Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#152102 Feb 6, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>So your god apparently loves the idea of human sacrifice, yes? He could see no other way for Israel to become a nation without the sacrifice of millions of men women and totally innocent children? This all powerful God of your who loves us dearly, a God that has no limits to what he can do, chose to sit idly by and watch millions of his prized creation perish in most horrible ways. REALLY??? I guess he just loves human sacrifice, what other possible reason could there be for him NOT find an alternative to the suffering, torture and death of millions of Jews.
Answered prayer eh......must we do the whole millions of amputees who's prayers were NEVER EVER answered?
Just a story, but kind of telling.......A man went everyday to pray for his sick wife. He went to a massive statue of Christ on the cross to pray. Everyday for a year he prayed, but his poor wife died anyway. After her death he asked the parish priest if he could clean the statue as it was neglected over the years. he was given permission and on his first day of cleaning the statue, it toppled over on him crushing him to death. He apparently lived for a few hours in horrible agony before he died. Yeah, I know....."Who ca know the mind of God"........God works in mysterious ways" Standard replies when all reason and logic fail.
Itís always a pleasure to talk to you my good Doctor.

The first mistake the troubled soul did was to bow down to a stone image. A violation of the ten commandments. The second mistake was trying to clean it.

Now my good Doctor why God let so many die in WWII is beyond me. These wars were the act of mad men and nations run amuck. The fact remains from this horrible cost a nation rises out of the ashes in 1948.

A nation because of itís past, is determined to fight anyone who threatens it. Israel is not going away nor will it allow itself to be pushed into the sea. It is a legitimate nation and all her enemies need to get over it.

Exodus 20

King James Version (KJV)
20 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Leviticus 26

King James Version (KJV)
26 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#152103 Feb 6, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
My favorite monster movie of all time was ďFrankenstein.Ē
Mine was "W" the story of George Bush.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#152104 Feb 6, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
No, I didn't write that beautiful poem about Clementine.I think it was Shakespeare, or Milton, or one of those dudes.
Not quite, try Woody Harris :p

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#152105 Feb 6, 2013
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all. Religion has no method, much less a reliable method, of determining whether or not its claims are true or false.
Scientific claims are tested and challenged. Religious claims are accepted without challenge.
Well, that might be true of other religions. Which is why I stated, a religion worth it's salt.

But that is not true of Christianity, which depends upon factual claims, not beliefs accepted without challenge.

Early Christianity was rigorously denounced and debated by the best atheists and intellectuals of their time. Not only did they fail, many converted and became saints and champions of the faith. And not for any great motive, either, for they all lost their wealth and power, and died as martyrs.

From that constant defense of Christianity over the century EMERGED the present scientific method. It is a direct result of it, refined over centuries, and perfected.

I myself am no a Christian by faith. I am one by being convinced of the events being true by rational arguments. But even the word "faith" means to persuaded by facts from the Greek language. The entire religion is based on persuasion. We do not say "we believe" in the modern sense, of belief without evidence. We use it in the ancient sense, as we believe because we know, and have been convinced.

Which is why anything is believed, is it not? Because we are persuaded by sound arguments, by evidence, by rational thought. Or, are we? I have found the non-religious to be the worst offenders, having no real arguments at all for much of their secular beliefs.

Be it so, Christianity cannot be divorced from science as matter of theology. Either Jesus was who he said He was, or he was vile, despicable liar.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#152106 Feb 6, 2013
Mylan wrote:
Claims that atheists have faith just like religious people is a fallacy of equivocation.
Atheist believe in the very beginning RNA and DNA self assembled into complex organism. From that self assembly all life spawned into what it is today.

For RNA and DNA to self assemble would be the equivalent of fine sports car like the Porsche 911 Carrera 4 GTS building itself.

Atheist believe this without any scientific proof complex life forms can derive out of sterile lifeless material and self construct. That my friend takes a hell of a lot of faith.


Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#152107 Feb 6, 2013
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>Not quite, try Woody Harris :p
Yeah, I know, with Bobby Darin.

Dude, can't you see I'm trying to impress Clementine?

