Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#148688 Jan 17, 2013
madscot wrote:
<quoted text>
So does Leviticus abrogate Exodus since it comes later?
Leviticus 25:44-46: "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." (NIV)
Certainly you realize that most slaves are kidnapped at one point or another, don't you? If you buy a kidnapped slave, how would you know they were kidnapped?
There were several avenues into slavery. Some were in enslaved due to poverty, known as debt slaves. Some were born into slavery and others came through wars. Then there was slavery as a result of a crime.

At the time there was no welfare system for the unemployed, unskilled, and poor. To survive for some was slavery. Sold into slavery by family members. Apparently there was not a shortage of slaves due to that fact.

Wiki:

“In the Ancient Near East, captives obtained through warfare were often compelled to become slaves, and this was seen by the law code of Deuteronomy as a legitimate form of enslavement, as long as Israelites were not among the victims; the Deuteronomic Code institutes the death penalty for the crime of kidnapping Israelites to enslave them.”

“Yet the Israelites did not get involved in distant or large scale wars, and apparently capture was not a significant source of slaves”

“Poverty, and more general lack of economic security, compelled some people to enter debt bondage.”

“The earlier Covenant Code instructs that if a thief is caught after sunrise, and is unable to make restitution for the theft, then the thief should be enslaved.”

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#148689 Jan 17, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The world used to be flat?
If that's what you think, then no thanks, I'd rather not have a lesson from you.
Damn you :)

OK, the world was believed to be flat until proven otherwise...

My bad.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#148690 Jan 17, 2013
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
u r ignorant, u r mean, racist, u say things and don't even understand u r hurting someone's feelings. You would probably get more hurt if i called God or Jesus names then if i called Catcher names and started picking on him. You would probably laugh at his pain.
Why do u people feel the need to defend God, when he is capable of defending himself? Why can't u see the pain of human-beings, but u believe u feel the pain of God? You love God but u don't love his creation! You walk around with your eyes closed, but u think u can see!
Wow, ok.

Sorry if you think I come off as mean. I'm just honest & blunt. That's my character. I don't put much thought into people's feelings.

I'm by no means racist. To be racist implies that you think your race is superior, I don't think that at all. So I tell racist jokes here & there. I see that as BIG DEAL. Was it the "towel-head" thing that pusses you off? I'm sure it wasn't any if the redneck jokes I've posted...

What do you think I'm ignorant of? One cannot be flat out ignorant of everything.

Of course God is capable of defending Himself, I'm here as a Christian voice to defend Christians, not God.

Oh my dear, my eyes are wide open. I see the world in a way you don't.

Don't be so quick to judge. It's suits you wrong.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#148691 Jan 17, 2013
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you probably mean semi-literate. An illiterate would not be able to read the posts or to compose responses at all, so by definition, there are no illiterates in this forum. I could also point out that there are different standards by which writing skills can be evaluated. Most people are limited to seeing flaws in grammar, spelling, or punctuation, and not well at that. But good writing is so much more than correctness.
Good writing tends to be easy to read because the words chosen correlate well to the ideas being expressed. Sentences are well constructed, and ideas are presented in a natural sequence. The flow of words, of sentences, and of paragraphs is smooth and natural and reflects an intuitive understanding of poetic technique. I find it ironic that the writers who harp the most about writing focus on such trivial aspects as spelling and punctuation while there own writing tends to be jumbled, stilted, and awkward, while some of the posts they criticize are smooth and seem less when I look past the typos and other minor flaws.
It's easy to recognize those who take pleasure in the writing process as opposed to those who regard it as a necessary but secondary task. The former are a pleasure to read even if there are errors, the latter a chore even when the grammar is perfect.
Your response above is one reason I find myself in your fan club. You are far more respectful and honest out of the many that post here.[Tipping hat].

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#148692 Jan 17, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
All forms of life known to man evolve. That fact is independent of the nature of human morality.
<quoted text>
Again, these are independent concepts. Morality is always a matter of personal choice, for atheists and theists.
<quoted text>
How do you have a worldview of which you are ignorant?
How many is "Very few atheists"?
Have you done a survey?
All forms of life know to man evolve?

Are you sure?

Have you seen a fish turn into a man lately?

Maybe you want to qualify the word "evolve"?

As to your point about morality, if you believe that morality is subjective, then nothing is inherently good or bad, it just IS.

Do you understand the conclusion your belief brings you to?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#148693 Jan 17, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You present a perfect illustration of how religion is successful in capturing those who are unable to think for themselves.
Your skydaddy has you on his leash.
This comment has nothing to do with the point I made.

If the best you can do is ad hominem, you had best bow out now.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#148694 Jan 17, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
How did 2-3 million people travel out of Egypt and leave almost no trace? Did they float and have no possessions? I mean, this is a major story of the Bible, lots and lots of people have searched for evidence, which would confirm what the Bible said. They all have come up with nada. I find that telling.
It's akin to the flood story: where is the evidence for the mass migration of every animal on Earth from a single point? Didn't any of them breed or die on their way to wherever they were supposed to go? How did the land animals on Australia get there? Did God provide a special unmentioned ferry for them? Give me a break.
Evidence as what?

Empty pizza boxes?

Empty beer bottles?

Footprints in the sand? Old tires?

Wal-Mart plastic bags?

McDonalds wrappers?

Tire tracks?

Chicken bones?

40 years is not even thin skin of a onion compared to thousands of years. These people were camping out and living in tents. They didn’t produce the trash that a modern society produces.

