Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 238936 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#139371 Nov 20, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, dave, I know that you're talking about magnetic currents. I say things like "god of the magnets" to mess with you. All your nonsensical pontificating about electricity does not prove, or even suggest, that we are being "controlled" by the EM force. The presence of a magnetic element in our blood does not mean that we are at the whim of the EM force.
But anyways, this is a pointless conversation. You are the most enlightened man on the planet, you know the secret of the universe, and you are too laid back to tell anyone but a few people on topix. Got it.
:-)

Timmy, me boy, you have this old man a bit confused.

I thought you came on here as an atheist, believing science disproves any deity or supernatural force. What I am presenting IS "scientific" fact. You are literally part of the wiring, figuratively speaking, of the entire universe. That EM and gravity goes everywhere and through everything, and deals with those nuclear forces, pushing them around, actually. So, as the universe goes, you are going to follow. You can't be intelligent unless the universe is.

You say the natural laws are absolute, yet for some reason, you don't believe you or other humans have to follow them. Oh, those galaxies out there have to, but you don't. That appears some supernatural force in us and yourself exists. Or some sort of special privilege.

I can't say you are being hypocritical, but confused in your beliefs may be indicated. But you aren't alone. There are several "atheists" on here believing they are above the natural laws they claim created us. Then they get on here and brazenly sneer at those that believe in a supernatural force. On an international forum for everyone to read. Of course, they hide behind false names. Good reason.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#139372 Nov 20, 2012
bossdrop wrote:
<quoted text>A sikh eh?...met a lot of sikhs in my travels in Asia. In fact, quite a few work for a marketing firm I have contracts with. You guys are nice people :)
Look, I will be the first to tell you, I don't like the Christian Religion either. Religion cannot make someone know Jesus Christ. The Christian Religion, have done many evil things throughout history. I think its Gandhi that said he has no problem with Jesus, its Christians he don't like or something like that. I would agree.
Just because someone says they are a Christian, does not mean they know Jesus Christ. and if they do not have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, then all they have is a religion.
As far as the teachings on hell..<shrughs>. It comes down to this. Do you believe God is Omnipotent? If you say yes, then you must ask yourself, why would it be too hard for God to have His creation mankind document in a book exactly what He GoD wanted us to know. And would it be too hard for God to have mankind choose the books of the bible that is authentic to God's knowledge to us mankind.
If you say that would not be too hard for an Omnipotent God, and I agree that would not be too hard for God...then why would you not believe the teachings about Hell?
And if you say, that would be too hard for God and you're still skeptical of whats in the bible...then you have to conclude, God is not Omnipotent. And if you conclude God is not Omnipotent, then you must conclude there is no God. Because by definition, God has to be Omnipotent.
I believe God is Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent. So although there are many teachings and accounts in the bible that I may not agree with, to me they are authentic.
But unfortunately, Christians do wield hell like a hammer. Sorry to say I have done it in the pass as well. But hell is not to be wielded like a hammer. It does nothing to bring people to Christ and in fact may make people more resistant to the teachings of Christ.
I think generally most people who call themselves sikhs are very nice. It's very hard to deny historical evidence that the guru's who wrote the GGS were very nice people. It's because of this fact, that it's very hard for sikhs to take the 'evil' parts of the GGS and justify their evil actions, like we can see many muslims doing with the koran.

I don't have a problem with Gandhi, but I do with his views. I think people have made him nicer than he actually was.

I also believe God is Omniscient, Omnipresent and Omnipotent, not because the bible says it, but because my faith says it too. However, we don't have the fear of hell and pleasure of heaven. Hell is a place were there is no God, but God is everywhere, so where is hell????

"Wherever you keep me, I am in heaven" - GGS

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#139373 Nov 20, 2012
Thinking wrote:
I have a choice to say today isn't Tuesday, but, here in England, at time of writing, it's generally accepted that it is indeed Tuesday.
<quoted text>
Ok, Ok, Ok, I believe it! lol

It's a very wet Tuesday!!

Since: Mar 11

United States

#139374 Nov 20, 2012
I hate to say it but for once I agree with bob.
_BobLoblah_ wrote:
<quoted text>21Nov12.....
.....Do NOT listen to dis schidt-for-brains 'bossDroppings', Clementia. You have more common sense den this eeejit has.
Ps:'bossDroppings' is fulla schidt to da eyeballs.
..and den sum tooooooooooo.
Forever and Ever
BobLoblah

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#139375 Nov 20, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Even if it goes against the evidence?
noooooo! Why do you guys not understand? I was messing with Drew, because he keeps asking me too many weird questions! It's like me saying, God did it!

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#139376 Nov 20, 2012
_BobLoblah_ wrote:
<quoted text>21Nov12.....
.....Do NOT listen to dis schidt-for-brains 'bossDroppings', Clementia. You have more common sense den this eeejit has.
Ps:'bossDroppings' is fulla schidt to da eyeballs.
..and den sum tooooooooooo.
Forever and Ever
BobLoblah
Why? I thought he's a christian? What, don't christians like christians? please clarify!

He confused me with the hell and God being Omnipresent thing!

