Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

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#152091
Feb 6, 2013
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
I did too, this one doesn't feel like me!
dw, i'm gonna change this one again.
Okay.

And just to top Catcher:

"In Xanadu did Kublai Khan
A stately Pleasure-Dome decree,
Where Alph, the sacred river ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea.

So twice five miles of fertile ground
With walls and towers was girdled ’round,
And there were gardens bright with sinuous rills,
Where blossomed many an incense-bearing tree;
And here were forests ancient as the hills,
Enfolding sunny spots of greenery.

But, oh! That deep, romantic chasm which slanted
Down the green hill, athwart a cedarn cover:
A savage place! As holy and enchanted
As e’er beneath the waning moon was haunted
By woman wailing for her Demon Lover!
And from this chasm with ceaseless turmoil seething,
As if this Earth in fast, thick pants were breathing,
A mighty fountain momently was forced,
Amid whose swift, half-intermitted burst
Huge fragments vaulted like rebounding hail,
Or chaffy grain beneath the thresher’s flail;
And ‘midst these dancing rocks at once and ever,
It flung up momently the sacred river!

Five miles meandering with ever a mazy motion,
Through wood and dale the sacred river ran,
Then reached the caverns measureless to man,
And sank in tumult to a lifeless ocean.
And ‘mid this tumult, Kublai heard from far
Ancestral voices prophesying war!

The shadow of the Dome of Pleasure
Floated midway on the waves,
Where was heard the mingled measure
From the fountain and the caves.
It was a miracle of rare device:
A sunny Pleasure-Dome with caves of ice!

A damsel with a dulcimer
In a vision once I saw:
It was an Abyssinian maid,
And on her dulcimer she played,
Singing of Mount Abora.

Could I revive within me
Her symphony and song,
To such deep delight ‘twould win me
That with music loud and long,
I would build that dome within the air!
That sunny dome, those caves of ice,
And all who heard should see them there,
And all should cry:“Beware! Beware!
His flashing eyes, his floating hair!
Weave a circle ’round him thrice,
And close your eyes in holy dread:
For he on honeydew hath fed,
And drunk the milk of Paradise!”

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#152092
Feb 6, 2013
 
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>I was told that about something else once...only it wasn't praying that I was told to do the right way :p
U mean folding a T-shirt? Or ironing a shirt? Now that requires some technique!:-p

blacklagoon

Boston, MA

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#152093
Feb 6, 2013
 

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Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
The statue was an idol. He prayed to the wrong thing.
You were given one body to work with. Make do with what you got.
Ahh..No one GAVE me a body. The process of evolution and some complex biology is the reason I have a body. And thanks for your concern, yes I do make every attempt to take care of my body.

“In the beginning God Created..”

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Southern Illinois

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#152094
Feb 6, 2013
 
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a complete fcking monster.
Thank you,:)

My favorite monster movie of all time was “Frankenstein.”

The 1931 version with Boris Karloff. Man that was one hell of a scary movie for a kid to watch. That was a time in which they knew how to make a good movie.

“The first appearance and unveiling of the Monster - bringing him into the light of enlightenment - is truly memorable. The door slowly swings open, revealing a dark, lumpish silhouette in the doorway in a full figure shot. The bulky figure lurches clumsily into the room with halting steps, gradually revealing a bulky head and broad back - the Monster awkwardly moves into the room by backing in! The hulking Monster then slowly turns around, and then provides a shadowy profile in our first chilling close-up look of his blankly expressionless, tabula rasa face - a jagged surgical scar around the jaw appears. There is also a prominent spike that gleams into view on the side of the figure's neck. A series of camera jump cuts provide increasingly tighter close-ups of the hideous visage of the cadaverous creature.”

