Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Read more

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#147581 Jan 8, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Screening for potentially mentally disturbed people is not imposing on freedom, and specifically with all the school shooters there were warning signs that were ignored. Screening is just putting someone to look and not ignore these signs.
But I suggest it go further and since we do bear arms we should be responsible enough to give training and discuss this problem with the children openly. After all this is really a mental heath issue
aside from gang wars and people who are going to break laws regardless.
That is exactly the same attitude Hitler took when screening for mentally disturbed people to segregate them from society. Tell me, would you sterilise them too as Hitler did? I assume you would need to use a national register to identify those that fail your test?

Sorry I am confused by your double standards here,

Honey, the difference between you and I is that I get by digs in directly.

I am sure you wrote
“but not any outright bans or national registration.”

Yet you are also advocating what can only be national screening and national recording for those that don’t meet your standards? How is this to be policed?

Surely national licensing and some form of test/examination at the time of application is a better option than stigmatising a whole nation of children en mass on the chance that some may not be up to your standard…

Anyone, no matter how mentally stable can have a breakdown. Anyone can go one a bender, anyone can develop a grudge. You don’t need to be a schoolchild.

And you call it a problem? If you see gun ownership as a problem why do you advocate it?

“Move into the light.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#147582 Jan 8, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
That is exactly the same attitude Hitler took when screening for mentally disturbed people to segregate them from society. Tell me, would you sterilise them too as Hitler did? I assume you would need to use a national register to identify those that fail your test?
Sorry I am confused by your double standards here,
Honey, the difference between you and I is that I get by digs in directly.
I am sure you wrote
“but not any outright bans or national registration.”
Yet you are also advocating what can only be national screening and national recording for those that don’t meet your standards? How is this to be policed?
Surely national licensing and some form of test/examination at the time of application is a better option than stigmatising a whole nation of children en mass on the chance that some may not be up to your standard…
Anyone, no matter how mentally stable can have a breakdown. Anyone can go one a bender, anyone can develop a grudge. You don’t need to be a schoolchild.
And you call it a problem? If you see gun ownership as a problem why do you advocate it?
We're going to need to work on making access to mental health care at least as easy as access to a gun. We're going to need to look more closely at a culture that all too often glorifies guns and violence. And any actions we must take must begin inside the home and inside our hearts.

“Move into the light.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#147583 Jan 8, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
That is exactly the same attitude Hitler took when screening for mentally disturbed people to segregate them from society. Tell me, would you sterilise them too as Hitler did? I assume you would need to use a national register to identify those that fail your test?
Sorry I am confused by your double standards here,
Honey, the difference between you and I is that I get by digs in directly.
I am sure you wrote
“but not any outright bans or national registration.”
Yet you are also advocating what can only be national screening and national recording for those that don’t meet your standards? How is this to be policed?
Surely national licensing and some form of test/examination at the time of application is a better option than stigmatising a whole nation of children en mass on the chance that some may not be up to your standard…
Anyone, no matter how mentally stable can have a breakdown. Anyone can go one a bender, anyone can develop a grudge. You don’t need to be a schoolchild.
And you call it a problem? If you see gun ownership as a problem why do you advocate it?
Hitler didn't screen for mental health , he screened for potential enemies, if you were not a Nazi, you were the enemy.
It started with disarming the Jews, then calling anyone who was not a Nazi a communist.
It was easy to locate and raid anyone who was potentially a threat to his regime from inside because of the reregistration.

“Move into the light.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#147584 Jan 8, 2013
He then rounded up Jewish people who had no ability to resist because they had been disarmed and proceeded to exterminate them.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#147585 Jan 8, 2013
Freebird USA wrote:
<quoted text> To me "eternal" in and of itself is beyond the realm of the natural world.We can't explain it.That something or anything just "is" and always has been is something that feels visceraaly wrong to me.
And yet, you would say that about your deity.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#147586 Jan 8, 2013
Freebird USA wrote:
<quoted text>I'm willing to take mathemactians at their word when they explain beyond my comprehension. However I also can't discount the the beliefs and opinions of people like John Lennox the Oxford mathematician who whole heartedly believes in God.What I find too much of on these threads is radicals insulting each other and making assumptions about posters who they suspect is the enemy.
Of all areas of 'science', mathematics seems to be the subject with the most theists. Perhaps that is because it doesn't actually deal with the real world (which is why I don't actually count it as a science). But I will agree, there are many intelligent people who believe in a deity. The person that was going to be my physics PhD advisor believed. many of my colleagues believe.

But what I have found is that their belief is not based on the science or the mathematics. It is more based on faith and a *lack* of evidence. Those that believe can certainly be good, even great scientists. But they have to set a strong boundary between their faith and the science they do. In the case of my advisor, he certainly knew the universe to be billions of years old.

