Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

[RiversideRedneck]

Aura Mytha wrote:

<quoted text>
Produce a god that I can not believe in and I will agree.
There is no belief system in something that doesn't exist.
How about this one ...
"the doctrine or belief that there is no Vampires"
Are you saying the denial there are Vampires is a belief system?
So you see how ridiculous you sound.

No, but I'm really starting to see just how blind you atheists are.

Do you "believe" there is no God or gods? Or do you "know" there is no God or gods.
Answer: You BELIEVE there is no God or gods....

[RiversideRedneck]

polymath257 wrote:

<quoted text>
Sure, no problem. Let's be clear that you know what they are.
1. 0 Is a number
2. If x is a number, then Sx (the successor of x) is a number.
3. If x and y are numbers and Sx=Sy, then x=y.
4. There is no x such that Sx=0.
5. Suppose P() is a property of numbers (x) and
a. P(0) is true
b. for any x, P(x) true implies that P(Sx) is true
Then P(x) is true for all numbers x.
Then we define
1. x+0=x for every number x
2.+Sy=S(x+y) for all numbers x and y
3. x*0=0 for all numbers x
4. x*(Sy)=(x*y)+x for all numbers x and y.
Then, define 1=S0, 2=S1, 3=2+1, 4=2+2, 5=3+2, 6=3+3, 7=3+4, 10=5+5, 40=4*10 and 42=40+2.
So those are the axioms and the definitions we will use. Are those good enough for you?

No, I was hoping for something a little more intelligent. But if it works for you, then.....

[RiversideRedneck]

scaritual wrote:

Just because it mentions the Moses in the bible does not mean that the Moses existed.

Just because you say Moses didn't exist doesn't mean that he didn't exist....

A 2,000 year old book, thousands & thousands of scholars, theologans, even scientists agree that Moses existed.

But scaritual say "no".

ummm

[RiversideRedneck]

scaritual wrote:

<quoted text>It falls within the definition of a myth.
That is all the proof that is necessary.
That you cannot grasp that simple fact is irrelevant.

It is not simple fact, dude. It's your opinion.

There's nothing wrong with you having your own opinion.

It also falls under narrative, story, tale, legend, history, recital, account, report, statement, reckoning, score,**inhale**

The necessities of your "proofs" seem quite limited.

[TheBlackSheep]

RiversideRedneck wrote:

<quoted text>
Just because you say Moses didn't exist doesn't mean that he didn't exist....
A 2,000 year old book, thousands & thousands of scholars, theologans, even scientists agree that Moses existed.
But scaritual say "no".
ummm

Name them. Name the scholars and the scientists. No one, but the uneducated, thinks the Moses, Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, etc. were real people.

[RiversideRedneck]

Oscar_Wilde wrote:

<quoted text>Atheists always move the goal posts, so as to try to not include their myth based beliefs that they call science.

It's strange, Oscar. It's like they're afraid to admit that it's their belief that God is fake. I wonder if they feel that if they start saying that, they'll start to believe something else....

[RiversideRedneck]

TheBlackSheep wrote:

<quoted text>
Name them. Name the scholars and the scientists. No one, but the uneducated, thinks the Moses, Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham, etc. were real people.

Only the "uneducated", eh? You mean like you? Here's a few of those "dumb" people that believe:

(note that they're all scientists)

Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
Robert Boyle (1791-1867)
Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)
Max Planck (1858-1947)
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

[TheBlackSheep]

RiversideRedneck wrote:

<quoted text>
It's strange, Oscar. It's like they're afraid to admit that it's their belief that God is fake. I wonder if they feel that if they start saying that, they'll start to believe something else....

WTF are you talking about? Of course I believe that all gods are make believe! I haven't seen one bit of evidence to the contrary.

[TheBlackSheep]

RiversideRedneck wrote:

<quoted text>
Only the "uneducated", eh? You mean like you? Here's a few of those "dumb" people that believe:
(note that they're all scientists)
Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
Robert Boyle (1791-1867)
Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)
Max Planck (1858-1947)
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

List people who are alive and we can ask.