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#152108 Feb 6, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree. Science is exactly what any religion worth its salt teaches. Science is merely another word for knowledge, and a reliable method of coming to that knowledge. That is very much in line with religion, is it not? Knowledge of God's will, knowledge of the origin of things, knowledge of how the universe works, etc.
An..........imperialist ambitions of others, I'm afraid.
But if I may ask, does true Hinduism profess to be the one true religion, or does it claim to be one of many ways to the Singular God? Now you got me curious.:)
I don't agree that religion came to teach us about the material world, we have eyes and ears to do that ourselves.

No, true Hinduism believes that spirituality is the only way to understanding and then becoming one with the 1. We do not believe this is a competition between religions, u can follow different rituals, but your path and goal must be the same, there is only 1 way to God, that's it! Try to do good and try not to do bad. We call it dharma, anyone who follows dharma, they can be from any religion, but they are the only ones who will obtain God. this is a passage from the sikh scriptures, it might help u understand;

Of all religions, the best religion is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct. Of all religious rituals, the most sublime ritual is to erase the filth of the dirty mind in the Company of the Holy. Of all efforts, the best effort is to chant the Name of the Lord in the heart, forever. Of all speech, the most ambrosial speech is to hear the Lord's Praise and chant it with the tongue. Of all places, the most sublime place, O Nanak, is that heart in which the Name of the Lord abides.||8||3||(Ang 266)

chanting the name of God is not just saying his name over and over again, it has a deep meaning. His name is truth!

Our religions respect other people's belief. We think we are all the chosen people, the human species as a whole, their is no special race or religion, but i know u think different from us.

No, the scriptures talk about the cast system, it's very old, near the time of Krishna, so about 4000 or 5000 years? maybe..i'm guessing now.

I understand what u r trying to say about angels but that is christian philosophy not ours. Shiva is not an angel, he is more like a characteristic of God.

Let me tell u this...Islam/British empire destroyed India in every way! It did no good, NEVER!

No, sati has something to do with Shiva and all that sh*t, it got nothing to do with Islam. After the Husband died, greedy family did not want to give anything to the wife, so they had her burnt alive! It was a way of controlling women. It's too deep to go into.
Turkey

Oswego, NY

#152109 Feb 6, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Carrion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =r4yWcFsItN0XX
You're very astute. Maybe someday I could paint for you with my deft brush.

“Nothing can stop, This Pony..”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#152110 Feb 6, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_shape.h...
ďWe now know (as of 2013) that the universe is flat with only a 0.4% margin of error. This suggests that the Universe is infinite in extent; however, since the Universe has a finite age, we can only observe a finite volume of the Universe. All we can truly conclude is that the Universe is much larger than the volume we can directly observe.Ē
Not a paradox, Einsteinís formulas predict it, objects change in position relative to the space-time grid. The speed of light is a constraint for objects that exist within space-time, not for space-time itself.
So not paradoxical
The other is related and can be calculated by the Hubble constant at around 71MPS. The expansion of the universe predicts that objects over 4200MPS away will be moving faster than the speed of light.
Again not paradoxical
As I have shown you by offering the definition that a paradox is self contradictory statement. And therefore I will repeat, just because the beginning of the universe is not understood does not make it self contradictory, it just means itís not understood (yet).
As to the uncertainty principal, Schroeder's cat, one theoretical, the other an example to explain the uncertainty principal on the quantum level. And why is the higgs field a paradox? Elusive, true, paradoxical, nope it has been predicted for years
Then we agree to disagree, that's ok though because most all cosmologists and theoretical physicists do.
Never in history have all of them agreed on anything.lol

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#152111 Feb 6, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheist believe in the very beginning RNA and DNA self assembled into complex organism. From that self assembly all life spawned into what it is today.
For RNA and DNA to self assemble would be the equivalent of fine sports car like the Porsche 911 Carrera 4 GTS building itself.
Atheist believe this without any scientific proof complex life forms can derive out of sterile lifeless material and self construct. That my friend takes a hell of a lot of faith.
If you think this is bad, you should see how they then contradict themselves in sociology by suggesting that all-powerful states can better run our lives than the evolution of society can.

