Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Jan 13

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#150968 Jan 30, 2013
EmpAtheist wrote:
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I'm not defending the atheists because i see it in us too... but I hope you are not so blind as to not see Christians being guilty of this on here as well!
Its like watching a bunch of angry kids playing king of the hill... remember that game?
I agree.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#150969 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
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You wouldn't be arguing causality there would you?
Nope.
You deny causality is required for the start of the universe, but then mention induction.
Induction relies on causality...
other way around. The conclusion of causality is based on induction from observations. Not all observations support this conclusion.
But as you have denied causality as absolute, how do you now account for induction?
Induction is imperfect, but is the only way we have of coming up with hypotheses which can then be tested. It is the testability that is crucial.

Since: Jan 13

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#150970 Jan 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
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No it's not. As long as you don't affirm or deny the possibility of a god or gods, you are agnostic. Agnostics like me do deny "God."
Who can say that no god of any description is possible unless the idea is logically impossible? I can't.
However unlikely, the idea of a god isn't logically impossible, therefore it is possible by default. It seems to me that we must all admit to a mustard seed of agnosticism.
But many named gods can be ruled out such as the one you call "God" ... Jehovah-Jesus. Doing so, however, doesn't make one no longer agnostic. It can't.
Why aren't you asking us what we believe and what we call ourselves rather than telling us? You need to understand what the terms mean to unbelievers, and how we use them, unless it is your intention to try to impose a preferred definition upon us.
If you are, I would suggest you think it through. There's only one outcome that I've ever seen come to pass whenever that happens.
Why is it, do you think, that you need to rule out the particular God?

Have you ever wondered why atheists display so much tension around the Christian God?

Since: Jan 13

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#150971 Jan 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
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To whom? To the universe? None.
To me and those that love me? What does it say about you that you don't know what purpose we serve, or even whether we experience a sense of purpose? I love many chemical accidents, and they love me.
Why do you want to demean humanity with such descriptions? Sure, it is technically correct, but it is horribly incomplete. Why do you distill the worst definition you can from the whole. We are so much more than that.
This chemical accident also has a sense of dignity, purpose, and self-worth. This chemical accident also has hopes and dreams for the future of mankind and the world.
Your worldview not only has impeded progress in the human condition, it cheapens the human experience. You should be proud of what you are, not all of which is an accident - just your biology. You are the abstract thinking ape, the one that uses language and numbers to contemplate, compute, communicate, measure and record. With a little practice, you can play a piano or guitar.
Do you still not understand where purpose, meaning and value come from? Not the belief in a god, nor in the belief that you were built to serve one. If anything, such a belief demeans you and perverts your sense of purpose.
You still have failed to account for purpose.

Please understand the point and respond to the point itself...

Since: Jan 13

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#150972 Jan 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
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I didn't say that you were required to break any law, only that you were free to.
I also said that with such cheap forgiveness on demand available to you, you are free to lie all you want, especially when proselytizing. Lying for Jesus is OK, right? Christians overrate their religious experience to others every weeks in church, telling them about the victory, and the overwhelming joy in their hearts. Nobody asks for forgiveness for doing that.
And you are bound by nothing. Faith is a choice. You submit to Christianity by choice.
I am not free to break Gods Law. Lying is not permitted by the way...

That is the whole point of the gospel...

And laying down your life for someone you love, you consider "cheap"?

Since: Jan 13

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#150973 Jan 30, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Professing that we are just glorified circuitry being put to use by a higher form of life is based upon a 2000 year old National Enquirer?
Yeah, I can see a Topix atheist believing such. They all know we just got poofed here. They are "real" thingies that arose from maybe a fog. Or maybe a particle. Maybe even a different dimension. Maybe a bunch of numbers had a party and created us. Maybe even we emerged out of total nothingness. But those atheist, they be real. And in the know.
Lots of maybes to draw an absolute from...

Since: Jan 13

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#150974 Jan 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
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Is your god an absolute?
If so, I'm guessing that you're giving it a pass on any demand that it have a cause. I'm guessing that you're going from strict and rigorous regarding the universe, to anything goes for the god. Am I close?
God is the First Cause, that is without cause.

He is self attesting, which the First Cause would have to be...

Since: Dec 11

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#150975 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
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God, who is self attesting, and also the absolute standard of morality, has revealed it in the scripture.
Then why do so many people find the Bible to be morally appalling?

