Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#157774
Mar 2, 2013
 
Well Buck those of us who are skinnier and smarter when presented with a question seek out actual observable answers, not just saying some supernatural deity did it.
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
What caused such a thing? Every event has a cause. What caused time to begin? Just the objective facts, please, no speculation.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

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#157775
Mar 2, 2013
 
The best definition of a God that exists is the claim that the word God can best be applied to everthing that exists, and the possibility of what has existed, will exist, or possibily could exist, including imaginary things and hallucinations accepted as such (imaginary and hallucinations). That would exist and that would be a pretty awesome definition of God. What I like best about it is that it is bigger than any other definition of Goid I can think of, and should preempt lesser definitions of lesser gods - and it also stipulates existence, present tense, and the possibility of existence in other times, and other dimensions. That God seems so impossible for humans to have much if any knowledge of that it should make people shut up and not make many detailed claims about it, as a whole, as they unfortunately tend to do (make claims) about lesser gods. It most definately does not go out on a limb about improbable attributes, such as being both all good and all powerful, that are claimed for lesser Gods that are claimed to exist and be wonderful and mighty, and all those hymny things that the adoring worshippers want to attribute to it - mindlessly, in my view. They mostly want a powerful invisible, invincible, loving, totally relable super-mommy figure to rescue them from current problems and promise to rescue them from any future problems, I think.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#157776
Mar 2, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, there are some of us that notice and remember that frequency, even when you don't.
So far though, you have not once been capable of catching one of my errors. RR managed to catch one of mine, even JuicyLu I believe caught one of my errors, now Illuminatrix. But you have caught none of them, not one. Are you sure you know what you're doing?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#157777
Mar 2, 2013
 
Aw fatass is going full Christian now as we all knew he was, even quoting scripture.

Well that makes sense after all the praise you give the DI, you know that Christian think tank? Where they pray each day before starting?

Lmfao!
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Because it exists not only with man, but outside of and independently of man, and has no terms or calculations recognizable to man. Man has no negotiating or bargaining power with it; he cannot manipulate it. Man can experience it, and that's all.
I John 4:8 - "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#157778
Mar 2, 2013
 
Lol! Yes indeed every theist sees god in the mirror because god is a projection of theirs. Well played sir.

Enjoy the game and all the best :)
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Good to see you and all the others on here. Sigh, not much have changed.
But Double Fine have all the answers all the people on here was looking for.
Yes, Double Fine have seen God!!
He is living in Double Fine's mirror
:)
Double Fine signing off.
Cheers

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#157779
Mar 2, 2013
 

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Evolution doesn't even deal with that. Seriously you need to stop blending several sciences together like a smoothie. Scientists say they don't know all the time. It's what keeps science progressing seeking out those unknowns.
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
But kitty, evolution does not create life itself!! Evolution can't tell us how the first organism came into existence!! Evolution does not create anything from scratch!!
Like the Laws of gravity do not create gravity itself. Where did gravity come from?
This just doesn't make sense!!
Why is science so afraid to say; "we don't know"?
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

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#157780
Mar 2, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Well Buck those of us who are skinnier and smarter when presented with a question seek out actual observable answers, not just saying some supernatural deity did it.
<quoted text>
Buck is a bore, and I do not understand why smart people do not ignore him and have intelligent discussions with each other instead. That is why I rarely visit and attempt to communicate with someone who has written something somewhat interesting and provocative, and have my doubts whether people prefer such discussions, rather than arguing with the idiots. Sorry to be so blunt. If you enjoy it, no problem with argument, but I do not get the value of it, compared with discussion with another intelligent person with whom one has nuanced quibbles, or with whom one can discuss multiple dimensions of interesting questions. For example, I think we missed a great opportunity as a species when the asteroid went by so close. It should have been located much sooner and visited as it departed, with adequate technological means to explore its size, shape, make-up, etc, and get some ideas for what could be done to nudge a future approaching asteroid off course if it were coming dangerously close to earth. In short, humans should tentatively play God with the future of earth, in order to save it - rather than to allow idiots to do continuing harm.