“The Frankenstein Monster (Boris Karloff) is a startling, grotesque, and gruesome figure, about seven feet tall with broad shoulders. The creation is more Monster than man. The monstrous face is placid, gaunt and elongated. The creature has a square-shaped head with boxy forehead, hooded eyelids over deep-set sunken eyes, neck-spikes or bolts to serve as electrical connectors on his neck, jagged surgical scars, and a matted wig. The Monster wears a dark suit and thick, heavy boots, causing him to walk with an awkward, stiff-legged, crude gait. His long arms seem enormous because the coat sleeves are shortened.”

http://www.filmsite.org/fran3.html

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#152095
Feb 6, 2013
 

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Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
I AM RIGHT!:-p
Sorry, I was only joking about the flat world thing. I believe that must have some other meaning and is not relevant to any religion. Religion NEVER came to teach u science!
Yes, all the religions are pointing to the 1! Even the religions that don't talk of a God or gods, again the west is making stuff up!
Angel is not a good word, brahma, shiva and vishnu are not the angels, but indra could be called an angel, but still this is not the right word. it's a bit more complex than that.
India does have a caste system, like a class system, it has nothing to do with religion (OK, THAT'S A LIE, LOL), or God wanting it to be like that. It was created to make society better, people were given jobs depending on what they were good at, this was meant to be a good thing but it turned into something evil, over time!
The problem with the west is that it likes to jump to conclusions. It doesn't want to learn something new so they start making stuff up!
The problem is that people are uneducated and lazy, they do not want to learn or read their scriptures, they are like sheep, just coz mummy and daddy did it, i do it!
Nobody understands their religion, it's only a few of us and we are trying to keep it alive. We say that we are living in kalyug, the age of spiritual darkness, this is hell on earth, the hell may seem sweet to some of us but hell is hell! I don't know what will happen next, World War 3? God help us all!
I disagree. Science is exactly what any religion worth its salt teaches. Science is merely another word for knowledge, and a reliable method of coming to that knowledge. That is very much in line with religion, is it not? Knowledge of God's will, knowledge of the origin of things, knowledge of how the universe works, etc.

And I think you are using the word "West" from your point of view. Eastern and Western Europe have very different histories and world views, and both entirely different from Islam (also West of you.) Your country (assuming that is India) has experienced all three at different times, and in different ways. The West through Britain, the East through Marxism and the Soviet Union, and Islam, who invaded and attempted to wipe out your religion.

Ah, but angels are complex. Their powers are vast, and our theology suggests they were used as instruments by God to "sing" the universe into creation. Again, I think you lack real understanding of Christian theology. See Thomas Aquinas on his treatise on the angels for more details.

Yes, you may have a caste system now, but it may have been imposed by one of two things, or a little of both ... the British and Islam. In Asoka's time, it seemed to have been more refined, or simply a description of natural tendencies in society to specialize, but not forced upon society. Did not the arrival of Islam bring the Sati, because Hindu women would rather die then be subject to sexual slavery by Muslim husbands? Did not the British impose a rigid standard to better maintain control? Rome did the same thing, bringing what we call "feudalism" to Europe. Is it very different?

But the rest I agree with you. We Europeans are rightful accused of Eurocentrism and jumping to hasty conclusions. But again, THIS was imposed upon the West by the East, Eastern European philosophy, and some ideals that Martin Luther unleashed upon Europe unwittingly, who laid the path towards Marxism and other forms of socialism that goes completely against Western philosophy.

We are all victims of the imperialist ambitions of others, I'm afraid.

But if I may ask, does true Hinduism profess to be the one true religion, or does it claim to be one of many ways to the Singular God? Now you got me curious.:)

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#152096
Feb 6, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Okay.
And just to top Catcher:
"In Xanadu did Kublai Khan
A stately Pleasure-Dome decree,
Where Alph, the sacred river ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea.
..........And drunk the milk of Paradise!”
Wait a minute! That's all good and everything, but u didn't write it yourself, did Catcher write his one? Is he trying to be clever with me?

