Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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#146270
Jan 1, 2013
 

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WesTheDuck wrote:
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When looking at the purpose of something, you do not look at the reason why people buy it, you look at how and why it is MADE.
Guns are made to be used as weapons.
By the logic you use, I should be allowed to buy grenades because I want to use them to go fishing.
None of my guns are meant to kill. They serve the purpose of entertainment and sport and to protect my family and if I had to protect my family my objectives would be 1. to stop the bad guy and 2 try not to kill him.

In fact, such a large fraction of guns in our society are meant for entertainment and other functions than killing that to describe guns in general as being meant to kill is irrational.

That would be like saying the only purpose of the motorcycle is to jump ramps or the only purpose of the car is to ram things.

“cdesign proponentsists”

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#146271
Jan 1, 2013
 

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WesTheDuck wrote:
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Oh, and for 200 years, owning a firearm was not a right. The 2nd amendment is speaking about the military, not average people.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
People who say the 2nd amendment is "Right to bear arms" obviously have not read it.
I trust that you are well educated in constitutional law! Since so many experts disagree with you, I can only assume that you are better educated than they are.

I wonder why there is a comma here? "State, the" Maybe you can explain?

“cdesign proponentsists”

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#146272
Jan 1, 2013
 

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WesTheDuck wrote:
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No, I wouldn't. An ideal set of gun control laws, in my opinion, would be similar to those of Australia - where you can only obtain a gun if you have a good reason to own one and can prove that you have a good reason to own one.
I do! The 2nd Amendment!

“I am but a humble duck.”

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#146273
Jan 1, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
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Are you American?
If so, it's pretty sad that you don't know what the American way is.
Guns are not designed to kill. Period.
It's my American right to own a gun and you can't stop it.
Still haven't told me what the American way is.

I assume you're speaking about the Constitution?

Well, for 200 years owning a gun was NOT a right, because the second amendment is very obviously talking about the military's right to own a gun.

Also, you're right. Guns aren't just designed to kill - they're designed to harm.

“cdesign proponentsists”

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#146274
Jan 1, 2013
 

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WesTheDuck wrote:
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Let's look at what the OED has to say about guns.
Definition of gun
noun
a weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise.
Note how OED - the voted BEST dictionary - disagrees with you.
However - seeing as definitions can vary, I'd like to point out that you keep saying that guns can be used as tools, but WEAPONS ARE TOOLS. Tools that are meant to cause harm.
Let's search to only the definitions that support our cause and ignore all the rest! Just like a fundie.

“I am but a humble duck.”

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#146275
Jan 1, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
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None of my guns are meant to kill. They serve the purpose of entertainment and sport and to protect my family and if I had to protect my family my objectives would be 1. to stop the bad guy and 2 try not to kill him.
In fact, such a large fraction of guns in our society are meant for entertainment and other functions than killing that to describe guns in general as being meant to kill is irrational.
That would be like saying the only purpose of the motorcycle is to jump ramps or the only purpose of the car is to ram things.
Once again - your argument is flawed. Something's intent is not defined by how people use it (as I said - many people use books to prop things up. Doesn't mean books are made to do that, does it?). It is defined what the people who make it make it to do. Guns are made to harm.

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#146276
Jan 1, 2013
 

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The pupose of a gun is to propel a projectile.

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#146277
Jan 1, 2013
 

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WesTheDuck wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's look at what the OED has to say about guns.
Definition of gun
noun
a weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise.
Note how OED - the voted BEST dictionary - disagrees with you.
However - seeing as definitions can vary, I'd like to point out that you keep saying that guns can be used as tools, but WEAPONS ARE TOOLS. Tools that are meant to cause harm.
Who voted them the " best dictionary"? You?

Merriam-Webster would disagree with you....

