Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 244744 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Since: Sep 08

United States

#233404 Jul 24, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> You are asking me to measure the immeasurable to justify your belief it can be. The initial expansion from an infinitesimal is theoretical and not actually measurable, since it expanded from every point in space and every point appears to be the initial expansion point. At 10-^37 seconds into the expansion, a phase transition caused *cosmic inflation, during which the universe grew exponentially.
See Space expands
This is just like an inside-out black hole metric—it has a zero in the dt component on a fixed radius sphere called the cosmological horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_%28cos...
So you see you still have to deal with a cosmological horizon, where beyond this point it's infinite, and we can only measure the observable horizon.
Kewl, Mr. Einstein^4, you set up a bank shot to put you in the side pocket.

Every point in space? From a singularity?

Let's get real infinitestimal, mathematical, and conceptual.

Remember my hex plotting of points in a plane or volume?

Let's get to the ultimate infinitestimally smallest point. Your starting point for expansion. You can't expand unless you have someplace to start, in the real world, anyhow. We will start on a plane.

Draw a point, Sparky. How many directions can you then proceed in? Well, lets draw the same size points around it. You will get 6. Now you can take a step. Now draw points around that step you took. How many directions can you go now without turning around? Work your way out. Keep in mind that first step started motion. Also keep in mind you can't turn around on a single point. Something about radius and pi. What is pi times an infinitestimally small point and the path width you will have to follow from it?

Now proceed and create your universe by going 3D. Don't forget the 7/8th base of height between the centers of your theoretical smallest points, and thus incremental distance. Plays hell with a continuum. All it takes is paper and pencil and an understanding.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#233405 Jul 24, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> You are asking me to measure the immeasurable to justify your belief it can be. The initial expansion from an infinitesimal is theoretical and not actually measurable, since it expanded from every point in space and every point appears to be the initial expansion point. At 10-^37 seconds into the expansion, a phase transition caused *cosmic inflation, during which the universe grew exponentially.
See Space expands
This is just like an inside-out black hole metric—it has a zero in the dt component on a fixed radius sphere called the cosmological horizon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_%28cos...
So you see you still have to deal with a cosmological horizon, where beyond this point it's infinite, and we can only measure the observable horizon.
Wow. That must have looked really impressive to you when you copied it.

Trouble is, it has nothing to do with my question.

I didn't ask you to measure anything.

You claim the universe has expanded from a small finite extension to an infinite distance.

And Big Bang theory says that expansion has been occuring roughly 13.8 billion years.

Without measuring anything, you should be able to tell me what average rate of expansion is required to expand an infinite distance in 13.8 billion years.

Or,

"A" x 13.8 billion = Infinity

What is "A"?

Do you not understand speed x time = distance?

Why will you not tell us "A"?

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#233406 Jul 24, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow. That must have looked really impressive to you when you copied it.
Trouble is, it has nothing to do with my question.
I didn't ask you to measure anything.
You claim the universe has expanded from a small finite extension to an infinite distance.
And Big Bang theory says that expansion has been occuring roughly 13.8 billion years.
Without measuring anything, you should be able to tell me what average rate of expansion is required to expand an infinite distance in 13.8 billion years.
Or,
"A" x 13.8 billion = Infinity
What is "A"?
Do you not understand speed x time = distance?
Why will you not tell us "A"?
You're too daft to see I answered that question.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#233407 Jul 24, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
An immeasurably small thing became an immeasurably large thing.
How hard is it to grasp the reality of it?
We can only measure the universe since light became possible after the Inflationary epoch, and after this the redshift indicates faster than light expansion for 13.7 billion years.
It is possible space was spatially infinite after the Inflationary epoch, we simply have no way to measure it.
See..
http://www.spacetimesociety.org/Monton2.html
I get it. You are saying a very small thing became extended to an infinite distance

But, as everyone but you knows, achieving an infinite by a sequence of finite addition is impossible.

That's the only kink in your theory - it's impossible.

Hope you can work around it.

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#233408 Jul 24, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
Please define willfully ignorant for us.
Are you willfully ignorant of Islam of Judaism of Taoism?
Are you willfully ignorant of modern science?
Are you willfully ignorant of fossils, of dinosaurs?
I do appreciate you sharing your mythology but that's all it is - mythology.
I challenge you to provide evidence that your God is the only true God in a way religions other than yours cannot do or provide evidence that your holy book is true in a way that religions other than yours cannot do with their holy books.
Now... just how willfully ignorant are you?
Have a great day unless you've made other plans.
willfully ignorant in your case, is that you're here to attack Christianity rather than Islam or Judaism or Taoism.....

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#233409 Jul 24, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
I get it. You are saying a very small thing became extended to an infinite distance
But, as everyone but you knows, achieving an infinite by a sequence of finite addition is impossible.
That's the only kink in your theory - it's impossible.
Hope you can work around it.
Your belief that it is impossible has been observed extensively. But it doesn't mean it's impossible, it means it was infinite the whole time.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#233410 Jul 24, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Your belief that it is impossible has been observed extensively. But it doesn't mean it's impossible, it means it was infinite the whole time.
You changed your story again.

It could not have been infinite the whole time, because you already explained "infintesimally small" in relation to the birth of the universe. Some describe the beginning as "infinitely dense", but that is not "infinitely large". It's also not infinitely dense either, but that's another story.