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#152097
Feb 6, 2013
 
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Science is merely another word for knowledge, and a reliable method of coming to that knowledge. That is very much in line with religion, is it not?
Not at all. Religion has no method, much less a reliable method, of determining whether or not its claims are true or false.

Scientific claims are tested and challenged. Religious claims are accepted without challenge.

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

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#152098
Feb 6, 2013
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
HEYYYYYYYYYYY, YOU.....! LMAO!
NO, NO, NO...I ain't that heavy, u need to start picking up weights, train harder, if i ever got into that situation, u better save me or else i'll come back and haunt u!!:-D
Oh, it's just a song.

I'm a very good swimmer and I will definitely save you.

One more stanza. All together now:

Broke the record under water
I thought she was doin' fine
I wasn't nervous until the service
That they held for Clementine

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

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#152099
Feb 6, 2013
 
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you,:)
My favorite monster movie of all time was “Frankenstein.”
The 1931 version with Boris Karloff. Man that was one hell of a scary movie for a kid to watch. That was a time in which they knew how to make a good movie.
“The first appearance and unveiling of the Monster - bringing him into the light of enlightenment - is truly memorable. The door slowly swings open, revealing a dark, lumpish silhouette in the doorway in a full figure shot. The bulky figure lurches clumsily into the room with halting steps, gradually revealing a bulky head and broad back - the Monster awkwardly moves into the room by backing in! The hulking Monster then slowly turns around, and then provides a shadowy profile in our first chilling close-up look of his blankly expressionless, tabula rasa face - a jagged surgical scar around the jaw appears. There is also a prominent spike that gleams into view on the side of the figure's neck. A series of camera jump cuts provide increasingly tighter close-ups of the hideous visage of the cadaverous creature.”
“The Frankenstein Monster (Boris Karloff) is a startling, grotesque, and gruesome figure, about seven feet tall with broad shoulders. The creation is more Monster than man. The monstrous face is placid, gaunt and elongated. The creature has a square-shaped head with boxy forehead, hooded eyelids over deep-set sunken eyes, neck-spikes or bolts to serve as electrical connectors on his neck, jagged surgical scars, and a matted wig. The Monster wears a dark suit and thick, heavy boots, causing him to walk with an awkward, stiff-legged, crude gait. His long arms seem enormous because the coat sleeves are shortened.”
http://www.filmsite.org/fran3.html
"Frankenstein" was not the monster.

Or perhaps he was.

Don't worry about it - it's a common misunderstanding.

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San Francisco, CA

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#152100
Feb 6, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Okay.
And just to top Catcher:
"In Xanadu did Kublai Khan
A stately Pleasure-Dome decree,
Where Alph, the sacred river ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea.
Few have reached this Coleridge level in literature.

OK:

The stag at eve had drunk his fill,
Where danced the moon on Monan's rill,
And deep his midnight lair had made
In lone Glenartney's hazel shade;
But when the sun his beacon red
Had kindled on Benvoirlich's head,
The deep-mouthed bloodhound's heavy bay
Resounded up the rocky way,
And faint, from farther distance borne,
Were heard the clanging hoof and horn.

As Chief, who hears his warder call,
'To arms! the foemen storm the wall,'
The antlered monarch of the waste
Sprung from his heathery couch in haste.
But ere his fleet career he took,
The dew-drops from his flanks he shook;
Like crested leader proud and high
Tossed his beamed frontlet to the sky;
A moment gazed adown the dale,
A moment snuffed the tainted gale,
A moment listened to the cry,
That thickened as the chase drew nigh;
Then, as the headmost foes appeared,
With one brave bound the copse he cleared,
And, stretching forward free and far,
Sought the wild heaths of Uam-Var.

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San Francisco, CA

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#152101
Feb 6, 2013
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait a minute! That's all good and everything, but u didn't write it yourself, did Catcher write his one? Is he trying to be clever with me?
No, I didn't write that beautiful poem about Clementine.