:)

They only believe in evolution when it suits their cause. But when it goes against their secular humanism, as it actual does, then their tune changes.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#152112 Feb 6, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
But that is not true of Christianity, which depends upon factual claims, not beliefs accepted without challenge.
It's completely true of Christianity. Every important aspect of Christianity is taken purely on faith, in SPITE of facts.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Early Christianity was rigorously denounced and debated by the best atheists and intellectuals of their time. Not only did they fail, many converted and became saints and champions of the faith.
Oh, please. What intellectual arguments did they make to convert these "atheists"?
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
From that constant defense of Christianity over the century EMERGED the present scientific method. It is a direct result of it, refined over centuries, and perfected.
Tell me what aspects of Christianity were subjected to the scientific method.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Which is why anything is believed, is it not? Because we are persuaded by sound arguments, by evidence, by rational thought.
Christians reject the evidence and rational thought in favor of faith.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Be it so, Christianity cannot be divorced from science as matter of theology. Either Jesus was who he said He was, or he was vile, despicable liar.
Or he was a little crazy. Or the Gospels are not accurate portrayals of what Jesus said. Or the Gospels are largely legendary. Or the Gospels are mythological.

Every one of these things is far more likely that Jesus being a god.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#152113 Feb 6, 2013
Mylan wrote:
<quoted text>Mine was "W" the story of George Bush.
Well perhaps there were others that could have done a better job but they werenít voted in by the people.

I know people hated our former president. He was not without mistakes. I donít think his administration authorized selling automatic assault weapons to the Mexican Drug Cartels.

Nor did his administration claim a terrorist action on 911 was over a protest of someoneís book.

He did take us back into Iraq and perhaps we shouldnít have gone there. A big mistake because Saddam sort of was a deterrent to Iran. They didnít seem to get along. Saddam was an idiot and didnít help his cause pretending to have weapons of mass destruction.

But I give credit to our current President. He did get Bin Laden and he has done a good job of exterminating these terrorist when he can find them. But he failed to protect our ambassador in Libya.

Anyway you donít have to worry about President Bush.

“Nothing can stop, This Pony..”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#152114 Feb 6, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Amusing, the illusion you have thinking you have a grasp on the reality of it all.
Numbers are not a substitute for a deity or other higher level of existence. They are inventions of man. You just have no idea how contrived that theoretical physics of yours is.
The number of the Beast is that of a man.
Numbers just can't quantify all that there is, so you can never really get the grasp of it all.
But you are still cute. <Smooch>
You actually could be closer to the truth than ever before, minus the beast crap. But the paradox is there , like it (believe it)...or not.
Turkey

Oswego, NY

#152115 Feb 6, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Forget it. They don't take food stamps.
You have great schtick.

“Nothing can stop, This Pony..”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#152116 Feb 6, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, look who is still on Topix with nothing better to do. I go looking around too see what is new after several months, and low and behold is the same, old, tired atheist on the prowl, with the usual disconnect to history and the facts.
Yes, it is hard on Americans, to watch secularization, now unchecked and running rampent for at least 150 years, transform all of the West into pathetic nations of girly men and poor intellects.
But, alas, this is the pattern of all civilizations. Secularization of Rome and Greece were disasters as well, leaving Jews and Christians to rebuild civilization, yet again.
Nothing to worry about. We have survived your kind before, and will survive you for many centuries to come. Atheism cannot hold back real progress and science, or the Jews and Christians that brought it.
What mystifies me is how you lie on Topix with allegedly a straight face, having once admitted that it serves the secular movement well to pretend that science did not emerge from us, but from secular thought.
Do you still promote that lie?
Magnetic string theory?

http://news.discovery.com/space/on-the-trail-...
Turkey

Oswego, NY

#152117 Feb 6, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for sharing your myth.
Myth enthusiasts will find this magical site a 'wonder to behold'.
http://www.godchecker.com/
Mythology Encyclopedia features over 3,700 weird and wonderful Supreme Beings, Demons, Spirits and Fabulous Beasts from all over the world.
Explore ancient legends and folklore, and discover Gods of everything from Fertility to Fluff!
;)
There is a "most high God" who will be known. All in good time my jackass.