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gun

“cdesign proponentsists”

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#146278
Jan 1, 2013
 

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WesTheDuck wrote:
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Once again - your argument is flawed. Something's intent is not defined by how people use it (as I said - many people use books to prop things up. Doesn't mean books are made to do that, does it?). It is defined what the people who make it make it to do. Guns are made to harm.
Once again, your logic fails. TNT was not intended for killing.
LorenEberly

Sunbury, OH

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#146279
Jan 1, 2013
 
Agreement to Avoid Fiscal Cliff:
The majority of US the Government of this Representative Republic that vote and the nonvoters that sit on their dead hands and whine; Successfully reelected Obnoxious President, Governor, Representatives of US the Government, County Commissioners, Township Trustees, Mayors, City Council, School Administrators and Board Members.
That defies USA Labor Law, The Constitution, and demands of Natural Law: what Mother Nature, God, or Whatever Power decreed to be the reality of the real world, democracy, capitalism, the US Constitution, and free, fair, and affordable commerce and common sense demands.
Demanding every Stockholder, corporation, farmer, business, outsourcer sweatshop, and nonprofit, tax-exempt, organization and Church; markets the cost in the wholesale and retail price of his or her product and service; of every American Citizen, worker, consumer, and taxpayers wages (union contract), healthcare, pension, investment and independent business profit.
This enables every American Citizen, worker, consumer, and taxpayer to pay healthcare insurance premium or pay healthcare provider. Pay ALL taxes and pay for every product and service they use for life. With same percentage of their wages, investment profit, and independent business profit.
And enables every parent to educate, love, nurse, nurture, discipline, protect, and provide; for every child (job) they conceive. And fund schools, infrastructure, local and national security, government services, and etc.; with money derived from wages, investment profit, and independent business profit.
President and Elected Officials holding Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and America’s grandchildren’s children, Government employees, Parents, Teachers, Veterans, Police, Firemen, and Fathers disqualified for affirmative action with white skin, Representatives deny Collective Bargaining Rights accountable.
To fund Illegal drug users and Immigrants, lottery, casino, and keno losers, unemployed Union workers replaced with nonunion workers, Human Traffickers, waitresses that pander for life for $2.00 per hour, slaves in enterprise zones, low-income child labor, consumers, and taxpayers, volunteers without wages, and nonunion workers willing to work for fewer wages than they can afford life. That pays with welfare checks, food stamps, housing vouchers, and Medicaid.
And pay sales tax on the more stock dividends (money) OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders (money marketers) market quarterly. In the wholesale and retail price of every product and service Human Beings use for life. And School Boards and Government needs to build, maintain and operate schools, infrastructure, and provide local and national security, and Government services. That gets only product or service.
Needed to measure and maintain the strength and growth of this UNAFFORDABLE economy and distribute money Human Beings cannot digest, burn in internal combustion engines, or burn to heat and cool their American Dream. Into OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders portfolios.
Created Ohio’s $1.35 trillion budget deficit, the $40 trillion social security and the $16 trillion national debt and demands America’s grandchildren’s children pay Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders interest with this debt until they are 18 years old.
Defying USA Labor Law, the Constitution, and Realities demands is bankrupting USA. Makes free, fair, and affordable commerce IMPOSSIBLE; Makes funding schools IMPOSSIBLE; Makes balancing every budget IMPOSSIBLE. And put Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and Americas grandchildren's children on fiscal cliff.
America’s grandchildren’s children cannot afford life and pay this debt with the $7.25 per hour Government mandated labor wage in a hundred million years.

“I am but a humble duck.”

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#146280
Jan 1, 2013
 

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TheBlackSheep wrote:
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Once again, your logic fails. TNT was not intended for killing.
Nor was it intended for use by common civilians.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

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#146281
Jan 1, 2013
 
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
That was a misinterpretation. It's supposed to be repeatedly spanked. That's one of his lessons that I follow.
Kinky. I like it. Who knew getting closer to God would be so much fun?

“I am but a humble duck.”

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#146283
Jan 1, 2013
 

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TheBlackSheep wrote:
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Let's search to only the definitions that support our cause and ignore all the rest! Just like a fundie.
No, I chose the ONLY definition of the noun "gun" in the OED. The rest are examples of guns.