I have never read a quote from Albert Einstein, saying that he believed that Moses was a real person. Maybe you could produce one?

[RiversideRedneck]

TheBlackSheep wrote:

<quoted text>
WTF are you talking about? Of course I believe that all gods are make believe! I haven't seen one bit of evidence to the contrary.

Have you looked?

[Christine N]

While I'm new on 'the block', come on up to the The Last Chance 'Bed'nBreakfast'.

I can give you a steal of a real deal and more than the bolemic thinnys can offer.

Take a good look at my moniker and you can see that I have what it takes to pin you down.

Atheists will be charged 200 rubles for 2 minutes.

Christians will be charged 12 riyals for 3 minutes.

Catholics will be charged 78 dollars US per night.

Brits will be charged 0.30 pounds for 1/2 minute.

Europeans will not be charged.

Italians can stay away.

These prices pertain to use of my room, but use of my car is a little extra.

[scaritual]

scaritual wrote:
Just because it mentions the Moses in the bible does not mean that the Moses existed.

RiversideRedneck wrote:

<quoted text>
Just because you say Moses didn't exist doesn't mean that he didn't exist....
A 2,000 year old book, thousands & thousands of scholars, theologans, even scientists agree that Moses existed.
But scaritual say "no".
ummm

.

Now you're saying I said something I did not say.

Provide any archaeological evidence or proof that verifies the Moses existed as a literal person - outside of the mention in the bible that the Moses existed.

[The Dude]

RiversideRedneck wrote:

<quoted text>
Only the "uneducated", eh? You mean like you? Here's a few of those "dumb" people that believe:
(note that they're all scientists)
Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
Robert Boyle (1791-1867)
Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)
Max Planck (1858-1947)
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

Einstein wasn't a fan of atheists quoting him as supporting their position, however he was no creationist, nor even a theist in the classical sense. Certainly not a Christian.

Also Galileo was tried by the Christian establishment for daring to deny the Bible, as the Bible (if taken literally) quite simply describes the universe completely and utterly and totally WRONG. The Earth is not flat, and the universe does not revolve around it.

(This is why there's no such thing as a Biblical literalist).

There may or may not be a God.

So far there is no scientific evidence (at all) to support it.

[lightbeamrider]

scaritual wrote:

You're conflating what you believe,

As are you with your prosaic anti supernatural bias which you assume to be true at all places in all times. You are no different, in principle, than flat earthers who made fixed assumptions based on available evidence at the time

and what can be determined historically.

If you or Ehrman could put aside your fixed anti supernatural bias and look at the evidence from history using historical method then resurrection best explains the whole of the facts. If Ehrman does not believe Christ resurrected then he has to explain why some accounts have Jesus down as a magician and what happened to the body. Where, for example is the shrine if the body was still there? Ehrman admits Christ was crucified under Pilate and His followers accused the authorities of killing Him. Their public claims of resurrection in defiance of the authorities. All they had to do is produce the dead body. Did not happen.

Looking at the available evidence, there are only a few conclusions that can be reached concerning the Jesus, and those are that he;
1.Didn't exist.

What credible historian believes that? If they do then they are in a small minority.

2.Might or could have existed.

See above.

3.Did exist.

Majority report.

None of those makes a statement about a "man-god"

Anti supernatural bias. Probably has a lot to do with reputation and book selling as opposed to an honest evaluation of available facts.

Why? Because there is no "man-god" evidence outside of biblical claims.

Biblical claims are multiple sources compiled.

The evidence available only speaks to possibility of the existence of a human - and that's all. Not all historians and scholars agree upon that possible existence.

The majority report has Jesus down as existing. Baptised by John and crucified under Pilate. These are the facts. They are not in dispute. You can minimize all you want. It only means you do not accept the full facts of the majority of experts as it relates to the baptism and death of Jesus. A historical person. Get out of the fog.

