Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

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#156108
Feb 24, 2013
 
Frank wrote:
Send your daughter to me. I abort them up to 9 months!
The Roman Empire was doing pretty well, until them damned christians took over.
CunningLinguist

Windermere, FL

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#156109
Feb 24, 2013
 

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Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
The modern scientific method, and the biggest advances, started under the Church.
"I don't think we're here for anything, we're just products of evolution. You can say 'Gee, your life must be pretty bleak if you don't think there's a purpose' but I'm anticipating a good lunch." ~James Watson (Discoverer of DNA)

“The biggest advantage to believing in God is you don't have to understand anything, no physics, no biology... I wanted to understand.”~James Watson

“Science improves with time. Religion improves by dying out.”~Quandong Loonata

you are late for church DAVID

Since: May 10

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#156110
Feb 24, 2013
 

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madscot wrote:
<quoted text>

Yes, and every walk of life works together to eliminate slavery in all forms.
Not really. Here in the U.S., the government determines that if you work, you must work a portion of the year for the federal government, and they get to set the percentage.

Involuntary servitude. That's slavery.

That's also why the founders specified in the Constitution that this would not be permitted.

Then came liberalism.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#156111
Feb 24, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Or incorrect gravity calculations, which the creation of dark matter would make the numbers crunch to make them "right". Easier than getting a different take on how things work.
Alternative theories of gravity were also tried. For example, MOND and TeVeS. None of the alternatives have been able to make predictions agreeing with observations. Even MOND, for example, requires dark matter to agree with observations.
How things should work versus how they do work. That is the difference between a math head physicist and a real physicist.
And if you can come up with a *detailed* alternative theory that explains the observed phenomena, then you will be listened to. But a *detailed* theory will have to give precise mathematical predictions that can be tested. Your dismissal of math simply means you refuse to use the language required to really understand the universe.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

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#156113
Feb 24, 2013
 
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Not unless stupidity is damning.
Ain't you lucky for that!! You WAGs kill me! lol!

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#156114
Feb 24, 2013
 

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Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
It is all based upon the identification and definition of the physical forces from long ago. All formulas and expectations are based on those. Very simply, the observations at that time may have been close approximations good for the time and total knowledge for the time, but they have failed as knowledge has advanced. If they failed, they are wrong. The basic model needs revamping.
You seem to think that hasn't been tried. It has. In multiple ways. It has failed.
The only claim they can give for "detecting" dark matter, or even the normal nuclear particles, is because of old math models. They really haven't "seen" this stuff. Just measurements on a dial calibrated to the old models.
There is a lot of bullshit in theoretical physics.
Even alternative models of gravity require dark matter in order to agree with observations. You seem to think that nobody has thought of the possibility that our model of gravity is wrong. The problem is finding a model of gravity that agrees with the observations. In particular, the measurements we have at the level of the solar system don't allow much flexibility away from the standard model. That is a very tight constraint on any alternative models. Then, to get the velocity data from stars in other galaxies to agree *also* restricts the possible models even further. If we then require that the model agree with observations from colliding galactic clusters (like the Bullet Cluster), things get even harder because the gravitational effects aren't localized to where the matter is. Finally, getting the whole thing to agree with the cosmic background radiation data has excluded all proposed alternative theories of gravity that do not include dark matter (it is possible some of the alternatives work when dark matter is included).
The real knowledge will come from R&D in existing technology, not those guys.
There are many lines of we can use to increase understanding.

Since: Sep 08

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#156115
Feb 24, 2013
 

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polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Alternative theories of gravity were also tried. For example, MOND and TeVeS. None of the alternatives have been able to make predictions agreeing with observations. Even MOND, for example, requires dark matter to agree with observations.
<quoted text>
And if you can come up with a *detailed* alternative theory that explains the observed phenomena, then you will be listened to. But a *detailed* theory will have to give precise mathematical predictions that can be tested. Your dismissal of math simply means you refuse to use the language required to really understand the universe.
As I said, I am one node on a network. One human, one brain. One person out of many can see a path, but it can take many of them to cut through it.

So, I, who lacks the math training, is supposed to supply all of you experts (in the hundreds of thousands?) in that field with detailed plans, road maps, and the whole shebang prepackaged for you?

