Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 255484 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#154825 Feb 18, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>And apparently doesn't understand science at all.
Hiya, Hiding!
Hello Mac! Hugs and hugs for you!

:)

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#154826 Feb 18, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
You’re talking about a gradual blend in evolution. But here’s the deal. If there was a genetic mutation among the primates that resulted in a genetic change. Most likely that hiccup was to only one offspring and not several hundred or several thousands at the same time.
Stay with me here just a moment and think about this. Humans have 23 pairs of Chromosomes and primates have 24. Are you going to state that this fusion of Chromosome 2 happened to several thousand at the same time?
That is hardly believable that a radical change in Chromosomes could happen to so many humans at the same time. I just don’t believe that is possible. How could anyone believe that? Perhaps one change in one offspring. That would be more believable. Then we would have the first human with 23 pairs of Chromosomes.
At the split 6-12 million years ago the common ancestor who acquired the chromosomal change , was hardly human, and undoubtedly more apelike than man at first.
But when we talk the LCA of all the human homo sapiens species
such a Mt. Eve and Y c Adam , they're were very well established
as archaic humans. The difference was Mt. Eve being the direct mother (not a aunt). As opposed to other humans who had a different mother.

"Perhaps one change in one offspring. That would be more believable. Then we would have the first human with 23 pairs of Chromosomes"

This is what happened probably near or at the split , or divergence of human /ape on the tree of life.
But this chromosome split most likely predates homo sapiens sapiens, so it is still the same answer.

There were multiple humans when humans became human.

And It does make perfect sense.

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#154827 Feb 18, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
If this chromosome fusion is true it should be tested. Scientist can fuse chromosome 2 in a primate then that primate would give birth to a human. But I have heard of no such experiments.
A lot of couples would love to adopt a baby.
You're crazy , apes are still a different species. If we were to fused gene 2 in them , the result would be another species, human like maybe ...but a cousin and another branch on the tree of life.

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#154828 Feb 18, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
You're right. That particular change only happened to one individual who, apparently, was successful and multiplied. His/her children were successful and eventually hominin with different chromosomes went extinct through genetic drift.
It would be a mistake to assume that all human genetic material can trace back to that one chromosome shift. It cannot. When that individual was born, there were lots of other individuals of the same species around. S/he mated with someone w/out the chromosome blend, but his/her blended chromosome was either 1) dominant in that all offspring had it or 2) was co-dominant and lucky through genetic drift. Importantly, his/her other genes mixed, through sexual reproduction, just like everyone else's. In other words, the only genetic material we can trace back to that individual is the chromosome blending error.
Others contributed genes to the next generations in other areas. But, for whatever reason, that chromosome came to dominate in the gene pool of hominins.
Also, that individual was not the "first human" but the "first hominin with 22 Chromosomes." Humans are relatively recent in a long line of hominins - very likely, the chromosome 2 merger happened b/c of the reproductive isolation of hominin from the other great apes (they were interbreeding with Pan and Gorilla after they first appear in the fossil record, some 6.3 million years ago).
Here's one of the first studies to demonstrate what happened with Chromosome 2. They don't give dates, but they provide ideas of how we could figure out the date of the merger (by the numbers of mutations since then):
http://www.pnas.org/content/88/20/9051.full.p...
Here's a very, very technical paper that details human genetic phylogeny (where genes arose in the evolutionary lineage that eventually produced humans). It's probably a bit too complicated, sorry:
http://173.83.99.134/publicati ons/GuEtal_NG02.pdf
Finally, getting a bit off topic, here is an abstract detailing where the human sex chromosomes come from and when they first emerged in the animal kingdom:
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/286/5441/96...
It's impossible to deny that humans evolved just like every other species on the planet. Our genes connect us to them. You are an animal, whether you like it or not, and we are all cognitively and culturally distinct from all other animals.
Hello hiding, lol Your answer is much better than mine. But didn't know you would be here to give it. Eagle is as unknowing how we evolved as anyone we could hope to meet though. BTW WB

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#154829 Feb 18, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello Mac! Hugs and hugs for you!
:)
Bog, it's early here...
CunningLinguist

Casselberry, FL

#154832 Feb 18, 2013
andet1987 wrote:
<quoted text>
please change your name asap. it looks like cunnilingus. thanks.
Pick one for me,,, thanx

Connie Lingus
Dixie Rect
Mona Lott
Phil Accio

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#154833 Feb 18, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Building blocks of life may indeed form in a lab environment with some outside technical interference.
Self creating life from non life forms has not happened, ever.
Remember as a kid those ABC building blocks?
Take all 26 letters and putting them in a large bag and shake them up. Then toss them out onto the floor.
What are the chances these letters will self assemble into complex words lined up from one end to the other in a orderly fashion?
Those blocks are inert. The molecules of life are not. HUGE difference.
CunningLinguist

Casselberry, FL

#154834 Feb 18, 2013
andet1987 wrote:
<quoted text>
please change your name asap. it looks like cunnilingus. thanks.
What do you suggest?

