aforementioned trait.
No "evolution" happened there, unless you define evolution so loosely that it looses any identity.
And that is exactly what you want to do.
Oh I get it now, you're a TROLL.....wow, I never would have guessed. But given this last post, and the FACT that no one could be this stupid, leaves the only conclusion possible, you're a friggin troll. You not only pretend to NOT know what evolution is, but you now pretend to NOT know what a component is. Add to that your inability to understand how natural selection factors into the process of evolution, and we are left with either the most scientifically uneducated human on the face of the planet, or........a run of the mill troll, pick one!!!
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#158477 Mar 4, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
That was not a rebuttal.
That was just more shit talking.
Care to try again?
Maybe answer a question or two?
In all fairness, I've answered tons of your questions...
No, this a plea for you to educate yourself on the facts of evolution so we can at least have something on the verge of an intelligent conversation. Right now it alike having a dialog with a hard boiled egg!!

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#158478 Mar 4, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>No, they're obviously more complex than YOU can understand. "It's too complex and I can't understand it so it must have been made by my invisible god thingy." he whines!!!! Science is just a little bit ahead of you here, they actually understand things that you remain credulous over.
Nothing "random" about it. They combine in a very complex and exacting fashion. Either that or a magical being scooped up some dirt and blew on it and out popped a fully formed male.....hummmm tough choice here, but since I refuse to believe in magic, I'll take complex chemicals mixing in just the right environment, especially since many of those elements are what make up all stars. A star exploded, and strews its essence into the universe, over and over again, and you think life began with a scoop of dirt....REALLY NOW!!!!! HUMMMM
You have a propensity to oversimplify things you wish were simple.

Tell me, since you are a temporary being, personality, experiencer of things, and future dust pile lost to history, just what does it add to your life experience "knowing" you are just a piece of stellar shit with no future, no past, no nothing but the right now? Anything you have done is already lost, they are just memories of yours that will expire when you do. Illusions.

Can you convey to us how that is better than our own illusions?
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#158479 Mar 4, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
You are the one who proposed "the fact" of evolution being hereditary change over generations.
You assigned conjugation as evolution!
Don't blame someone else, you moron.
No, I did NOT assign conjugation as evolution, Reddick did. I simply responded. Brush up on your comprehension skills, they are important!

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#158480 Mar 4, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Oh I get it now, you're a TROLL.....wow, I never would have guessed. But given this last post, and the FACT that no one could be this stupid, leaves the only conclusion possible, you're a friggin troll. You not only pretend to NOT know what evolution is, but you now pretend to NOT know what a component is. Add to that your inability to understand how natural selection factors into the process of evolution, and we are left with either the most scientifically uneducated human on the face of the planet, or........a run of the mill troll, pick one!!!
You aren't understanding the finer points of what evolution is.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#158481 Mar 4, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Your belief in science is well stated.
But when I read that a scientist like Theobald says "we're on the right track" makes me wonder his reasons. It makes me think of him as completely anti-God, and his "results" will undoubtedly confirm that.
I understand the concept of evolving, organisms changing, etc. But for any human to truly grasp the "billions of years" crap is hard to fathom. I see it a lot; Their best guess in 2013 is that the universe is 13.7 billion years old, give or take a few zeros.
Get real.
Fact is fact - unchanging.
Theory is theory - always changing.
You're kind of jumping to conclusions there - he didn't say he was an atheist or anti-god. I know lots of scientists who are also Christians. They just take a longer view than other Christians and tacitly assume God's plan involved abiogenesis and evolution. I suppose, if the universe is designed by your God (ha!- why not any of the others?), then the words should really be "apparent" abiogenesis.

RR, there are facts, yes, but our ability to understand them is not perfect. Facts, as you use the term, are phenomena left over from events in the past - the microwave background radiation from the Big Bang that we use to describe and study it, fossils, ancient rocks, etc. You know we get all of our understanding of Earth's early environment from ancient rocks?(and models based on predictions made in chemistry and physics).

