Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#149694
Jan 24, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Arbitrary appeal to your own authority.
Do you have a rational argument to present?

That was exactly the point nimrod, you do not have a rational basis based on evidence in your argument. Hubble's law the cosmic background radiation, the position of galaxies in the past support
the BBT. The fact it is a paradox is not evidence it needed a uncaused causer of causes , or even that causality applies.
Thinking

Huntingdon, UK

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#149695
Jan 24, 2013
 
The passion of the christ was just a load of Mel Gibson shite.

Did you realise that the princess shagged in Braveheart was a real person? But she would've been 4 years old at the time. Mel Gibson made Braveheart a paedophile.

The crucifixion was probably just a sex game that went wrong.
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>Judas knew the strength that JESUS had, he had witnessed it himself on many occasions, and Judas knew that JESUS could defend Himself. It didn't turn out that way at all.....
And Judas took his own life .... and if I had witnessed what was going on back then, I probably would have to. I had to watch "The Passion of the Christ" with no volume, and it was a huge shock to see what they actually did to Him. But, in Sunday School, we coloured in little driplets of blood running from short thorns, just scraping His flesh, and although we knew about the sword in the side, actually watching it on the screen was horrific.
Thank GOD we have moved on from those days, although of course, there are circumstances that actually have not moved on at all.
Thinking

Huntingdon, UK

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#149696
Jan 24, 2013
 
Why?
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Arbitrary appeal to your own authority.
Do you have anything rational to present?
Pat

Granby, CT

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#149697
Jan 24, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
That is not the argument you made.
You made the argument that if you cannot comprehend something, it cannot exist.
You cannot comprehend abiogenesis, therefore abiogenesis does not exist.
Do you retract that argument?
To grow as a person, you need to be able to admit it when you do not understand something.
Well, it's obvious why you are a theist. God is just your substitute for a malfunctioning brain.

I can comprehend abiogenesis. That does not mean I possess the knowledge to perfectly describe it. I can also use your same flawed logic against you. You can not comprehend god, or what it is does or wants since there is no knowledge of any gods, therefore god does not exist according to you.
Pat

Granby, CT

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#149698
Jan 24, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Arbitrary appeal to your own authority.
Do you have anything rational to present?
No, that was a factually correct remark. All arguments for god are arguments from ignorance for they are based not upon what you know (knowledge) but rather upon what you don't know (your ignorance).

Life is too complex, there must be a god = argument from ignorance.
Life must have a purpose therefore there must be a god = argument from ignorance.
Life could not have created itself = argument from ignorance.

All arguments for god are arguments from ignorance. God = your ignorance, nothing more.
Thinking

Huntingdon, UK

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#149699
Jan 24, 2013
 
7 posts in a row gets you a "Cuntard of the Day" award.
Way to go cuntard!
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
So how do you account for the concept that many have that there was state where there was no time?
Your reduction to absurdity is incredible to watch...
Pat

Granby, CT

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#149700
Jan 24, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
I have been presenting evidence, but your fanatical goggles have not allowed you to see the evidence, let alone discuss and critique it...
You have no evidence for god. You are a liar. God is still linked to the word faith and you know it so you can stop lying now.

Atheists and theists do not argue over the merits of believing in aliens on Pluto, or leprechauns. We rarely dispute what is or is not valid evidence for something outside the scope of religion (death denial). Theists prove every day that they can and do use normal reasoning. They can even serve on juries! It is ONLY in matters that conflict with the theists cherished death denial mythology that these disagreements arise. This clearly proves the hypocrisy and dishonesty of the theist, attempting to protect their cherished beliefs.
Pat

Granby, CT

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#149701
Jan 24, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know if a line is curvy?
I like to wear socks.
Pat

Granby, CT

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#149702
Jan 24, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Not so, atheists look at a rock and see abiogenesis...
If you were not so insecure about your blind faith you would have no desire to project your stupid onto the atheist like this. All you can honestly say about every atheist is that they lack belief in god, that's it. Deep down you know you are living a lie and the atheist reminds you of that and you don't like it one bit.
Pat

Granby, CT

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#149703
Jan 24, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, if you want to hide behind it so God can't see you.
Just like Adam and Eve in the Garden.
Man still attempts that foolishness to this day.
Except these days, it is no longer a bush, but a rock.
Adam and Eve? Give me a break! So what was the original sin, eating from the tree of knowledge or the planting of the tree there in the first place? Creating morally challenged imperfect humans only to deliberately tempt them so you can then punish the imperfect objects of your own creation is both evil, and sadistic.

Is there an intelligent man or woman now in the world who believes in the Garden of Eden story? If you find any man who believes it, strike his forehead and you will hear an echo. Something is for rent. Robert Green Ingersoll, "Orthodoxy" (1884)

The inspiration of the Bible depends upon the ignorance of the gentleman who reads it. Robert Green Ingersoll, speech (1881),
Pat

Granby, CT

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#149704
Jan 24, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a philosophical argument.
You don't accept philosophy as a valid practice.
So you won't understand the argument anyway...
The inner defenses are unconscious. They consist of a kind of magic aura which the mind builds around cherished belief. Arguments which penetrate into the magic aura are not dealt with rationally but by a specific type of pseudo-reasoning. Absurdities and contradictions are made acceptable by specious rationalizations.-- Arthur Koestler

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

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#149705
Jan 24, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
That was exactly the point nimrod, you do not have a rational basis based on evidence in your argument. Hubble's law the cosmic background radiation, the position of galaxies in the past support
the BBT. The fact it is a paradox is not evidence it needed a uncaused causer of causes , or even that causality applies.
The BBT is not paradoxical, certainly not now that the mathematics has been developed that can rationalise the infinities as the atomic universe nears zero and (from the other side) the quantum universe nears zero. In the new mathematics these infinities are neatly and equally cancelled out and the quantum flows neatly into the atomic.