“Nothing can stop, This Pony..”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#152118 Feb 6, 2013
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
I did too, this one doesn't feel like me!
dw, i'm gonna change this one again.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#152119 Feb 6, 2013
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't agree that religion came to teach us about the material world, we have eyes and ears to do that ourselves.
No, true Hinduism believes that spirituality is the only way to understanding and then becoming one with the 1. We do not believe this is a competition between religions, u can follow different rituals, but your path and goal must be the same, there is only 1 way to God, that's it! Try to do good and try not to do bad. We call it dharma, anyone who follows dharma, they can be from any religion, but they are the only ones who will obtain God. this is a passage from the sikh scriptures, it might help u understand;
Of all religions, the best religion is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct. Of all religious rituals, the most sublime ritual is to erase the filth of the dirty mind in the Company of the Holy. Of all efforts, the best effort is to chant the Name of the Lord in the heart, forever. Of all speech, the most ambrosial speech is to hear the Lord's Praise and chant it with the tongue. Of all places, the most sublime place, O Nanak, is that heart in which the Name of the Lord abides.||8||3||(Ang 266)
chanting the name of God is not just saying his name over and over again, it has a deep meaning. His name is truth!
Our religions respect other people's belief. We think we are all the chosen people, the human species as a whole, their is no special race or religion, but i know u think different from us.
No, the scriptures talk about the cast system, it's very old, near the time of Krishna, so about 4000 or 5000 years? maybe..i'm guessing now.
I understand what u r trying to say about angels but that is christian philosophy not ours. Shiva is not an angel, he is more like a characteristic of God.
Let me tell u this...Islam/British empire destroyed India in every way! It did no good, NEVER!
No, sati has something to do with Shiva and all that sh*t, it got nothing to do with Islam. After the Husband died, greedy family did not want to give anything to the wife, so they had her burnt alive! It was a way of controlling women. It's too deep to go into.
Mm,

Well, your Hindu culture is rather large and diversified, the bit about the Sati was a Hindu claim from someone else, but I don't remember the details.

In one way, you actual describe what Judaism, or the Israelites believed before Christ. That all people had to life rightly to and follow the conscience. Or as we say, God's laws are written on our hearts, so even the pre-Christian had only one way to God, exactly as you stated. That was the universal way.

But that changed with Jesus in our faith, now He is the only way, because the old way was not working, and mankind was sinning to much for the way you described to work. So He came up with a new plan, His Church. Does this not differ from your religion, that God came to us to save us, that God paved the way to heaven?

You stated this: "Our religions respect other people's belief. We think we are all the chosen people, the human species as a whole, their is no special race or religion, but i know u think different from us."

That my friend is very offensive, we do not think any differently at all. Race has never played a role in Christianity, but many, like some British, perverted it to be racial. We also respect all cultures, and do not destroy them as the Muslims do. Armenia to this day still practices old pagan rituals with the understanding that it is cultural, not religious now. Halloween is pagan, but still practiced in respect to the old ways.

And I know Catholics in India adapt many Hindu beliefs and culture as well, bringing the new way to God, while retaining the wonderful cultures of all peoples and races.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#152120 Feb 6, 2013
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
It's completely true of Christianity. Every important aspect of Christianity is taken purely on faith, in SPITE of facts.
<quoted text>
Oh, please. What intellectual arguments did they make to convert these "atheists"?
<quoted text>
Tell me what aspects of Christianity were subjected to the scientific method.
<quoted text>
Christians reject the evidence and rational thought in favor of faith.
<quoted text>
Or he was a little crazy. Or the Gospels are not accurate portrayals of what Jesus said. Or the Gospels are largely legendary. Or the Gospels are mythological.
Every one of these things is far more likely that Jesus being a god.
I just described in detail why you are wrong on this count, and you just repeat the same thing.

Christianity is worthless without science and rational thought. Period. If that is news to you, it is because you never understood it to begin with, or have too much assumptions to change your mind at this point.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#152121 Feb 6, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheist believe in the very beginning RNA and DNA self assembled into complex organism. From that self assembly all life spawned into what it is today.
For RNA and DNA to self assemble would be the equivalent of fine sports car like the Porsche 911 Carrera 4 GTS building itself.
Atheist believe this without any scientific proof complex life forms can derive out of sterile lifeless material and self construct. That my friend takes a hell of a lot of faith.
I dunno if your term "believe" is quite accurate.

But we're getting closer, eh?
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharps...

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