Someone needs to learn how to use a dictionary!
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/engl...

“Credulity is not a virtue”

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#146284
Jan 1, 2013
 
TheBlackSheep wrote:
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Why would jesus allow someone in his party carry a weapon? Goes against everything that he preached.
Indeed. Yet more Biblical contradictions.
And if you were present at the time and see jesus pick up the ear and reattach it, wouldn't you be too flabbergasted to arrest him?
Of course, as you pointed out, had Jesus been consistent, and a truly effective messiah, healing a wound that should have never happened in the first place would not have been necessary. This is pretty typical of Christian thinking in my experience. They celebrate and give credit to God for, say, curing cancer, but never stop to think about the necessity for the cancer in the first place.

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#146285
Jan 1, 2013
 
WesTheDuck wrote:
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Nor was it intended for use by common civilians.
Miners aren't common civilians?

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#146286
Jan 1, 2013
 
WesTheDuck wrote:
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Nor was it intended for use by common civilians.
Who said that? You could buy it in the General Store, until too many people robbed banks with it.

Do not lie for your cause.

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#146287
Jan 1, 2013
 
WesTheDuck wrote:
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No, I chose the ONLY definition of the noun "gun" in the OED. The rest are examples of guns.
Someone needs to learn how to use a dictionary!
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/engl...
Indeed... www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gun

But neither definition defines a guns purpose as to "kill people", as you suggest.

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#146288
Jan 1, 2013
 

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TheBlackSheep wrote:
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I do! The 2nd Amendment!
Few problems with the 2nd Amendment.

First, it was very likely intended for military. Not civilians. If the Founding Fathers wanted everyone to have the right to bear arms, they would have mentioned it in another, separate amendment. This is why for 200 years after the founding of our nation, it WASN'T considered a right to own a gun. Not until the mid 20th century.

Second, when it was written the only "arms" people had were inaccurate, single shot rifles. Using it as a standard for all modern weaponry is obviously outdated.

Owning something that has such a capability of damage should be a privilege. Not a right.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

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#146289
Jan 1, 2013
 
TheBlackSheep wrote:
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I respect you and Richard's opinions; what would you have us do?
What do we do if the government, as so many have done in the past, becomes too corrupt? With the 99%'er out there, the switch to socialism is not too far in our future.
I'm imagining a bunch of vigilantes armed with rifles and handguns setting off to confront the police and military. I can't imagine that will go well.
What will you do during a disaster? Most people that I have seen have handled things quite well, but what happens when someone decides that they need your food more than you?
What happens when you and said someone are both armed? What if said someone has more armed friends than you do? And where does such escalation stop? Am I safer with a scud missile in my garage than a handgun, just in case?
I don't dwell on these two issue much, not very much at all, but I would like to be ready to handle them, when they happen. If I am not mistaken, history does tell us that they will happen.
I don't see how the daily social cost of a society flooded with guns is worth the price against an imagined social apocalypse. Moreover, if you are really worried about such a breakdown of society, your best bet is to form an armed and trained vigilante gang. Because if it's just you with a gun and an armed group, you are screwed anyway.
You are, from what I can tell from your posts, a very intelligent person; how many governments disarmed their people to better control them? How many of those were what we would call, good governments?
Thanks. But again, what are my odds against the police and military? I hardly think rifles and handguns, even en masse, are keeping them in check.

“I am but a humble duck.”

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#146290
Jan 1, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
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Miners aren't common civilians?
You misunderstand the use of the term "common civilians." The average person does not know how to use TNT.

People who should be allowed to use TNT should be

a)educated on the use of it

and b) have a good reason to use it (no - using TNT because it is loud or fun is not a good reason)

This is how guns should be regulated, too. If people

a) know how to use them

and b) have a good reason to use them (no - using guns because it is loud or fun is not a good reason), they should be allowed to use them.

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