It does not matter that you label them "credible", or not.

Create a phantom? Ehrman is a credible scholar. Never said he was not. He has the credentials. Ehrman has a fixed anti supernatural bias which does not allow for resurrection. He has not, as far as i know, explained what happened to the body of Christ utilizing historical method. It is all a mystery to them.

[scaritual]

RiversideRedneck wrote:

<quoted text>
It is not simple fact, dude. It's your opinion.
There's nothing wrong with you having your own opinion.
It also falls under narrative, story, tale, legend, history, recital, account, report, statement, reckoning, score,**inhale**
The necessities of your "proofs" seem quite limited.

The only account of your myth, is the bible. The bible is the only source for your myth.

From Genesis - forward - the entire story is based upon that initial story, which is a myth.

There is no proof that Genesis happened. None.

Your biblical story is believed. That does not make it real.

It falls into the same category as do the Sumerian creation myths, Aboriginal American creation myths, Greek myths etc...

For instance; Consider the Minotaur. Born of a union between Pasiphaë and the Cretan bull that was given by Poseidon. The Minotaur is a famous and supernatural creature of myth. The Palace of Knossos at Crete is an actual known of and verified place, associated with the myth of the Minotaur.

That does not make Pasiphaë that birthed the Minotaur, the Minotaur, the Cretan bull, nor Poseidon real.

Your biblical story falls into that same category.

It is a myth.

[RiversideRedneck]

TheBlackSheep wrote:

<quoted text>
List people who are alive and we can ask.
I have never read a quote from Albert Einstein, saying that he believed that Moses was a real person. Maybe you could produce one?

You ask for a list.
I give you a list.
Now you want a list of live people that "you can ask"
If I were to give you a saying from Einstein about Moses, you'd deny it, saying that you can't ask him about it.

Do you deny George Washington's prayers because you can't ask him?

you're an idiot

[Dave Nelson]

Ooogah Boogah wrote:

<quoted text>
There is nothing random about the chances, but yes, there is a strong likelihood the birth and death of the universe are cyclical events.

How can it die if the energy stays the same?

No random chances, you say. So you believe it is designed?

[Aura Mytha]

RiversideRedneck wrote:

<quoted text>
No, but I'm really starting to see just how blind you atheists are.
Do you "believe" there is no God or gods? Or do you "know" there is no God or gods.
Answer: You BELIEVE there is no God or gods....

I see no reason to believe so I have no belief.

[Ooogah Boogah]

Dave Nelson wrote:

<quoted text>
How can it die if the energy stays the same?
No random chances, you say. So you believe it is designed?

"The Birth and Death" of the Universe is a figurative term, dumb butt.

"Like the Birth and Death" of a political party ... get it? Bet not!!!

Randomness implies a uniformity of probability. When you fall, if you could go up, down, left, right, forward or backward or any of the possible 360 degrees with equal probability, that would be random. But you don't, you always fall toward the center of the earth. How random is that? No, I don't see any evidence of a designer at work beyond the laws of Nature.

[Dave Nelson]

polymath257 wrote:

<quoted text>
They didn't start out as sound. They were EM waves until they got to our detectors. Then our nstruments converted the EM waves to sound waves of the same frequency. But sound waves and EM waves of the same frequency are very different things: the EM waves can travel through space and the sound waves cannot. The human ear can hear (some) sound waves. It cannot detect EM waves.

If they originated in a compressible mass, such liquids, gases, and even plasmas, they produced a sound wave that also generated a corresponding EM wave. Vibrate a piezoelectric crystal. Just the motion of a mechanical wave stresses matter and produces EM. Those electrons pushing against each other.

However, the universe is bouncing varying frequencies all over the place, so you will get harmonics and other wave modifications because of that. But theoretically you can focus on a distant object and filter, and look for patterns.