BTW, I am not the only one who sees that alternate path.

Since: Sep 08

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#156116
Feb 24, 2013
 

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polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to think that hasn't been tried. It has. In multiple ways. It has failed.
<quoted text>
Even alternative models of gravity require dark matter in order to agree with observations. You seem to think that nobody has thought of the possibility that our model of gravity is wrong. The problem is finding a model of gravity that agrees with the observations. In particular, the measurements we have at the level of the solar system don't allow much flexibility away from the standard model. That is a very tight constraint on any alternative models. Then, to get the velocity data from stars in other galaxies to agree *also* restricts the possible models even further. If we then require that the model agree with observations from colliding galactic clusters (like the Bullet Cluster), things get even harder because the gravitational effects aren't localized to where the matter is. Finally, getting the whole thing to agree with the cosmic background radiation data has excluded all proposed alternative theories of gravity that do not include dark matter (it is possible some of the alternatives work when dark matter is included).
<quoted text>
There are many lines of we can use to increase understanding.
Your model of gravity is based on the inside working out. Some magical force emanating from the nucleus. This is what the Big Bang is derived from. You are totally ignoring this universe being created from the outside pressing in. I have posted quite a bit about space being a super liquid type medium that formed whirlpools and closed spheres of whirling space forming "particles", and the density differential caused by that motion being gravity.

Why is modern physics so focused on looking out and determining how the universe was formed instead of looking backwards to see how it could be formed? We have the knowledge and the technology to follow that path.

Since: Sep 08

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#156118
Feb 24, 2013
 

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It is really hilarious when you have these modern physics experts such as Poly tell you there is no deity because they haven't found one. Not that they were looking for one. So just sit back and take their assurances there is no deity, they are the experts in the matter, and ignore the fact they have made many huge mistakes in their past and continuing determinations of how things work. But they will sing to high heaven the minor predictions they make with their Holy Math worship.

Like I said before, they are just another sect of number worshipers and their high priests that go back a very long ways.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#156119
Feb 24, 2013
 

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Dave Nelson wrote:
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Your model of gravity is based on the inside working out. Some magical force emanating from the nucleus. This is what the Big Bang is derived from. You are totally ignoring this universe being created from the outside pressing in. I have posted quite a bit about space being a super liquid type medium that formed whirlpools and closed spheres of whirling space forming "particles", and the density differential caused by that motion being gravity.
Why is modern physics so focused on looking out and determining how the universe was formed instead of looking backwards to see how it could be formed? We have the knowledge and the technology to follow that path.
Why is it when you religatards refute science you refer to mainstream theory as "Your Model" ?
Indeed many of those who want to argue standard physics and science
try to downgrade the subject matter by personalizing with the
person talking about standards. You should refer to it as
The Standard Model not Your Model. Or Classical Physics and not "your theory".

Since: Sep 08

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#156120
Feb 24, 2013
 

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Verily, verily I say unto thee, there is no god higher than Number.

So sayeth the worshipers of Nu and divide,mber.

Numbers are tools of men. Men have turned them in too gods.

In the beginning there was no numbers. There was just that which existed. The All. You can call it one if you wish. But since man usually had 10 fingers handy, he started dividing that all, and got mesmerized by this ability to divide. And divide, and divide, and divide, and divide, and divide, until he removed himself from one and began to fancy himself as unique.

He has been dizzy ever since with all these division he created.

Or something like that.

Since: Sep 08

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#156121
Feb 24, 2013
 

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Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is it when you religatards refute science you refer to mainstream theory as "Your Model" ?
Indeed many of those who want to argue standard physics and science
try to downgrade the subject matter by personalizing with the
person talking about standards. You should refer to it as
The Standard Model not Your Model. Or Classical Physics and not "your theory".
Why do Topix atheists dispute the established definition of atheist?

The Your Model is a reactive description due to the advancement of it as a basis for non-belief by those non-believers who believe there is no deities.

If the non-beliefers kept the physics to simple analysis of cause and effect, then that sort of reaction would be less likely to come up. Curiously, though, is those non-believers then try to use that model based on cause and effect to advance the notion there is no cause and effect. Shit just happens.