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#139377 Nov 20, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
I hate to say it but for once I agree with bob.
<quoted text>
Seriously, I have more common sense than him? What's so bad about him that both you atheists and christians don't like him?
Thinking

Andover, UK

#139378 Nov 20, 2012
And not in a good way.
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, Ok, Ok, I believe it! lol
It's a very wet Tuesday!!

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#139379 Nov 20, 2012
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
You glued your hands together for a bet?
Using what?
super glue

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#139380 Nov 20, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with much of what you posted.
Now, why the outright denial a supernatural force is responsible? You certainly don't have enough evidence to make that a fact.
Supernatural is another way of saying "not understood".
So in reality supernatural "doesn't exist".^>

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#139381 Nov 20, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> super glue
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate

Super Glue can ignite cotton. Variations of it are used to close wounds instead of sutures.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#139382 Nov 20, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Supernatural is another way of saying "not understood".
So in reality supernatural "doesn't exist".^>
That was pretty poor.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#139383 Nov 20, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, Ok, Ok, I believe it! lol
It's a very wet Tuesday!!
Not here.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#139384 Nov 20, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Are dark energy, and the forces of dark matter supernatural? They certainly would be considered such unless they were needed to make your calculations appear correct.
But because they are subject to the laws of physics, they are not.
Would the EM of dark matter work the same as visible?
This is one things we know about dark matter: it does not interact strongly with light, i.e. E&M. So the answer is no.
If the gravity of dark matter originated in the BB, wouldn't the accompanying EM? Along with the nuclear forces? Could it be detected? Is it detected? Would the forces of this darkness cancel that of the visible?
There is no reason particles *have* to interact strongly with E&M: if they are uncharged, for example. I'm not sure how to interpret the rest of your questions: the gravity of dark matter 'originates' in the same way as for ordinary matter: from the energy density (mass included in the energy here). The best bet as of right now is that dark matter is composed of particles that interact primarily through the weak force, not E&M or the strong force. If dark matter is composed of axions, though, there would be a weak interaction with E&M, which could even explain the 511MeV glow around out galaxy. At this point, we need more data.

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#139385 Nov 20, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-relation...
I don't think you truly grasp the physical realities of quantum mechanics.
You are confusing problems with observing with the actual physical goings on.
Your "randomness" is "magic". POOF!!! Or it is mathematical fudge factors for incorrect observation and interpretation.
\Random may be a sequential set of events but to understand it is takes crunching the numbers to see the pattern. So by all intents and purpose a event that is only repetitive on a scale that large is "random".

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#139386 Nov 20, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-relation...
I don't think you truly grasp the physical realities of quantum mechanics.
You are confusing problems with observing with the actual physical goings on.
Your "randomness" is "magic". POOF!!! Or it is mathematical fudge factors for incorrect observation and interpretation.
No, I am definitely NOT confusing problems of observation with what is actually going on. That is the whole point of Bell's inequalities:*any* deterministic system has to obey those inequalities, but QM does not and neither does the real world. Randomness is an essential aspect of reality.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#139387 Nov 20, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
SORRY!! I have a habit of talking in generalities and not being very articulate, I'm honestly sorry. I will definitely try to express my view more clearly.
An atheist never actually said that the world just created itself, that was just me being stupid and lazy to write out what he actually said, sorry again.
The problem is that most religious people don't want to understand atheists and vice versa. My belief isn't that different to most atheists. The main difference is that I use the word God where atheists use a question mark, other than that we agree on mostly everything else. If we all tried to understand eachother, I believe there wouldn't be any arguements.
There will always be arguments, and that's okay.

I understand the theistic perspective very well. Many of the other atheists on Topix do too. Understanding and agreeing are very different things though.

I like how you seek to join instead of divide. That's worth a lot to me.

:)

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#139388 Nov 20, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
You can do anything and everything, you just have to believe!:-)
I'm not a fan of unbridled optimism.

I'm a realist.

I calculate.

I'm not cold though. I'm a warm calculator.
Thinking

Andover, UK

#139389 Nov 20, 2012
Good catch ;)
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> super glue

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#139390 Nov 20, 2012
Dave, did you know that computers never generate random numbers? Not at all, it's impossible for them to. This is because random is mathematically impossible, once an algorithm is developed to map out events it ceases to be random, because we just stop perceiving it as random. Computers simulate the unknown quantities by producing what we call pseudo-random values, based on a stored set of values in the chip set, these values are the response given whenever a "random" number is requested by the program. They are always in the exact same order, what changes is the starting location, often called the "seed." Seed values are typically determined by the clock value, the milliseconds since epoch typically, then the program uses that seed as the starting point in the list of numerical values. The best approach is to change the seed often, based on a specific queue from the program to poll the time value and apply that as the new seed.

However, no matter how well someone codes this, if you're keen on patterns you will see the pattern. I can see the pattern in video games all the time, to me, nothing in a computer game is ever random, because I spot the pattern and the queue becomes autonomic for me. It's one reason people don't like to play against me in any game that depends on the random method calls.

The point of all that, nothing, and I do mean nothing, in the universe is random, however, just because nothing is random doesn't mean everything has to have a "purpose."

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