And, from my viewpoint, it doesn't bother me that someone believes in a deity as long as they allow for scientific evidence to prevail for understanding the physical world. That means acknowledging that the universe is about 13.7 billion years old and that evolution really does happen. As long as that separation is kept between truth and belief, I have no problem with religion.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#147587 Jan 8, 2013
Freebird USA wrote:
Anyone here familiar with CTMU theory?
I looked it up and read one of the treatises explaining it. It seems to be more of a philosophical mish-mash than anything actually useful. There were some things that I consider to be laughably wrong and a few things that I thought were correct. I'm willing to wait and see if anything useful comes out of it. I doubt it will.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#147588 Jan 8, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
Atheist live in the here and now. Because they live in the natural world. It’s beyond their comprehension the idea of a spiritual world.
The Emperor's New Clothes, ploy? Again?
KJV

United States

#147589 Jan 8, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>But omniscience means he knows my decision before I make it.
Knowing it and forcing you to make it are two very different things.
KJV

United States

#147590 Jan 8, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>But this is a straw man fallacy argument, You claim some deity exist, I simply doubt the validity of YOUR.
I see.
KJV

United States

#147591 Jan 8, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>Now that's some fancy singin' and dancin' there! So I cannot do anything that is inconsistent with my nature, so by this twisted logic I would be omnipotent too. That's absurd.

To accept this argument is to redefine the word "all" such that "all powerful" is some strange twilight zone parody of "all". You really fell for this lame apologetic?
The point is that God cannot do something that is a violation of his own existence and nature.
KJV

United States

#147592 Jan 8, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>If you refuse to provide evidence of your assertions, then you are more dishonest than I had originally thought.
No I refuse to repeat myself. I'm sorry you missed it on the first 3 or 4 times that it was posted.
Thinking

Leighton Buzzard, UK

#147593 Jan 8, 2013
The bible says god isn't omniscient.
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Knowing it and forcing you to make it are two very different things.
KJV

United States

#147594 Jan 8, 2013
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>The CIA factbook does not show its methodology for arriving at those figures nor is there any indication of how old the data on which it is based are. Other sources are more transparent, notably the Pew Forum and ARIS. Without that metadata, there is no way of knowing how reliable its statistics are.
"The CIA World Factbook gives the world population as 7,021,836,029 (July 2012 est.) and the distribution of religions as Christian 33.35%(of which Roman Catholic 16.83%, Protestant 6.08%, Orthodox 4.03%, Anglican 1.26%), Muslim 22.43%, Hindu 13.78%, Buddhist 7.13%, Sikh 0.36%, Jewish 0.21%, Baha'i 0.11%, other religions 11.17%, non-religious 9.42%, atheists 2.04%.

Ok let's look at this.

"nor is there any indication of how old the data on which it is based are"

July 2012 est.
This date is not good enough for you?

You say you like the Pew Forum.

"In 2007, a Pew Forum survey found that the atheist population in the United States was 1.6% of the American population."

This is a bit older but it's all I have found from pew.

As far as the lot her issues with The CIA fact book you have the capability to go to the web site for your other answers.

"A survey published in the 2005 Encyclopedia Britannica stated that 2.3% of the world's population consists of individuals who profess "atheism, skepticism, disbelief, or irreligion, including the militantly antireligious." In regards to the 2.3% figure just mentioned, the 2005 survey cited by Encyclopedia Britannica survey did not include Buddhist in regards to the 2.3% figure and Buddhism can be theistic or atheistic."

Wikipedia:

"Another survey attributed to Britannica shows the population of atheists at around 2.4% of the world's population.[citation needed] It is difficult to determine whether atheism is growing or not"

Wikipedia :

"2005 poll by AP/Ipsos surveyed ten countries. Of the developed nations, people in the United States were most sure of the existence of God or a higher power (2% atheist, 4% agnostic)"

Wikipedia :

"According to one estimate, atheists make up about 2.3% of the world's population"

"In 2007, a Pew Forum survey found that the atheist population in the United States was 1.6% of the American population."

"Global atheism is shrinking and demographic changes in the United States and the world are expected to shrink the influence of American secularism.

In 2012, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary reported that globally every day there are 800 less atheists per day, 1,100 less non-religious (agnostic) people per day and 83,000 more people professing to be Christians per day.
In 2011, the American Spectator declared concerning research published in the International Bulletin of

Missionary Research:
The report estimates about 80,000 new Christians every day, 79,000 new Muslims every day, and 300 fewer atheists every day. These atheists are presumably disproportionately represented in the West, while religion is thriving in the Global South, where charismatic Christianity is exploding."