Get some more balanced headed non-believers on here to discuss physics.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#156122
Feb 24, 2013
 

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Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do Topix atheists dispute the established definition of atheist?
The Your Model is a reactive description due to the advancement of it as a basis for non-belief by those non-believers who believe there is no deities.
If the non-beliefers kept the physics to simple analysis of cause and effect, then that sort of reaction would be less likely to come up. Curiously, though, is those non-believers then try to use that model based on cause and effect to advance the notion there is no cause and effect. Shit just happens.
Get some more balanced headed non-believers on here to discuss physics.

Now you are squirming around and making stuff up.
You are confusing standard physics with QM , you know they don't seethe same things the same. Atheists do not agree with the theist definition of atheist, for much the same reason a black man does not agree with the white mans definition of him.

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#156123
Feb 24, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you are squirming around and making stuff up.
You are confusing standard physics with QM , you know they don't seethe same things the same. Atheists do not agree with the theist definition of atheist, for much the same reason a black man does not agree with the white mans definition of him.
It's just a name tag. There are existing ones to describe one's self as a non-believer. Why the big deal? The term atheist has always been considered the term of one who "denies" the existence of a deity. Why the desperation to change the definition? If you are right, then you are right, right?

You are one of barely a handful of professed atheists on this forum that displays any intellect, original thinking, or human characteristic of a higher order. Most are nothing but screaming memes, spouting the same bullshit and insults. Reason and discourse evaporate when the noise level escalates. So much so I am classified as a Christian fundamentalist. You have got caught in the association with them.

Speaking of noise and the evaporation of reason and thinking. Have you thought of changing the type of music you seem to like? Something that allows you to think?:-)

Since: Sep 08

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#156124
Feb 24, 2013
 
Speaking of path cutting.

Theism allows for looking outside the box and cutting a path toward it. You might hit a dead end, but you keep hacking and you may get there. You have to find the way.

Atheism has no vision to even look for a path to get out of this box. You stay stuck. If there isn't a straight road already paved for you, you mill around like cattle in a pen. And moo.

Or something like that.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#156125
Feb 24, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
It's just a name tag. There are existing ones to describe one's self as a non-believer. Why the big deal? The term atheist has always been considered the term of one who "denies" the existence of a deity. Why the desperation to change the definition? If you are right, then you are right, right?
You are one of barely a handful of professed atheists on this forum that displays any intellect, original thinking, or human characteristic of a higher order. Most are nothing but screaming memes, spouting the same bullshit and insults. Reason and discourse evaporate when the noise level escalates. So much so I am classified as a Christian fundamentalist. You have got caught in the association with them.
Speaking of noise and the evaporation of reason and thinking. Have you thought of changing the type of music you seem to like? Something that allows you to think?:-)
I like many types of music, I prefer the kind that stirs my emotion. Without that all that's left is thinking.

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#156126
Feb 24, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
I like many types of music, I prefer the kind that stirs my emotion. Without that all that's left is thinking.
Midnight Rambler by the Stones always stirred my emotions, but not the most productive one's. In the intellectual sense, that is.

Since: Jan 13

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#156127
Feb 24, 2013
 

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Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> We are talking about the very early universe, before 500,000 years.
But the physical laws existed since minutes after the fact.
You observed this?

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#156128
Feb 24, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Nothing is ever absolute , except in horseshoes and hand grenades.
Are you absolutely sure about that.:-)
Imhotep

Brooksville, FL

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#156129
Feb 24, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
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Little one, atheists don't believe in deities.
Why do you display such an anger against a non-existent deity when it was random chance and reactions that cost you your leg? Was Jesus driving that car?
You are a beautiful young woman with a lot of soul and intelligence. Without that leg missing you would just be another one of millions. With that leg missing you become more unique and precious. If danger appears and you had two legs, you would run for your life by yourself. With one leg you will have a huge crowd gather about you to protect you.
Pray Dave, regrow that limb for her.
Nothing fails quite like prayer.

"Religion consists in a set of things which the average man thinks he believes and wishes he was certain of." ~Mark Twain

"Our Bible reveals to us the character of our god with minute and remorseless exactness... It is perhaps the most damnatory biography that exists in print anywhere. It makes Nero an angel of light and leading by contrast" ~Mark Twain

"If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be -- a Christian." ~Mark Twain

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