I think it was Shakespeare, or Milton, or one of those dudes.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

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#152102
Feb 6, 2013
 

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blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>So your god apparently loves the idea of human sacrifice, yes? He could see no other way for Israel to become a nation without the sacrifice of millions of men women and totally innocent children? This all powerful God of your who loves us dearly, a God that has no limits to what he can do, chose to sit idly by and watch millions of his prized creation perish in most horrible ways. REALLY??? I guess he just loves human sacrifice, what other possible reason could there be for him NOT find an alternative to the suffering, torture and death of millions of Jews.
Answered prayer eh......must we do the whole millions of amputees who's prayers were NEVER EVER answered?
Just a story, but kind of telling.......A man went everyday to pray for his sick wife. He went to a massive statue of Christ on the cross to pray. Everyday for a year he prayed, but his poor wife died anyway. After her death he asked the parish priest if he could clean the statue as it was neglected over the years. he was given permission and on his first day of cleaning the statue, it toppled over on him crushing him to death. He apparently lived for a few hours in horrible agony before he died. Yeah, I know....."Who ca know the mind of God"........God works in mysterious ways" Standard replies when all reason and logic fail.
It’s always a pleasure to talk to you my good Doctor.

The first mistake the troubled soul did was to bow down to a stone image. A violation of the ten commandments. The second mistake was trying to clean it.

Now my good Doctor why God let so many die in WWII is beyond me. These wars were the act of mad men and nations run amuck. The fact remains from this horrible cost a nation rises out of the ashes in 1948.

A nation because of it’s past, is determined to fight anyone who threatens it. Israel is not going away nor will it allow itself to be pushed into the sea. It is a legitimate nation and all her enemies need to get over it.

Exodus 20

King James Version (KJV)
20 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Leviticus 26

King James Version (KJV)
26 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.

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#152103
Feb 6, 2013
 
Eagle12 wrote:
My favorite monster movie of all time was “Frankenstein.”
Mine was "W" the story of George Bush.

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#152104
Feb 6, 2013
 
Catcher1 wrote:
No, I didn't write that beautiful poem about Clementine.I think it was Shakespeare, or Milton, or one of those dudes.
Not quite, try Woody Harris :p

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

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#152105
Feb 6, 2013
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all. Religion has no method, much less a reliable method, of determining whether or not its claims are true or false.
Scientific claims are tested and challenged. Religious claims are accepted without challenge.
Well, that might be true of other religions. Which is why I stated, a religion worth it's salt.

But that is not true of Christianity, which depends upon factual claims, not beliefs accepted without challenge.

Early Christianity was rigorously denounced and debated by the best atheists and intellectuals of their time. Not only did they fail, many converted and became saints and champions of the faith. And not for any great motive, either, for they all lost their wealth and power, and died as martyrs.

From that constant defense of Christianity over the century EMERGED the present scientific method. It is a direct result of it, refined over centuries, and perfected.

I myself am no a Christian by faith. I am one by being convinced of the events being true by rational arguments. But even the word "faith" means to persuaded by facts from the Greek language. The entire religion is based on persuasion. We do not say "we believe" in the modern sense, of belief without evidence. We use it in the ancient sense, as we believe because we know, and have been convinced.

Which is why anything is believed, is it not? Because we are persuaded by sound arguments, by evidence, by rational thought. Or, are we? I have found the non-religious to be the worst offenders, having no real arguments at all for much of their secular beliefs.

Be it so, Christianity cannot be divorced from science as matter of theology. Either Jesus was who he said He was, or he was vile, despicable liar.

“In the beginning God Created..”

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Southern Illinois

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#152106
Feb 6, 2013
 
Mylan wrote:
Claims that atheists have faith just like religious people is a fallacy of equivocation.
Atheist believe in the very beginning RNA and DNA self assembled into complex organism. From that self assembly all life spawned into what it is today.

For RNA and DNA to self assemble would be the equivalent of fine sports car like the Porsche 911 Carrera 4 GTS building itself.