So how good our science is at measuring, studying - even noticing - these "facts" is the limit of our ability to know the past.
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#158482 Mar 4, 2013
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
Their problem is simply RELIGION aka Organized Superstition.
Some are literally obsessed with it.
The Christian view that all intercourse outside marriage is immoral was based upon the view that all sexual intercourse, even within marriage, is regrettable.
A view of this sort, which goes against biological facts, can only be regarded by some people as a morbid aberration. The fact that it is embedded in Christian ethics has made Christianity throughout its whole history a force tending towards mental disorders and unwholesome views of life.
The Church had devastating impact upon society. As the Church assumed leadership, activity in the fields of medicine, technology, science, education, history, art and commerce all but collapsed.
Technology disappeared and the Church became the most cohesive power in Western society. The extensive aqueduct and plumbing systems vanished.
Orthodox Christians taught that all aspects of the flesh should be reviled and therefore discouraged washing as much as possible.
Toilets and indoor plumbing disappeared. Disease became commonplace as sanitation and hygiene deteriorated. For hundreds of years, towns and villages were decimated by epidemics.
Europe entered the Dark Ages.
“Organised religion is violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism, tribalism, and bigotry, invested in ignorance and hostile to free inquiry, contemptuous of women and coercive toward children.”
~Christopher Hitchens
Good post, and Theists often ask, "What is the harm done by religion?"

"I'm against religion because it teaches you to be satisfied with NOT understanding the world around you."

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#158483 Mar 4, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not what you offered as the "fact of evolution".
Now you offer a new "fact of evolution".
See how it works? You offer your "fact"; it gets shot down, so you think of another one.
Natural selection cannot be both a "component" of evolution and at the same time be "evolution".
If natural selection is evolution, they are the same thing.
They are not.
Natural selection only means some of a population fail to survive, and others with a particular trait survive.
That involves NO EVOLUTION. It involves a population, a hostile environment, death, and then a population in which more members have the aforementioned trait.
No "evolution" happened there, unless you define evolution so loosely that it looses any identity.
And that is exactly what you want to do.
If only some individuals in a population survive and they do so because of a trait they have, and that trait is passed onto their offspring, that is evolution, Buck.

I really can't see how you're denying that natural selection is an evolutionary process. It is the mechanism by which adaptation evolves.

Genetic drift doesn't produce adaptation. Gene flow rarely does. It's natural selection, baby, all the way.
christianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

#158484 Mar 4, 2013
01Justsayin wrote:
One cannot prove or disprove the existence of God using the scientific method.
youd be correct IF you KNEW what god is

do you?

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#158485 Mar 4, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Not to mention smallpox, cholera, and bubonic plague.
But on another note...
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/...
Thanks, Aura - yeah, big news! One of my supervisors studies HIV/AIDS and will be excited to read this.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#158486 Mar 4, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Like you keep your mouth and brain totally separated?
Is that a sexual thing?
christianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

#158487 Mar 4, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
I challenge any Topix atheist to prove ANY true chaos in this existence. Not apparent, which would just be a result of not knowing everything involved, but true unadulterated chaos.
.
YOUR mind!!

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#158488 Mar 4, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Good post, and Theists often ask, "What is the harm done by religion?"
"I'm against religion because it teaches you to be satisfied with NOT understanding the world around you."
What is to understand?

You make a living, you make babies, and you try to enjoy the limited time here.

Bubba, you ain't taking a damned thing you "learned" here with you. Right?

You live your life, let others live theirs.
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#158489 Mar 4, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You have a propensity to oversimplify things you wish were simple.
Tell me, since you are a temporary being, personality, experiencer of things, and future dust pile lost to history, just what does it add to your life experience "knowing" you are just a piece of stellar shit with no future, no past, no nothing but the right now? Anything you have done is already lost, they are just memories of yours that will expire when you do. Illusions.
Can you convey to us how that is better than our own illusions?
very simply..I don't lie to myself simply because it might make me feel all warm and fuzzy!!