Phil Accio, Connie Lingus or Dixie Rect
Thinking

Ilminster, UK

#154835 Feb 18, 2013
One effect of Evolution is that not all combinations are equally likely or possible.
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Building blocks of life may indeed form in a lab environment with some outside technical interference.
Self creating life from non life forms has not happened, ever.
Remember as a kid those ABC building blocks?
Take all 26 letters and putting them in a large bag and shake them up. Then toss them out onto the floor.
What are the chances these letters will self assemble into complex words lined up from one end to the other in a orderly fashion?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#154836 Feb 18, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
You don’t believe there was a first man and woman?
How could there not be a first?
1) Changes from one generation to the next are small, but cumulative. So no individual is significantly different than their parents.

2) The line dividing 'non-human' and 'human' is broad and fuzzy. Even if the ends are clearly non-human or clearly human, it isn't easy to classify those in the transition stages.

3) Changes occur in populations not individuals. There were typically thousands of individuals at any given time, all of which were similar biologically.

These together make the concept of a 'first human' silly. At any stage there was a population of similar individuals. That population changes over generations, accumulating small changes from one generation to the next. At the beginning of the transition, all the individuals in the population are non-human, and at the end they are all human, but at any given stage, the classification is arbitrary.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#154837 Feb 18, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
If this chromosome fusion is true it should be tested. Scientist can fuse chromosome 2 in a primate then that primate would give birth to a human. But I have heard of no such experiments.
A lot of couples would love to adopt a baby.
I doubt such an experiment would be run for ethical reasons.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#154838 Feb 18, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
That couldn't work. You'd only have a fused Chromosome of Ape (chimp, gorilla, whichever you used) genes.
In addition to fusing the chromosomes, you'd also have to replace all the genes with human genes and all the non-coding sections with human non-coding sections. That's probably impossible. But if you successfully replaced the ape DNA in its entirety with human DNA, then you'd have a human.
If that's not impossible, it's a lot more difficult than simply cloning a human (also full or problems, many of them ethical). If I was the researcher doing it, I would take the cell you wanted me to transform into a human cell, dump it in the garbage and find a human cell. There, replaced!
Exactly.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#154839 Feb 18, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
If this chromosome fusion is true it should be tested. Scientist can fuse chromosome 2 in a primate then that primate would give birth to a human. But I have heard of no such experiments.
A lot of couples would love to adopt a baby.
You do realize that was far from being the *only* change in going from non-humans to humans. Yes, it was a significant one, but there are many other genes that changed also.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#154840 Feb 18, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
If this chromosome fusion is true it should be tested. Scientist can fuse chromosome 2 in a primate then that primate would give birth to a human. But I have heard of no such experiments.
A lot of couples would love to adopt a baby.
Why to demonstrate you don't understand anything scientific.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#154841 Feb 18, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
If this chromosome fusion is true it should be tested. Scientist can fuse chromosome 2 in a primate then that primate would give birth to a human. But I have heard of no such experiments.
A lot of couples would love to adopt a baby.
Are you really that simple? I know that there are really stupid people out there who believe crap like that, but you claim to be educated.

No matter how many times you are told, evolution from one species to another, takes millions of years, you still demand overnight magic.

Religion claims instant magic, not science.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#154842 Feb 18, 2013
I miss a weekend & there's 2,000 more posts?

Have I missed anything?

Did the atheists finally admit there belief of no god?
Thinking

Ilminster, UK

#154843 Feb 18, 2013
"their"
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I miss a weekend & there's 2,000 more posts?
Have I missed anything?
Did the atheists finally admit there belief of no god?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#154844 Feb 18, 2013
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
Pick one for me,,, thanx
Connie Lingus
Dixie Rect
Mona Lott
Phil Accio
Mike Hunt

Mike Crotch

Harry Cox

Jack MeOff

Yorick Hunt

Will Bohnia

Harry Johnson

Woody Fondler

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#154845 Feb 18, 2013
Thinking wrote:
"their"
<quoted text>
*their*

Coffee ain't kicked in yet.

:)
Thinking

Ilminster, UK

#154846 Feb 18, 2013
jesus christ...
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Mike Hunt
Mike Crotch
Harry Cox
Jack MeOff
Yorick Hunt
Will Bohnia
Harry Johnson
Woody Fondler

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