Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258476 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152755 Feb 10, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Why is it that you know so very little? Moral standards are set by societies. A group of people decide what is acceptable behavior, it usually addresses harm to member of that society. Laws are made, moral standards are accepted. Thats it. No God necessary. That would be especially true if the core of those standards came from the infamous 10 commandments. The first four of which deal solely with your God obsession with vanity. The other commandments are part of the Golden Rule which needs no God thing. Its always disturbing to me that nowhere in the 10 commandments is there anything about RAPE, or about CRUELTY TO CHILDREN. I guess it's a good thing we have the Golden rule to cover those horrors God felt were NOT necessary.
So if man defines morality, then slavery, which society deemed morally acceptable was ok?

I hope you see the absurdity of the position you hold when you try to give society the credit for setting morality...

You cannot argue that anything is intrinsically wrong or right, it is just a matter of crowd politics.

That then means that morality is merely the expression of the majorities desire.

Which creates a problem, when the majorities desire is harmful to the individual...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152756 Feb 10, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Modern secular humanist morality is by far superior and only getting better.
<quoted text>
If you say so, it must be true?

How can you argue that any morality is superior if you do not accept that absolute morality exists?

Illogical.

:-)

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#152757 Feb 10, 2013
But your god in the old and New Testament advocates for slavery, are you saying he was immoral for that?

I got a hundred bucks that says he dodges and avoids questions :)
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
So if man defines morality, then slavery, which society deemed morally acceptable was ok?
I hope you see the absurdity of the position you hold when you try to give society the credit for setting morality...
You cannot argue that anything is intrinsically wrong or right, it is just a matter of crowd politics.
That then means that morality is merely the expression of the majorities desire.
Which creates a problem, when the majorities desire is harmful to the individual...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152758 Feb 10, 2013
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
You're the one avoiding, mtimber. My argument does not appeal to absolute morality in any way.
Your moral system fails by it's OWN standards.
How can you state that any moral system is a failure, if you do not have a basis for defining morality?

Which you clearly do not...

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#152759 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
So if man defines morality, then slavery, which society deemed morally acceptable was ok?
I hope you see the absurdity of the position you hold when you try to give society the credit for setting morality...
You cannot argue that anything is intrinsically wrong or right, it is just a matter of crowd politics.
That then means that morality is merely the expression of the majorities desire.
Which creates a problem, when the majorities desire is harmful to the individual...
There is only one absurdity here. It comes from the person claiming that god exists without a single shred of proof.

Until you've proven the god you are lying aboutm non of your "arguments' hold any weight here.

If you apply your brain a little bit you'll realise that none of your opinions matter at all, because you'll never be able to prove the god that you lie about.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#152760 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
If you say so, it must be true?
How can you argue that any morality is superior if you do not accept that absolute morality exists?
Illogical.
:-)
Morality is relative, it requires no absoluteles. Especially absolutes conjured up by people who suffer from the mental illness of faith.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#152761 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
How can you state that any moral system is a failure, if you do not have a basis for defining morality?
Which you clearly do not...
YOur moral system fails because you choose to invent a god and make that your moral absolute.

The problem is that god isn't real and you're lying about it.

You've had since the beginning of time to put your morality where your mouth is, but time and time again, you guys continue to talk about a deity that simply does not exist.

That's why you're in a cult I suppose, you have problems with facing reality, probably afraid of the impermanence of life I think.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#152762 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
And to take your argument to its illogical conclusion, morality did not exist before humanism arose...
Humanists see humans and human ethics and ideals as an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change.

Humanists don't have values which are edicted on society, we see the best of society and give voice to what is. Humanists see that humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships.

Humanist see ethical values as being derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. We see that working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness and therefore life's fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#152763 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
As the truth of God is self evident, your question does not really make much sense...
But you still are missing the point.
How do you account for the idea of purpose and destiny in an atheistic universe.
You cannot.
The explanation is simple, you were created by God, with purpose, but due to the desire to suppress that knowledge of God, including His purpose for you, you have to deny His existance.
Then you are caught in the conundrum of accounting for the purpose you intrinsically know you have, without the originator of that purpose to help you define it.
So what happens then?
Nothing, you just keep claiming you have purpose but cannot account for it.
You cannot explain it, because the explanation is not something you are comfortable with...
You assume "purpose and destiny" without ever showing evidence for these concepts as anything more than your wishful thinking.