Since: Jul 12

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#157781
Mar 2, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Oh Chunky Buck is mad!
Sorry fatsy but you aren't scary
Ok chill out fatboy.
Because I pity you
you are going to be Dave's bride
if lardass Buck
I would drop him with minimal force
Temper, temper......

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#157782
Mar 2, 2013
 

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You believe in god because you're afraid or your upcoming death due to old age and finger chopping and your belief gives you a measure of comfort.

Death is a natural part of life. Stop being so afraid that just makes your limited remaining time miserable. Instead celebrate and cherish your memories of magnets and strings with family.
Dave Nelson wrote:
Wish I knew some math.
Let's see. Observable universe. Let's be generous and give modern cosmology a 50-50 chance of being right.
Now, if we double the potential for being wrong by doubling the volume of the universe, what would the odds be? Then on and on until we get to that 21 times. What would the odds of being right be then?
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

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#157783
Mar 2, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
Wish I knew some math.
Let's see. Observable universe. Let's be generous and give modern cosmology a 50-50 chance of being right.
Now, if we double the potential for being wrong by doubling the volume of the universe, what would the odds be? Then on and on until we get to that 21 times. What would the odds of being right be then?
I know that there are those who believe that it can be accurate to consider certain matters with math. But how do they know that math corresponds to reality?

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

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#157784
Mar 2, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolution is a THEORY, dumb ass. Remember that before spouting it off as evidence.
A scientific theory has been tested repeatedly and is correct for all observed results.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

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#157785
Mar 2, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
You believe in god because you're afraid or your upcoming death due to old age and finger chopping and your belief gives you a measure of comfort.
Death is a natural part of life. Stop being so afraid that just makes your limited remaining time miserable. Instead celebrate and cherish your memories of magnets and strings with family.
<quoted text>
Here you are arguing with Dave Nelson, and I have forgotten most of the names of the ones I think are not worth discussing things with. At least BC is memorable, however awful! You I remember as mostly sensible, but maybe a bit too sure in the way you state things - I doubt if you are such a authoritarian personality as to insist that you know. You are venturing good guesses about people's psychology - fear of death or of dying - and making reasonable suggestions for how to live more happily now. I think you are likely correct in many cases, but not absolutely correct in all cases. Still you are closer to rational than most - either "hard" believers or "hard" atheists who claim to know one thing or the other. I consider myself to be an agnostic (not making a knowledge claim) atheist (not believing in a God such as it is usually defined - and my own definition is definately not the usual one, nor do I connect with it in any way as a believer in it - it is more of an attempt at definition that is useful to trump all other definitions that I think are ridiculous). Good luck with your arguments if you enjoy them. If you ever want a converstion with me, I do not have my own computer, and only have time on Sat AM late after Chris Hayes and Melissa Harris Perry on MSNBC. From 11 to 1 central time. That is my way of both giving up on topix and yet not giving up on some persons I think are worthwhile conversing with, such as you.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#157786
Mar 2, 2013
 
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> I know that there are those who believe that it can be accurate to consider certain matters with math. But how do they know that math corresponds to reality?
Well, for a very long time they had a lot of blackboards, then came the white boards and markers ... now they do it in a fraction of the time and test it all on computer. The math is the easy part to prove.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

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#157787
Mar 2, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Evolution doesn't even deal with that. Seriously you need to stop blending several sciences together like a smoothie. Scientists say they don't know all the time. It's what keeps science progressing seeking out those unknowns.
<quoted text>
That was to Clementia. I can see a difference in trying to correct people who make false accusations - such as that scientists are afraid to say they don't know - because they do not know any better, and those who make false accusations because they are outright liars. I suspect many who make false statements because they do not know any better are resistant to learning that they are mistaken, and won't reform after they are corrected, however! But your answer was interesting. You might also note that there are differences among the sciences and between physical sciences and socalled social sciences, and among scientists themselves, as to how authoritative and arbitrary they should when they think they have discovered the answer to something - or THE ANSWER if they are too sure and too proud of themselves.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#157788
Mar 2, 2013
 
I pity topix theists because of their ignorance. Not just that they are ignorant but it's the type of ignorance they suffer from. It's not an ignorance of what they simply don't know but rather an ignorance of what they refuse to know.