I take it you have never done any remote camping. You walk in with what you have and walk out taking everything with you including any trash.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#148695 Jan 17, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Lack of belief in god is a rational position. There is no evidence to support the existence of any god.
Secular humanism is not atheistic. It just rejects religious dogma. You can believe in any number of gods and still be a secular humanist. And it doesn't claim any moral absolutes. I don't think such a thing exists.
Denying God is an irrational position.

By doing so, you remove the basis for comprehending transcendental absolutes.

And yes secular humanists are usually atheists by self identification and by practice if they deny the label.

But as you have denied moral absolutes, do you agree nothing is essentially evil or good of itself?

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#148696 Jan 17, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Damn you :)
OK, the world was believed to be flat until proven otherwise...
My bad.
OK, you did have me worried though.

I couldn't imagine how somebody as cultivated, sophisticated and erudite as you could be so misinformed.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#148697 Jan 17, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
How?
And what would be an example of an ultimate standard for morality?
You're basically saying that if it were proven to you that god didn't exist, your morals would vanish.
That's pretty scary.
You'd better stick with god.
I am saying that you also know the God you deny and it can be proven because you will appeal to His absolute moral standards and concepts when it pleases you and you will deny they exist when it pleases you also.

The fact you are arguing against God, proves His existence...

Without Him you have no basis for rational logical absolutes upon which to base your reasoning.

Without Him we are just two chemical accidents fizzing near each other...

And if we are just two chemical accidents fizzing away, how do you know your fizzing is superior to mine...

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#148699 Jan 17, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
This comment has nothing to do with the point I made.
If the best you can do is ad hominem, you had best bow out now.
Sorry, my presence here is permanent.

So be careful.

You just may find yourself under the white sheet.

(One piece of advice: Don't make a complete fool of yourself with the fish-evolving-into-a-man sort of argument.)

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#148698 Jan 17, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
He's making the same kind of arguments as William Lane Craig. Maybe he's a fan.
This kind of troll is good for a few days fun.
Then you will have no difficulty dealing with my arguments then...:-)

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#148700 Jan 17, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Um, what? Do you check what you type before posting the comment? My continual quest for evidence and data shows that I know there are no absolutes, otherwise I'd take whatever is known now and stop learning ... like what you seem to have done.
You KNOW there are NO ABSOLUTES?

Are you ABSOLUTELY sure about that?

I think you are equivocating here and confusing yourself...

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#148701 Jan 17, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Evidence as what?
Empty pizza boxes?
Empty beer bottles?
Footprints in the sand? Old tires?
Wal-Mart plastic bags?
McDonalds wrappers?
Tire tracks?
Chicken bones?
40 years is not even thin skin of a onion compared to thousands of years. These people were camping out and living in tents. They didn’t produce the trash that a modern society produces.
I take it you have never done any remote camping. You walk in with what you have and walk out taking everything with you including any trash.
There's a backpacker's saying: Take only pictures, leave only footprints.

The dudes should have take some pictures!!

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#148702 Jan 17, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
mtimber, now, again I ask, name one thing that is an absolute, anything that is not in a book of myths and legends.
I do not have any fairy tales that I would argue from.

But if you are arguing that only one book is excluded from use as a basis of knowledge, I would ask you why you have excluded that particular book?

As to your question:

You exist...

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#148703 Jan 17, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact you are arguing against God, proves His existence...
What if I substitute "the flying spaghetti monster" for "God"?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#148704 Jan 17, 2013
Thinking wrote:
That was factual, not emotional.
<quoted text>
No sir, it was emotional.

Whenever you are reduced to using expletives to affirm your own authority, you are relying on emotional stimuli.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#148705 Jan 17, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, ok.
Sorry if you think I come off as mean. I'm just honest & blunt. That's my character. I don't put much thought into people's feelings.
I'm by no means racist. To be racist implies that you think your race is superior, I don't think that at all. So I tell racist jokes here & there. I see that as BIG DEAL. Was it the "towel-head" thing that pusses you off? I'm sure it wasn't any if the redneck jokes I've posted...
What do you think I'm ignorant of? One cannot be flat out ignorant of everything.
Of course God is capable of defending Himself, I'm here as a
Christian voice to defend Christians, not God.
Oh my dear, my eyes are wide open. I see the world in a way you don't.
Don't be so quick to judge. It's suits you wrong.
No, it was the racist black joke u made, which wasn't funny at all!! U r a redneck if u wanna take the piss outta yourself go for it, but don't be horrible to others.

U call yourself a christian but yet u "don't put much thought into people's feelings"? O for crying out loud, Jesus died for the sins of people, he cared so much that he gave his life and u don't even care about feelings?

u r ignorant of God's righteousness!!

All people belong to him, i'm not going to defend 1 religious group over another.

I don't want to ever see the world through your eyes, my God never let me see that day!!

And i'm not pissed or angry, i'm being honest!!

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#148706 Jan 17, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
What if I substitute "the flying spaghetti monster" for "God"?
Dawkins false analogy, whilst trumpted by many atheists as the final word on the matter is, is very poor as an argument against God...

Is the flying spaghetti monster:

Omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, absolutely moral and eternal?

If he is then he would have manifested himself to man as such, because it would have been his nature to do so.

So no, you cannot substitute that poor analogy for God and expect your argument to be treated as sincere...

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#148707 Jan 17, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, you did have me worried though.
I couldn't imagine how somebody as cultivated, sophisticated and erudite as you could be so misinformed.
Aw, I knew you'd come around, Catcher.

BTW - erudite, new word for Redneck.

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