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#147595 Jan 8, 2013
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuse me if I go with the guy who doesn't depict the crusades as simply "killing brown people".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =X0zudTQelzIXX&list=UUX6b1 7PVsYBQ0ip5gyeme-Q&index=7 4
Way to skip past the point to nitpick one of the summaries. Majority is wrong more often than not, end of story.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#147596 Jan 8, 2013
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>Facts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =Ooa98FHuaU0XX
fbi.gov
Nice! He touched on the big issue; "FEAR". To get a group of people to do anything, it seems that it takes fear.

Germany in the 1930's & 40's. Does anyone really believe that Germans hated the Jews? They did not, they feared hitler and the ss. Would you give up your family or would you turn on your neighbor? Far too many of us would quickly turn on our neighbor.

What about christians? If you didn't worry about spending eternity in hell, would you still believe? I don't think so. Even if your church is not the fire and brimstone type, you are taught from the beginning, that there is major consequences for not believing properly. Why would a god torture you for eternity, just for not believing that which you cannot verify?

Americans, how do you think the Patriot Act got voted in? Why are we unlawfully searched at airports? Simply, we are afraid. Some of you remember the 60's & 70's; it seemed like every week, some was highjacking an airplane.

Fear, still the best form of control.

The second best form of control; pull at the heart strings. Who doesn't feel for the children on the christian children's fund? But who sits down and figures out how to prevent hungry children? Like, stop having children that you cannot possible feed! The hard reality is, we feed these children, they survive and have children that they cannot feed, we feed them, they survive and have children that they cannot possibly feed and no one seems to say, "STOP having children! Learn how to deal with the environment or move to a place where you can deal with it. Get an education/trade."

Nope! Just a, "You are heartless for even suggesting that they take responsibility for their actions!"

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#147597 Jan 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"The CIA World Factbook gives the world population as 7,021,836,029 (July 2012 est.) and the distribution of religions as Christian 33.35%(of which Roman Catholic 16.83%, Protestant 6.08%, Orthodox 4.03%, Anglican 1.26%), Muslim 22.43%, Hindu 13.78%, Buddhist 7.13%, Sikh 0.36%, Jewish 0.21%, Baha'i 0.11%, other religions 11.17%, non-religious 9.42%, atheists 2.04%.
Ok let's look at this.
"nor is there any indication of how old the data on which it is based are"
July 2012 est.
This date is not good enough for you?
You say you like the Pew Forum.
"In 2007, a Pew Forum survey found that the atheist population in the United States was 1.6% of the American population."
This is a bit older but it's all I have found from pew.
As far as the lot her issues with The CIA fact book you have the capability to go to the web site for your other answers.
"A survey published in the 2005 Encyclopedia Britannica stated that 2.3% of the world's population consists of individuals who profess "atheism, skepticism, disbelief, or irreligion, including the militantly antireligious." In regards to the 2.3% figure just mentioned, the 2005 survey cited by Encyclopedia Britannica survey did not include Buddhist in regards to the 2.3% figure and Buddhism can be theistic or atheistic."
Wikipedia:
"Another survey attributed to Britannica shows the population of atheists at around 2.4% of the world's population.[citation needed] It is difficult to determine whether atheism is growing or not"
Wikipedia :
"2005 poll by AP/Ipsos surveyed ten countries. Of the developed nations, people in the United States were most sure of the existence of God or a higher power (2% atheist, 4% agnostic)"
Wikipedia :
"According to one estimate, atheists make up about 2.3% of the world's population"
"In 2007, a Pew Forum survey found that the atheist population in the United States was 1.6% of the American population."
"Global atheism is shrinking and demographic changes in the United States and the world are expected to shrink the influence of American secularism.
In 2012, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary reported that globally every day there are 800 less atheists per day, 1,100 less non-religious (agnostic) people per day and 83,000 more people professing to be Christians per day.
In 2011, the American Spectator declared concerning research published in the International Bulletin of
Missionary Research:
The report estimates about 80,000 new Christians every day, 79,000 new Muslims every day, and 300 fewer atheists every day. These atheists are presumably disproportionately represented in the West, while religion is thriving in the Global South, where charismatic Christianity is exploding."
Since you are inherently siding with the majority it is safe to assume that you don't care about being correct at all.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#147598 Jan 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
No I refuse to repeat myself. I'm sorry you missed it on the first 3 or 4 times that it was posted.
Let me get this straight; you refuse to repeat yourself; but you have repeated yourself 3 or 4 times? OK.

Next, you have some proof that your god exist, but you are refusing to share it? How does your god feel about that?

I know, there is a bible verse for every situation! Whether you need a for or an against on any subject, the bible has a verse for it.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#147599 Jan 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>The point is that God cannot do something that is a violation of his own existence and nature.
So he's not omnipotent.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#147600 Jan 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
No I refuse to repeat myself. I'm sorry you missed it on the first 3 or 4 times that it was posted.
So far you have not presented any evidence. So presenting evidence would be a first, not a repetition.

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