When presented with observable data that goes against their superstitious beliefs, instead of thoughtfully considering it they instead say their superstition is 100% correct so the actual observable data must be wrong.

I find this sad we as humans have one thing we excel at and that is reasoning. This is what has allowed us as a species to thrive and progress. Rejecting reason is rejecting your birthright and terribly sad. There is a magnificence and beauty to the natural process. We observe the natural process' splendor and awesome power more and more each day and we don't need to use invisible sky wizards that only reveal themselves when you die.

I find such a god concept dulling and restrictive to the fascinating natural processes. Even now we can observe the universe expanding, animals evolving before our very eyes, other planets that very well may be able to support life. Such discoveries would amaze and fascinate the ancient people's far more than any campfire story of a god.

And 100 years from now our discoveries of the natural processes will progress and be even greater and more fascinating. In the future people will look back at theists and will marvel at how wrong they really were, just as how we today smile and marvel at ancient people who thought the great rain spirit could be tempted to make it rain by dancing.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#157789
Mar 2, 2013
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
R u talking about physical attributes of God?
Character attribute.

Omnipotence, omniscience, omnibenevolence, things like that.

Does he asnswer prayers? Are women second class citizens? Is beating a slave ok as long as he doesn't die right away? Did he really flood the entire world? Did he send himself to earth in human form so he could kill himself and then go be with himself sitting at his own right hand? Does he care if you go to church? Does he demand 10% of your income? Does he judge you by faith or by works?

Things like that.

Since: Jul 12

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#157790
Mar 2, 2013
 
havent forgotten wrote:
Buck is a bore, and I do not understand why smart people do not ignore him and have intelligent discussions with each other instead.
Am intelligent person would have chosen the word "others" instead.

Just sayin...

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#157791
Mar 2, 2013
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
But kitty, evolution does not create life itself!! Evolution can't tell us how the first organism came into existence!! Evolution does not create anything from scratch!!
Like the Laws of gravity do not create gravity itself. Where did gravity come from?
This just doesn't make sense!!
Why is science so afraid to say; "we don't know"?
Evolution is not abiogenesis.

Science does say "I don't know...yet" when it comes to abiogenesis.

What happens once life is established is evolution.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#157792
Mar 2, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't know what evidence is.
There is an ever growing abundance of evidence that you are a senile old fool.

Since: Sep 08

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#157793
Mar 2, 2013
 
havent forgotten wrote:
The best definition of a God that exists is the claim that the word God can best be applied to everthing that exists, and the possibility of what has existed, will exist, or possibily could exist, including imaginary things and hallucinations accepted as such (imaginary and hallucinations). That would exist and that would be a pretty awesome definition of God. What I like best about it is that it is bigger than any other definition of Goid I can think of, and should preempt lesser definitions of lesser gods - and it also stipulates existence, present tense, and the possibility of existence in other times, and other dimensions. That God seems so impossible for humans to have much if any knowledge of that it should make people shut up and not make many detailed claims about it, as a whole, as they unfortunately tend to do (make claims) about lesser gods. It most definately does not go out on a limb about improbable attributes, such as being both all good and all powerful, that are claimed for lesser Gods that are claimed to exist and be wonderful and mighty, and all those hymny things that the adoring worshippers want to attribute to it - mindlessly, in my view. They mostly want a powerful invisible, invincible, loving, totally relable super-mommy figure to rescue them from current problems and promise to rescue them from any future problems, I think.
I agree with your initial definition of a God.

But even such a God wants its parts to work right. So there is a love there. We just don't know where we fit in the whole scheme of things.

Pressure will always come to spurious signals to get in line.:-)

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