Atheist believe this without any scientific proof complex life forms can derive out of sterile lifeless material and self construct. That my friend takes a hell of a lot of faith.


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#152107
Feb 6, 2013
 
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>Not quite, try Woody Harris :p
Yeah, I know, with Bobby Darin.

Dude, can't you see I'm trying to impress Clementine?

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#152108
Feb 6, 2013
 
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree. Science is exactly what any religion worth its salt teaches. Science is merely another word for knowledge, and a reliable method of coming to that knowledge. That is very much in line with religion, is it not? Knowledge of God's will, knowledge of the origin of things, knowledge of how the universe works, etc.
An..........imperialist ambitions of others, I'm afraid.
But if I may ask, does true Hinduism profess to be the one true religion, or does it claim to be one of many ways to the Singular God? Now you got me curious.:)
I don't agree that religion came to teach us about the material world, we have eyes and ears to do that ourselves.

No, true Hinduism believes that spirituality is the only way to understanding and then becoming one with the 1. We do not believe this is a competition between religions, u can follow different rituals, but your path and goal must be the same, there is only 1 way to God, that's it! Try to do good and try not to do bad. We call it dharma, anyone who follows dharma, they can be from any religion, but they are the only ones who will obtain God. this is a passage from the sikh scriptures, it might help u understand;

Of all religions, the best religion is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct. Of all religious rituals, the most sublime ritual is to erase the filth of the dirty mind in the Company of the Holy. Of all efforts, the best effort is to chant the Name of the Lord in the heart, forever. Of all speech, the most ambrosial speech is to hear the Lord's Praise and chant it with the tongue. Of all places, the most sublime place, O Nanak, is that heart in which the Name of the Lord abides.||8||3||(Ang 266)

chanting the name of God is not just saying his name over and over again, it has a deep meaning. His name is truth!

Our religions respect other people's belief. We think we are all the chosen people, the human species as a whole, their is no special race or religion, but i know u think different from us.

No, the scriptures talk about the cast system, it's very old, near the time of Krishna, so about 4000 or 5000 years? maybe..i'm guessing now.

I understand what u r trying to say about angels but that is christian philosophy not ours. Shiva is not an angel, he is more like a characteristic of God.

Let me tell u this...Islam/British empire destroyed India in every way! It did no good, NEVER!

No, sati has something to do with Shiva and all that sh*t, it got nothing to do with Islam. After the Husband died, greedy family did not want to give anything to the wife, so they had her burnt alive! It was a way of controlling women. It's too deep to go into.
Turkey

Oswego, NY

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#152109
Feb 6, 2013
 
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Carrion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =r4yWcFsItN0XX
You're very astute. Maybe someday I could paint for you with my deft brush.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#152110
Feb 6, 2013
 
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_shape.h...
“We now know (as of 2013) that the universe is flat with only a 0.4% margin of error. This suggests that the Universe is infinite in extent; however, since the Universe has a finite age, we can only observe a finite volume of the Universe. All we can truly conclude is that the Universe is much larger than the volume we can directly observe.”
Not a paradox, Einstein’s formulas predict it, objects change in position relative to the space-time grid. The speed of light is a constraint for objects that exist within space-time, not for space-time itself.
So not paradoxical
The other is related and can be calculated by the Hubble constant at around 71MPS. The expansion of the universe predicts that objects over 4200MPS away will be moving faster than the speed of light.
Again not paradoxical
As I have shown you by offering the definition that a paradox is self contradictory statement. And therefore I will repeat, just because the beginning of the universe is not understood does not make it self contradictory, it just means it’s not understood (yet).
As to the uncertainty principal, Schroeder's cat, one theoretical, the other an example to explain the uncertainty principal on the quantum level. And why is the higgs field a paradox? Elusive, true, paradoxical, nope it has been predicted for years
Then we agree to disagree, that's ok though because most all cosmologists and theoretical physicists do.
Never in history have all of them agreed on anything.lol

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