Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Jan 13

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#153310
Feb 11, 2013
 

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polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would a first cause have to be eternal?
<quoted text>
Who is doing that? I have argued that it is a *possibility*. I don't know if it is actually the case.
<quoted text>
You have made a LOT of claims without proof.
How could it not be?

Time was caused, that is painfully obvious.

So whatever caused Time, had to be eternal/uncaused.

That time and energy regresses back to origin, is the reason that the Big Bang theory was proposed.

It is obvious that it all started somewhere.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

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#153311
Feb 11, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
I have already answered this, but again:
Your premise is false.
You assume that the instructions are universal and absolute in all instances of leprosy.
You also have no knowledge of the levitical laws being prophetic, so you cannot comprehend what they are actually representative of, on the prophetic and symbolic level.
But that is ok, because it is not for you anyway, unless you repent of your secular suppression of God.
Hence your confusion.
Obfuscation at it's finest.

Does this stated cure work?

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

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#153313
Feb 11, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
I am bemused why you keep making absolute moral judgements.
When you keep denying there can be absolute moral judgements.
----------
It is this foolish contraction that prevents me treating your question seriously.
And no matter how many times it is explained that this is not quite right, you still keep doing it...
Again with obfuscation.

So are you saying you think Exodus 21:2-6 and 20-21 are examples of good morals?
Or are you just trying to deflect the conversation?

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#153314
Feb 11, 2013
 

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Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me type slow so you might be able to grasp this ---
There is NO such thing as an "absolute morality".
Modern societal morality (aka ethics) has evolved over time as a natural part of homo sapiens being a social species.
You still have never even tried to define one (1) moral precept which you can show would not exist without Christianity. Just 1.
Why then, do you keeping making absolute moral judgements about Christian Morality, it absolute morality does not exist?

Please try to concentrate and understand the critique you are being subjected to...

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#153315
Feb 11, 2013
 

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Hedonist wrote:
You still have never even tried to define one (1) moral precept which you can show would not exist without Christianity. Just 1.
1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind.

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#153316
Feb 11, 2013
 

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Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Obfuscation at it's finest.
Does this stated cure work?
No, your premise was unsound.

As I explained.

Keep beating that donkey if you want, but your premise is still unsound.

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#153317
Feb 11, 2013
 

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Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Again with obfuscation.
So are you saying you think Exodus 21:2-6 and 20-21 are examples of good morals?
Or are you just trying to deflect the conversation?
Here you go again.

Defining "Good".

Whilst denying that "Good" can be defined...

You are contradicting yourself.

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#153318
Feb 11, 2013
 

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Hedonist, seriously now.

Concentrate for a moment.

You state there is no absolute moral standard of "good".

Then why do you keep appealing to an absolute moral standard of "good"?

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#153319
Feb 11, 2013
 
Adam wrote:
"I have an IQ that will get me into MENSA" Really?
I know.

That's as far as I got before I started laughing so hard my eyes were tearing up and I couldn't see.

I'm still catching my breath.

Good ol' Dave. Always a hoot.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#153320
Feb 11, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Instead of being a typical atheist & assuming everything, why don't you do a little research as to why there seems to be discrepancies.
Why does one say 41 generations and the other 76 generations?
Why was one written forward while the other backward?
Does the Levirate marriage tradition have anything to do with it?
You atheists CLAIM to be the smart ones but you have difficulty researching & understanding the simplest things.
Then answer your own questions.

Because when we research these things, we find inconsistencies that make the whole story self refuting yet you somehow manage to see these same inconsistencies as making perfect sense.

How do you do that?