This realisation has caused a surge in cosmologists now daring to ask (and imagine)“what happened before the big bang”. As far as I know there are at least 27 different theories, each with merit which of course excludes the one where a god did it. To paraphrase Professor Neil Turok “We don’t know exactly how it happened but it is certain that no god did it”

The theory I prefer is that of Dr Laura Mersini-Houghton whose calculations not only explain what could have been the cause but also what caused the major anomalies that cosmology can observe in the present universe. i.e the cold spots in the CMB and the small portion of the universe that appears to be travelling in opposition to the rest.

However at the current state of human knowledge it’s all mute, there is a limit to human understanding and that limit lies at 10^-34th of a second following the start of the event. Prior to that time the very laws that enable us to understand this universe did not exist.

Since: Sep 08

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#149706
Jan 24, 2013
 
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
Stop projecting your flawed logic and inflated ego onto me you dishonest fool. I simply call it as I see it. Faith itself is dishonest for no man knows of any gods and any one who makes an assertion without out knowing if the assertion is true is guilty of falsehood. Every god hustler is a liar and also a coward who refuses to face their own mortality honestly. It's not about god and never has been, it's about your refusal to face death honestly. It is no coincidence that all theists are death deniers. You deny the overwhelming proof that death ends personal memory and awareness for we know for a fact that awareness is brain function, not a ghost.
There is no difference between your fear of death and any theist. You just rationalize it differently.

You have a stoical approach now, but when the time comes and a reality sets in, it will be shaken.

Theists have a focus to ease that transition. You will have nowhere to go,

It's a large universe. Imagine yourself waking up in in an out of the way spot in it, say like an asteroid, not knowing where to go, or what lies out there.

Your consciousness will not cease to be. Your memories and way you think now will, but your "being" won't.

Look at a mirror. You see yourself existing. What lies beyond the mirror?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#149707
Jan 24, 2013
 
Thinking wrote:
The crucifixion was probably just a sex game that went wrong.
<quoted text>
Q: Why did Jesus die on the cross?

A: He forgot his safe word.

Q: What's white and shoots across the sky?

A: The second coming of Jesus.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#149708
Jan 24, 2013
 
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
Adam and Eve? Give me a break! So what was the original sin, eating from the tree of knowledge or the planting of the tree there in the first place? Creating morally challenged imperfect humans only to deliberately tempt them so you can then punish the imperfect objects of your own creation is both evil, and sadistic.
Is there an intelligent man or woman now in the world who believes in the Garden of Eden story? If you find any man who believes it, strike his forehead and you will hear an echo. Something is for rent. Robert Green Ingersoll, "Orthodoxy" (1884)
The inspiration of the Bible depends upon the ignorance of the gentleman who reads it. Robert Green Ingersoll, speech (1881),
+1 good post

Since: Jan 13

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#149709
Jan 24, 2013
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, my parents having sex caused me (at least that is the primary cause).
And what caused them?

A fish?

A blob?

A rock?

Since: Jan 13

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#149710
Jan 24, 2013
 

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polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
They took the idea of 'having time' and negated it? Whether this concept actually applies to the real world is another matter.
You seem to be arguing that the concept is an impossibility?

Mind you, I am finding it difficult trying to get any sense of your own worldview as you seem to be contradicting yourself quite a lot.

Which displays that you do not have a rational worldview to argue from and have to keep jumping around to defend something that you cannot justify...

Since: Jan 13

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#149711
Jan 24, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
That was exactly the point nimrod, you do not have a rational basis based on evidence in your argument. Hubble's law the cosmic background radiation, the position of galaxies in the past support
the BBT. The fact it is a paradox is not evidence it needed a uncaused causer of causes , or even that causality applies.
Yes I do have a rational basis.

That which was caused needs a cause...

Do you deny that obvious truth?

Since: Jan 13

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#149712
Jan 24, 2013
 
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, it's obvious why you are a theist. God is just your substitute for a malfunctioning brain.
I can comprehend abiogenesis. That does not mean I possess the knowledge to perfectly describe it. I can also use your same flawed logic against you. You can not comprehend god, or what it is does or wants since there is no knowledge of any gods, therefore god does not exist according to you.
You can comprehend the process of abiogenesis or the idea of abiogenesis?

They are quite different things.

You need to be specific and more descriptive in your terms.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#149713
Jan 24, 2013
 
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
The BBT is not paradoxical, certainly not now that the mathematics has been developed that can rationalise the infinities as the atomic universe nears zero and (from the other side) the quantum universe nears zero. In the new mathematics these infinities are neatly and equally cancelled out and the quantum flows neatly into the atomic.
This realisation has caused a surge in cosmologists now daring to ask (and imagine)“what happened before the big bang”. As far as I know there are at least 27 different theories, each with merit which of course excludes the one where a god did it. To paraphrase Professor Neil Turok “We don’t know exactly how it happened but it is certain that no god did it”
The theory I prefer is that of Dr Laura Mersini-Houghton whose calculations not only explain what could have been the cause but also what caused the major anomalies that cosmology can observe in the present universe. i.e the cold spots in the CMB and the small portion of the universe that appears to be travelling in opposition to the rest.
However at the current state of human knowledge it’s all mute, there is a limit to human understanding and that limit lies at 10^-34th of a second following the start of the event. Prior to that time the very laws that enable us to understand this universe did not exist.
Sorry Christine, it is a paradox and will always remain one. It could never be recreated and while we can surmise a thousand different way it could have happened. We will never really know. Because you stated it yourself.

10^-34th of a second following the start of the event. Prior to that time the very laws that enable us to understand this universe did not exist

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