Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258482 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#117653 Aug 19, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I take a more pragmatic position. For me, the burden of proof lies with whomever wants to change a mind.
Drew Smith wrote:
That doesn't work. Except in those few cases where the description of an entity leads to a logical contradiction, it's not possible to demonstrate that an entity does not exist.

For example, there is no evidence that you could produce to demonstrate that there is *not* a china teapot in orbit around the Sun between the Earth and Mars. Do you seriously think that those who claim that such a teapot exists and those who reject the existence of such a teapot have an equal burden of proof?

Therefore, it is reasonable that the burden of proof would fall upon the person claiming that some particular entity exists, and not on "whomever wants to change a mind".
Yes, I know what you're saying here. It's only reasonable to ask the person making the existential claim to furnish evidence and argument.

I think that you're being a little too concrete here and defining burden too narrowly. It appears that nobody feels any burden about teapots in space one way or the other.

But if you did - if you felt the need to change minds of others about the teapot - there's your burden, and you'd better get busy trying to convince them, whichever side of the issue you choose. For example, if a trillion dollars has been allocated to finding the teapot, those who disagree have the burden to act. Or just sit back and watch.

It is in that sense that I say that the church has the burden of proof - not necessarily to prove that their god exists, but that to convince its detractors that their church should be supported and preserved.

It's only a coincidence that the theists happen to be making the existential claim in this matter. If the situation were reversed, and irreligiosity were in the process of being supplanted by fundamentalism, it would be our burden to act, not theirs.

That's what I mean by pragmatic. The one who wants to change minds has the burden to convince them. When somebody asks me to prove that their god does not exist, my answer isn't the philosophical one that it is impossible. It's the pragmatic one, "Why bother? Your religion is dying out."

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#117654 Aug 19, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
I would agree there has been a shift in ideology on a national level. Perhaps there is a few more non believers than yesterday. One thing you fail to understand. Christianity has deep roots in this country. Much deeper than you can imagine.
Why do think that you can imagine it, but I can't?
Eagle12 wrote:
When you look at an oak tree you are only seeing half the tree. The other half is unseen and deeply penetrates the earth. So powerful are these roots they can bust up reinforced concrete.
On what basis do you assume that an oak represents your religion better than an overgrowth of weeds?
Eagle12 wrote:
In your efforts to cut back the tree. You are only strengthening it. The root system goes deeper. The limbs become healthier and more vibrant. It’s survivability becomes greater. That is exactly what atheism has done. Trimmed back on the tree and made it stronger.[!QUOTE]

I don't think so. Your church is becoming less influential as it is increasingly being seen as cruel and wrong.

[QUOTE who="Eagle12"]You can’t eliminate Christianity in this country.
That's not the goal. The hope is to confine Christianity's influence to the lives of those that choose it and welcome it, meaning making the church legally and socially irrelevant. We don't want its bible based values such as supernaturalism, antiscientism, atheophobia and homophobia to be informing either the law or majority opinion.

I think we can get that.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#117655 Aug 19, 2012
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
Noah didn't have a rope on deck. I don't even think he was able to watch your foolish ILK claw along the sides of the ark in their last desperate moments of begging.
noah have never existed the ark have never existed and there ware no flood

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#117657 Aug 19, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
There is no hell, just the fear of it. And the fear of hell is for anybody not smart enough to reject the unsupported and self-serving claims of the priestly class. If you are too afraid to question that claim, they own you, and you live believing that you are being watched and judged by an angry god that built a torture pit and a master Inquisitor those he chooses to torture. Hence, your post.
Hell is for you.
Eagle12 wrote:
Yes I do believe there is a hell out there somewhere. I don’t plan on going.
It's not really up to you, is it?
Eagle12 wrote:
I believe in God because I know for a fact that he is real. Not imaginative but real. There is no atheist on the earth past or present that could convince me otherwise. I don’t need proof, I know beyond any doubt he is real.
There is no way to know that. What you are is certain and closed minded, not knowing.
Eagle12 wrote:
Proving God? No one can prove God to you.
I didn't ask you to. It's not an issue for me.
Eagle12 wrote:
The spirit of God is something you have to experience, on your own. No one can do it for you. You would have to willing to take that step and that is the problem for you atheist.
There is no problem here except your church.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#117658 Aug 19, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I reported you to topix
and i reported your abuse of the report system

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#117659 Aug 19, 2012
Just Results wrote:
It thrills me when I've upset an atheist
Your religion is useless.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#117660 Aug 19, 2012
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
Dammit! I tried not to laugh at this, but I did anyway. Ya got me. Happy?
Yes. I posted it so that you would laugh. I'm glad you liked it.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#117661 Aug 19, 2012
Just Results wrote:
Noah didn't have a rope on deck. I don't even think he was able to watch your foolish ILK claw along the sides of the ark in their last desperate moments of begging.
If we stipulate to its existence for the moment, we can conclude that your god is also a failure. It created angels to worship it, and a third walked out. He hates sin, and created sinful man.

Then, when he wanted to improve mankind, he repopulated the earth using the EXACT SAME breeding stock. And everything turned out the same.

Besides being monumentally stupid, it was horrifically cruel. Rather than remove them from the earth as he allegedly place them there - perhaps by crossing his arms and wiggling his nose - he elected to drown them slowly, no doubt a terrifying scenario.

And he allegedly intends to torture those who don't feed his ego - apparently a supermassive black hole of need.