Since: Jul 12

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#153321
Feb 11, 2013
 

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mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
The carnal mind is at war with God.
Seeking to suppress the truth.
Simple point to prove.
I have no desire to spend my time and energy trying to persuade certain people that there forefathers were not lizard men from Mars.
It is something that I simply dismiss as illogical.
Yet here are the atheists purposing (without any reason to purpose as an atheist), to deny and promote the non-existence of God.
Just as the Bible says they would...
With much vitriol anger and hatred.
As I said the other day, a suicide bomber would be impressed with the religious zeal many of these atheists express on this forum and all over the internet...
Atheists in general, seem to be the most intolerant and bigotted people out there.
And whatever you do, don't criticise their prime doctrine of homosexuality being a lovely thing.
That really gets the wrath of the herd going...
To be honest, though, this level of determined ignorance saddens me.
Agreed. These atheists are much like radical Islam in their tactics to "defeat" Christianity.

The funny thing is how much time they spend on God.(the same God they say they KNOW is fake...)
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

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#153322
Feb 11, 2013
 

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mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
So before mankind existed, a rock could both exist and not exist at the same time in the same place and in the same sense...?
Really?
As that rock was probably also the same rock that decided that life was required, you may have an interesting theorem going on there... ;-)
As to your 3 questions.
The number of options does not indicate truth, the truth out of the options indicates truth.
Common sense dictated that through experience, a rock could not exits and exist at the time. That was easy!!!

There is nothing that would "Require" that life was necessary, especially an inanimate piece of material like a rock. There was really easy!!!!

There are actually NO truths between the three choses. I refuse to deal in absolutes. Boy, keep those really easy questions coming!!!!!

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#153323
Feb 11, 2013
 

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blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Common sense dictated that through experience, a rock could not exits and exist at the time. That was easy!!!
There is nothing that would "Require" that life was necessary, especially an inanimate piece of material like a rock. There was really easy!!!!
There are actually NO truths between the three choses. I refuse to deal in absolutes. Boy, keep those really easy questions coming!!!!!
But you said the laws of logic were man made.

If that was true then the law of non-contradiction would not have been in place before mankind existed.

Therefore a rock could both exist and not exist in the same place at that same time in the same sense.

According to your worldview.

And you think your worldview is logical?
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

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#153324
Feb 11, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Good. So you blindly follow what assuming scientists tell you?
And yet you have the nerve to accuse Christians of blindly following?
You're a hypocrite.
You really have a problem with your attention span don't you. Either that or you are completely unable to comprehend the written word. I explained this to you back on post #153260 the difference between accepting science and accepting myths.

It would appear that you are totally against any kind of education, correct? We should throw all science books away, maybe we should simply burn all books on science sine we would be reading only what they "assumed" and would be blindly following. Of course that would include all books on Geology, Astronomy, Biology, astrophysics, physics, microbiology, all of the medical sciences, oceanography, mathematics, evolutionary biology, entomology, ect. I'm sure i'm missing a great number of the sciences. What would you plan then be for our species to advance out understanding of the world around us, or don't you think that is important?

Once again it is evident that you oppose anything that deals with education. You see ignorance as a worthy trait. Your post seem to support your opinion on education and remaining willfully ignorant. Ever think of running for the school board??? Just wondering!!!

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#153325
Feb 11, 2013
 

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http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Topix atheist brain patterns set to music.

Enjoy.

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#153326
Feb 11, 2013
 

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As can be seen by Hedonist and Blacklagoon most recent arguments:

1. Absolute morality does not exist and I will use absolute morality to prove it.

2. The Laws of logic did not exist before mankind, so a rock could exist and not exist before they got here (must have been confusing for the dinosaurs).

So the point?

The truth of God, the First Cause, is self evident.

The absurdity of the contrary (as displayed by our two atheists on the last couple of pages), can also be tested logically.

When the contrary argument is presented, it is soon reduced to arbitrariness and contradictions, revealing that the contrary is in fact error.

Case closed.
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

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#153327
Feb 11, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
But you said the laws of logic were man made.
If that was true then the law of non-contradiction would not have been in place before mankind existed.
Therefore a rock could both exist and not exist in the same place at that same time in the same sense.
According to your worldview.
And you think your worldview is logical?
is it your contention that before mankind existed a rock could exist and not exist at the same time?