And all of what you just said scares the shit out of you doesn't it? Your terror of ceasing to exist is written all over this post. You're not talking about me, you're reflecting on your own mortality. How very sad that you should spend your life, the only one you're going to have, draped in fear. I can understand that the only way you can get out of bed in the morning and face life is with the belief that you will never truly die, without that safety net, life would be unbearable for you. How incredibly sad.

The life philosophy I have is so much more courageous than yours. I know that this is all there is. We all have a turn, and then make way for those to follow. We have a responsibility to try and leave the the world a better place than when we entered. Try to leave something behind to enrich the lives of those to follow. It doesn't have to be much, anything. Build something, advance a discipline, contribute to the advancement of science or art. Knowing that this is all you get makes life so much more precious, you have a tendency to enjoy every moment. That fact that I am made up of the same stuff as the stars overwhelms me. I look at the night sky in absolute awe, knowing that I am part of that spender. When my time is up, I will graciously make way for those behind me, as they will eventually make way for this behind them, and so life continues, glorious and fulfilling. Filled with goals and challenges, with pure joy for those how understand what life is meant to be.

You just go right ahead and stick to your delusions, continue to live in fear, continue to be terrified of the dark and the unknown, your choice!
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#158490 Mar 4, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
What is to understand?
You make a living, you make babies, and you try to enjoy the limited time here.
Bubba, you ain't taking a damned thing you "learned" here with you. Right?
You live your life, let others live theirs.
Goddidit.....look no further. As soon as you say Goddidit, any journey of discovery is over. As soon as you say "I don't know" then and only then does the journey begin.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#158491 Mar 4, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>very simply..I don't lie to myself simply because it might make me feel all warm and fuzzy!!
And all of what you just said scares the shit out of you doesn't it? Your terror of ceasing to exist is written all over this post. You're not talking about me, you're reflecting on your own mortality. How very sad that you should spend your life, the only one you're going to have, draped in fear. I can understand that the only way you can get out of bed in the morning and face life is with the belief that you will never truly die, without that safety net, life would be unbearable for you. How incredibly sad.
The life philosophy I have is so much more courageous than yours. I know that this is all there is. We all have a turn, and then make way for those to follow. We have a responsibility to try and leave the the world a better place than when we entered. Try to leave something behind to enrich the lives of those to follow. It doesn't have to be much, anything. Build something, advance a discipline, contribute to the advancement of science or art. Knowing that this is all you get makes life so much more precious, you have a tendency to enjoy every moment. That fact that I am made up of the same stuff as the stars overwhelms me. I look at the night sky in absolute awe, knowing that I am part of that spender. When my time is up, I will graciously make way for those behind me, as they will eventually make way for this behind them, and so life continues, glorious and fulfilling. Filled with goals and challenges, with pure joy for those how understand what life is meant to be.
You just go right ahead and stick to your delusions, continue to live in fear, continue to be terrified of the dark and the unknown, your choice!
You are full of shit.

Just another delusional Utopian.

I'm terrified of death, eh?

It's not a fun event. Nothing you would want to do for recreation. But I checked out before in a conscious state. You haven't. You are whistling past the graveyard.

If you are lucky your end will be very quick and final. A done deal. If you get sick and linger, I will guarantee you will go through some agony as that end approaches. Your whistling will stop. You will realize the illusory life you led. Reality really starts to set in. Good luck to you.

The difference between you and me and experience with that subject is I went through that emotional agony. You talk big. Let's say we see it coming and it is unavoidable, we can join hands and walk into death. I would just step from here to there, but likely to pause because I will have to pull you those last steps. Or I may just let you go.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#158492 Mar 4, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Goddidit.....look no further. As soon as you say Goddidit, any journey of discovery is over. As soon as you say "I don't know" then and only then does the journey begin.
Your journey of discovery consists of reading books. Mine was breaking parts of my body in doing it. In addition to reading books.

Do you really think your blathering impresses me?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#158493 Mar 4, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that a sexual thing?
Only when the bartender starts yelling "Last call!"
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#158494 Mar 4, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Your journey of discovery consists of reading books. Mine was breaking parts of my body in doing it. In addition to reading books.
Do you really think your blathering impresses me?
You....are the last person on the face of the earth that I would care to impress.

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