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#152764 Feb 10, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Obsess much? Ok gramps I noticed you have made several errors in your schizophrenic ramblings. First you say you were an atheist for 50 years until a mean topix atheist bashed Jesus and Paul. This upset you for some reason and lead you to understand god was real and had been hiding in your old work as an electrician. And you honestly expect us to believe this?
If this were true that a topix poster and fellow atheist made you convert to being a theist because he bashed Jesus and Paul then you sir are a very weak minded sheep. Even I don't believe you are that stupid Dave, you're just not. You are a liar though and a Christian hiding his faith.
Had you been a baker no doubt god would be yeast. Baal was an ancient middle eastern god and was often the god of the city. Several cities had Baal gods almost like a guard dog-gods so to speak. Your machine nonsense and ancients doing similar strings and magnets experiments for god is sadly a product of your imagination.
And your correct interpretation of the bible to smooth things out is typical of Christians, which you are as shown by you getting furious at Jesus and Paul being mocked.
<quoted text>
You have no credibility as a moral commentator, observer of nature, rational adult, or intellectual. But that doesn't stop you.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#152765 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
And to take your argument to its illogical conclusion, morality did not exist before humanism arose...
More correctly, morality didn't exist before *humans* arose. Humanism is simply the expression of the idea that morality is based in *human* wants and concerns. Even those in societies with different moral structures will rebel against certain types of abuse by tyrants, for example.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#152766 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
So humanism is the basis of morality.
So when slavery was morally acceptable, by society, it was ok?
According to your argument, it would be.
Isn't it interesting that even those who upheld slavery did not want to be slaves themselves? Even those who saw it as part of the 'natural order' of things dictated by God, didn't see it as something they wanted their children to experience directly?

No, this only shows the society to be hypocritical. Fairness is crucial to humanism: the same rules apply to everyone. Funny, even that principle goes back a long way.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#152767 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
How can you state that any moral system is a failure, if you do not have a basis for defining morality?
Which you clearly do not...
Of course we do: fairness and human happiness. Both come from the fact that we are a social species. No deity required.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#152768 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Laws of logic.
Are they material or immaterial?
They are ideas in our minds. As such, they are processes in the brain.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#152769 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the man that states a gust of wind blew on a handful of dirt and man magically appeared.
How would you define him?
Any invocation of magic as an explanation in the real world shows a disconnect to reality.

More specifically, the chemical properties of 'dirt' and 'wind' are not such that humans can be produced from them.
Imhotep

Miami, FL

#152770 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the man that states a gust of wind blew on a handful of dirt and man magically appeared.
How would you define him?
Delusional, Uneducated, or a another Magician...
It's been done before, and with beautiful women!
See most any magic show in Vegas except 'The Amazing Jonathan'

;)

http://www.lasvegas-nv.com/the-amazing-johnat...

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#152771 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
As the truth of God is self evident, your question does not really make much sense...
Except, of course, that many people don't see it as self-evident. That shows it isn't.
But you still are missing the point.
How do you account for the idea of purpose and destiny in an atheistic universe.
You cannot.
We choose our own purpose in life. Wow that was easy. You see, purpose is something each and every one of us gets to decide for ourselves It's a tremendous freedom, but one that many shy away from. Some people just don't like to take responsibility for their own decisions, so they create the idea of deities to make them feel better about themselves.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#152772 Feb 10, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
But your god in the old and New Testament advocates for slavery, are you saying he was immoral for that?
I got a hundred bucks that says he dodges and avoids questions :)
<quoted text>
First you have to define morality.

If you do not qualify your terms, how can anyone respond appropriately to them?

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#152773 Feb 10, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Any invocation of magic as an explanation in the real world shows a disconnect to reality.
More specifically, the chemical properties of 'dirt' and 'wind' are not such that humans can be produced from them.
Like virtual particles?

Singing sand.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#152774 Feb 10, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
As the truth of God is self evident, your question does not really make much sense...
But you still are missing the point.
How do you account for the idea of purpose and destiny in an atheistic universe.
You cannot.
The explanation is simple, you were created by God, with purpose, but due to the desire to suppress that knowledge of God, including His purpose for you, you have to deny His existance.
Then you are caught in the conundrum of accounting for the purpose you intrinsically know you have, without the originator of that purpose to help you define it.
So what happens then?
Nothing, you just keep claiming you have purpose but cannot account for it.
You cannot explain it, because the explanation is not something you are comfortable with...


Load of malarkey , not sure where the phrase came from.
But I know it when I see it.

We define our own purposes in life, some never find one.
Some do find one, but it doesn't have to be inspired by religion
or god. Our purpose first, is to survive. That is every animals purpose. People like you suppose there was some creator designed purpose to life, but none exists. Those who are believing this, are having their strings pulled by those who have hijacked their potential and using them for an agenda that is of someone Else's fabrication. Plain and simple, but some exist to serve and are easily led to the agendas of other men. But don't pretend the purpose is from god, because that's just a lie used as a motivator.

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