Since you appear to deal in absolutes, do you ABSOLUTELY know that a rock can exists and not exists at the same time?

Remove yourself from your self-made psudo-intellecte for one moment and tell me if logically a rock can exist and cannot exist at the same time.

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#153328
Feb 11, 2013
 

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blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>You really have a problem with your attention span don't you. Either that or you are completely unable to comprehend the written word. I explained this to you back on post #153260 the difference between accepting science and accepting myths.
It would appear that you are totally against any kind of education, correct? We should throw all science books away, maybe we should simply burn all books on science sine we would be reading only what they "assumed" and would be blindly following. Of course that would include all books on Geology, Astronomy, Biology, astrophysics, physics, microbiology, all of the medical sciences, oceanography, mathematics, evolutionary biology, entomology, ect. I'm sure i'm missing a great number of the sciences. What would you plan then be for our species to advance out understanding of the world around us, or don't you think that is important?
Once again it is evident that you oppose anything that deals with education. You see ignorance as a worthy trait. Your post seem to support your opinion on education and remaining willfully ignorant. Ever think of running for the school board??? Just wondering!!!
I will shorten your argument for you, so that hopefully you can see your absurd first premise.

Only atheists can do science.
Christians aren't atheists.
So Christians can't do science.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

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#153329
Feb 11, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
I can do better.
Tacitus was born decades after the supposed death of Jesus anything he wrote about him would be he said she said at best.
He was an imperial and would never refer to anyone as Christ in an official document. He never says Jesus. Ever. And we had dozens of Christ figures at the time if not hundreds. But again he would never write that.
Pilate was not a prefect and Tacitus would have known this.
The earliest reference of this Christ passage in Tacitus work appears in the 15th century earlier versions do not have this in it.
Even Christian historians including several priests and reverends have moved away from the Tacitus forgery.
<quoted text>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Chris...

The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate and the existence of early Christians in Rome in his final work, Annals (written ca. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44.

The context of the passage is the six-day Great Fire of Rome that burned much of the city in AD 64 during the reign of Roman Emperor Nero. The passage is one of the earliest non-Christian references to the origins of Christianity, the execution of Christ described in the Canonical gospels, and the presence and persecution of Christians in 1st-century Rome.

Scholars generally consider Tacitus's reference to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate to be both authentic, and of historical value as an independent Roman source. Eddy and Boyd state that it is now "firmly established" that Tacitus provides a non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.

In terms of an overall context, historian Ronald Mellor has stated that the Annals is "Tacitus's crowning achievement" which represents the "pinnacle of Roman historical writing".] The passage is also of historical value in establishing three separate facts about Rome around AD 60:(i) that there were a sizable number of Christians in Rome at the time,(ii) that it was possible to distinguish between Christians and Jews in Rome, and (iii) that at the time pagans made a connection between Christianity in Rome and its origin in Judea.

The Annals passage (15.44), which has been subjected to much scholarly analysis, follows a description of the six-day Great Fire of Rome that burned much of Rome in July 64 AD.

The key part of the passage reads as follows:

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in JudŠa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind

Scholars generally consider Tacitus's reference to be genuine and of historical value as an independent Roman source about early Christianity that is in unison with other historical records.

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#153330
Feb 11, 2013
 

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blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>is it your contention that before mankind existed a rock could exist and not exist at the same time?
Since you appear to deal in absolutes, do you ABSOLUTELY know that a rock can exists and not exists at the same time?
Remove yourself from your self-made psudo-intellecte for one moment and tell me if logically a rock can exist and cannot exist at the same time.
No.

A rock cannot exist and not exist in the same place, the same time and in the same sense.

Because that would contradict the universal logical law of non-contradiction.

But you now have a problem.

Because you have claimed that man created the laws of logic.

So before mankind existed a rock could exist and not exist at the same time, in the same place and in the same sense.

This is what your atheism reduces you to.

Absurdity.

Isn't it about time you abandoned the illogical?

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