Since: Jan 13

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#150976 Jan 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
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If all that you have as evidence is many people agreeing, that is evidence for many people agreeing, not a god. There is also evidence of many people "sinning." Is that then an absolute moral standard and evidence for a god as well? It isn't, is it?
<quoted text>
That's a bare claim, not evidence.
It is not about evidence, it is about authority.

People do not reject God because of lack of evidence, they reject Him because they do not want to submit to His authority.

Since: Dec 11

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#150977 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
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Have you ever wondered why atheists display so much tension around the Christian God?
This has been explained numerous times. Skeptics primarily combat the superstition relevant to their social environment.

In the United States, that superstition is Christianity. If Hindus begin to gain power in the US and want laws catered to their religion, we skeptics will point out the lack of evidence for their beliefs as well.

Christianity isn't special; it's just prominent.

Since: Jan 13

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#150978 Jan 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
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That is incorrect. Read it again. We are not discussing universals. We are discussing parts and wholes.
Can you not think of things are true about humanity, but not true about individual human beings? Can a single human being reproduce, or survive for millennia?
How about things that are true about a deck of playing cards, but not true about one card? Can you shuffle or cut one card?
And if you care to rebut a comment, do so. A simple claim to the contrary is merely an opinion, not an argument.
All self attesting facts point to the self attesting God.

That conclusion cannot be escaped...

That you have to deny those facts, in order to deny God, proves the point...

Since: Jan 13

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#150980 Jan 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
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< crickets >
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Are you going to be dead weight in this discussion? I don't intend to drag you through it. Where did I claim sole proprietorship of rational skepticism?
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OK. I wouldn't.
But why tell me here and now? Did you think that your comment somehow related to mine?
Skepticism is illogical without deductive and inductive logic upon which to base it, I am not sure why you would deny that?

You will be denying your own existence next...

Since: Jan 13

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#150981 Jan 30, 2013
Pat wrote:
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"In that case, how do you account for absolute morality?
God has supplied that.."
Proof of gods absolute morality - a bind retarded little girl with deformed limbs.
So was Mr. Morality unwilling or unable to prevent such terrible and unjust suffering? How do you account for being so stupid? Me thinks Mr. Morality loves stupid.
Confucius say you have very small noodle and no like to use it!
Stop sidestepping the question.

If you cannot account for morality, then admit it.

If you can, then account for it.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#150982 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
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Are you omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and eternal?
Because you would need to be that, just to be equal with God.
How you will improve on that I don't know...

I never said I was the god of your monotheistic religion who you imagine is the creator god.
But I could fit some the definitions of god.

Particularly
5. A very handsome man.

Even this,

4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed:

and

6. A powerful ruler or despot.

But especially with you in mind.

A man who has qualities regarded as making him superior to other men.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/god

Since: Jan 13

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#150983 Jan 30, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
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Nope.
Causality is an induction - a conclusion drawn through induction by observing a constant correlation between prior events or conditions called causes, and subsequent ones call their effects.
Causality refers to relationships in the material world: This billiard ball caused that one to move.
Inductions are abstractions derived from observing collections of events and identifying their common or recurring qualities: billiard balls can cause inelastic collisions.
Observing collections of events, is observing causality...

An event by its nature is causal.

Since: Apr 09

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#150984 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
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Why is it, do you think, that you need to rule out the particular God?
Have you ever wondered why atheists display so much tension around the Christian God?
Have you ever wondered why Christians claim their god is the only god without a single shred of proof?

Since: Apr 09

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#150985 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
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God is the First Cause, that is without cause.
He is self attesting, which the First Cause would have to be...
Prove it.

Since: Apr 09

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#150986 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
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It is not about evidence, it is about authority.
People do not reject God because of lack of evidence, they reject Him because they do not want to submit to His authority.
They reject your god because he's imaginary.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#150987 Jan 30, 2013
mtimber wrote:
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God is the First Cause, that is without cause.
He is self attesting, which the First Cause would have to be...
So you think you can exempt your god from your own assertions? Doesn't work like that. If everything needs to be created, then so does your god, that means your god has to have a god as well.

Since: Sep 08

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#150988 Jan 30, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
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Dude, religion is merely a form of superstition.
Supernatural is supernatural.
You worship a god, some other guy doesn't travel on a Tuesday.
Hey IANS, this reminds me of another saying. Don't cheat:
El martes, ni te cases ni te embarques.
Dude, the Romans used to regard Christians as superstitious, and mocked them much as you and others do now. Was reason enough to them to use them for their sadistic entertainment.

You are a threat to humanity.

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