You go ahead and worship that. I can't. It's not good enough by a lot.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#117662 Aug 19, 2012
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
You were going to report that post because it "crossed a line". Now that you (finally) realize that abomination was written by another supposed Christian, you don't quite know how to react, do you? Are you still going to report it? If you feel that offended, as you have obviously stated, shouldn't you report it no matter what the source? Your move.
Obviously, he did not report it. Just Results is one of his socks.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#117663 Aug 19, 2012
Just Results wrote:
This physical threat will be posted on another thread if you don't mind. I needed this as an example to show someone how evil atheists are.
Anon wrote:
If you're looking for evil, I can provide you with some. Try post #34 on the James Holmes thread where you wished someone beheaded in a fatal car crash. Easy enough to verify. I'll try to post a link, but past experience has shown they don't show up.
From http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TB4V0KF... :

"You should be ashamed of yourself for being a vital part of teaching people to stray away from the teachings of the Bible. I am so thrilled that smelly greasy shit like you will endure thermal and mechanical tortures for eternity in Hell. Hopefully you are involved in a tragic metal crushing car accident, resulting in your beheadedness, you awful demented dehumanizing sack of trash."

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#117664 Aug 19, 2012
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
If you're looking for evil, I can provide you with some. Try post #34 on the James Holmes thread where you wished someone beheaded in a fatal car crash. Easy enough to verify. I'll try to post a link, but past experience has shown they don't show up.
FYI, I posted the Just Results comment, "This physical threat will be posted on another thread if you don't mind. I needed this as an example to show someone how evil atheists are" followed by his beheading comment on multiple threads:

http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TSHQAVD...
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TOCO8TE...
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
Skeptic

Thetford, UK

#117666 Aug 19, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I reported you to topix
why don't you pray for someone to care?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#117667 Aug 19, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
People there are rules on this channel. There are lines not to be crossed. Because one is an atheist is no excuse.
But being a theist is an excuse with you, right? Or did you report Just Result for making the comment? I didn't, at least not to the Topix moderators. I did report it to everybody who reads the most active and most current atheist threads.

Because I don't want that post expunged. I want Just Results to post what is in his Christian heart for all to read.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#117668 Aug 19, 2012
Anon wrote:
You were going to report that post because it "crossed a line". Now that you (finally) realize that abomination was written by another supposed Christian, you don't quite know how to react, do you? Are you still going to report it? If you feel that offended, as you have obviously stated, shouldn't you report it no matter what the source? Your move.
Beautiful. The hypocrisy is freely flowing today. Just Results wants to re-post the posts he doesn't like on other threads even while calling people greasy excrement and wishing them a beheading followed by torture, and Eagle finds such comments reportable if made by freethinkers.

“The eye has it...”

Since: Jan 12

Russell's teapot.

#117669 Aug 19, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
But being a theist is an excuse with you, right? Or did you report Just Result for making the comment? I didn't, at least not to the Topix moderators. I did report it to everybody who reads the most active and most current atheist threads.
Because I don't want that post expunged. I want Just Results to post what is in his Christian heart for all to read.
I won't post the PM, it was pretty much what he said out in the thread, which was mentioned a couple times, but "Just Results" PM'd me to tell me I was going to burn in hell and just wanted me to know.

LULZ...

This was after he had announced he was going to PM me to tell me I was going to hell.

He's consistently ill, consistently "hellfire and brimstone". He's a winner.

And he loves me.

“LOL Really?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#117670 Aug 19, 2012
beheadedness ??
djeter808

Roslindale, MA

#117671 Aug 19, 2012
Dei igitur essentia est suum esse. Hanc autem sublimem veritatem Moyses a Domino est edoctus, qui, cum quaereret a Domino, dicens: Si dixerint ad inc filii Israel: Quad est nomen ejus? quid dicam cis? Dominus respondit: Ego sum qui sum; sic dices filiis Israel: Qui est inisit inc ad vos [Exodus 3:13-14], ostendens suum proprium nomen esse: Qui est
(Summa contra Gentiles 1.22.9-10).

["Therefore the essence of God is his being. The Lord taught Moses this sublime truth when he asked the Lord: If the children of Israel ask me what is his name? what shall I say to them? The Lord replied: I am who am ... say this to the children of Israel: He Who Is has sent me to you, showing that his proper name is He who is."]

St. Thomas himself did not succeed in condensing in one single truth the whole content of these words of Exodus. Or rather, it is we who are unable to see at once all their aspects. When he says, Ego sum qui sum, God affirms his own existence as God. He does not say: Know that there is a God, but rather: Know that I am, and that my name is He Who Is. So that the people of Israel would not think that he is a new God still unknown to them, the revelation continues:“Say this to the children of Israel: Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and thus I am to be invoked for all future generations”(Exodus 3:15).

Atheists make a great fuss about how God does not exist. This claim, they think, is at odds with what those who believe in God hold. But is it? What kind of God do the atheists have in mind? And can someone who believes in God not actually feel happy to say that God does not exist?

Most of what atheists claim when they deny God's existence is also denied to him by Catholics and Thomas Aquinas when they use the scriptures to define God's mystery.

Read the article to fully understand: http://payingattentiontothesky.com/2011/02/14...

dj

“The eye has it...”

Since: Jan 12

Russell's teapot.

#117672 Aug 19, 2012
River Tam wrote:
beheadedness ??
This new and rapidly evolving stage of language we're in the midst of is maddening at times, I'm guessing that's to imply a scene at the aftermath of a beheading, as in the righteous people looking at the person afterwards and making a comment like; "man, look at his state of beheadedness, he deserved that so much, praise be"

Among his crowd, anyway.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#117673 Aug 19, 2012
River Tam wrote:
beheadedness ??
Operation anti-beheadedness

http://pleonast.com/users/megalexandros/galle...

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#117674 Aug 19, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>Five billion years is a hell of a long time. To think it burned for 10 million years without even a flicker is amazing.
Smaller stars last even longer.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm...

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