Now, you have the problem of something very small in extent, "infintesimally small", expanding to a distance that is "infinite".

We can estimate the elapsed time at 13.8 billion years.

So your problem is "A" x 13.8 billion = Infinity, where "A" is the average rate of expansion.

What is "A"?

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#233411 Jul 24, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
You changed your story again.
It could not have been infinite the whole time, because you already explained "infintesimally small" in relation to the birth of the universe. Some describe the beginning as "infinitely dense", but that is not "infinitely large". It's also not infinitely dense either, but that's another story.
Now, you have the problem of something very small in extent, "infintesimally small", expanding to a distance that is "infinite".
We can estimate the elapsed time at 13.8 billion years.
So your problem is "A" x 13.8 billion = Infinity, where "A" is the average rate of expansion.
What is "A"?
An infinitesimal is infinitely small, Buck.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#233412 Jul 24, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:

"An immeasurably small thing became an immeasurably large thing."

Aura Mytha wrote:

"...it was infinite the whole time."
----------

Bwahahahhahahahahahhahahhahaha hahahahahhahahahahhahahahahaha hahhahahahhahahahhah....whoa.
----------

Buck: "A finite cannot become infinite by addition"

Aura: "It started infinite"

Buck: "But Big Bang theory says it started small"

Aura: "That's right. It started infintesimally small"

Buck: "But a small finite cannot become infinite by addition"

Aura: "It started infinite"

Buck: "You said it started very small. How can it be very small but extend an infinite distance?"

Aura: "Because you can't measure it"

Buck: "What if you had an infinitely long measuring tape?"

Aura:...scratches his head...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#233413 Jul 24, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>An infinitesimal is infinitely small, Buck.
So what?

Infinitely small still has to have its components traverse infinite distance to expand to the infinite universe you claim.

Infinitley small just means your expansion has to start from zero instead of some small finite number.

You still have the same problem.

"A" x 13.8 billion = Infinity

What is "A"? Are you afraid to answer?

Meanwhile, if something is "infinitely small", what if you cut it in half?

It would be half as large, and also equally large.

Which means nothing can be infinitely small.

Any such computation involving "infinitely small" cannot represent anything in the actual universe. Neither can "infinitely large".

A computational foundation where "less than" and "equal to" are not contradictory is not a representation of reality.

An infinite universe is impossible in reality.

In your head? That's another story.
CunningLinguist

Apopka, FL

#233414 Jul 24, 2014
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a question for you.
Take two prople that survived to old age. One followed the expectations established for him by the current society, the Well Respected Man of that old song. The other bruised and battered and very experienced in the emotions of life. The uppers and the downers of it. Let's say they tasted a lot of it flavors.
Then they both die.
Which was the failure?
Neither

One for you...

Can god commit suicide?

Since: Sep 08

United States

#233415 Jul 24, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>An infinitesimal is infinitely small, Buck.
You are speaking incoherently. He beat the shit out of you.

Tell us, oh in the know one, just where does the infinitestimal become finite enough to measure?

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#233416 Jul 24, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
Aura Mytha wrote:
"An immeasurably small thing became an immeasurably large thing."
Aura Mytha wrote:
"...it was infinite the whole time."
----------
Bwahahahhahahahahahhahahhahaha hahahahahhahahahahhahahahahaha hahhahahahhahahahhah....whoa.
----------
Buck: "A finite cannot become infinite by addition"
Aura: "It started infinite"
Buck: "But Big Bang theory says it started small"
Aura: "That's right. It started infintesimally small"
Buck: "But a small finite cannot become infinite by addition"
Aura: "It started infinite"
Buck: "You said it started very small. How can it be very small but extend an infinite distance?"
Aura: "Because you can't measure it"
Buck: "What if you had an infinitely long measuring tape?"
Aura:...scratches his head...
Making sht up doesn't help you.
Infinitely small and infinitly large have something in common, gee I wonder what that is?
In the universe case, an infinitesimal is infinitely small , infinitely dense and infinitely hot and with infinite mass is what became the observable universe.
But you can't say there were not an infinite number of infinitesimals.
CunningLinguist

Apopka, FL

#233417 Jul 24, 2014
waaasssuuup wrote:
<quoted text>
willfully ignorant in your case, is that you're here to attack Christianity rather than Islam or Judaism or Taoism.....
Atheism requires as much faith as religion.(Thread title in Atheism forum)

Why are you Christian in a atheist forum.

Having a few doubts about your faith.

You are here to demean, prothelitize, and ridicule atheists.

Visit religious forums, join Christian mingle , and revel in your mutual fantasies.

"I cannot believe in the immortality of the soul.... No, all this talk of an existence for us, as individuals, beyond the grave is wrong. It is born of our tenacity of life... our desire to go on living... our dread of coming to an end." ~Thomas Edison

"It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand." ~Mark Twain

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#233418 Jul 24, 2014
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are speaking incoherently. He beat the shit out of you.
Tell us, oh in the know one, just where does the infinitestimal become finite enough to measure?
Theoretically the Planck length, bit we can't measure anything even that small.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_length

Since: Sep 08

United States

#233419 Jul 24, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Making sht up doesn't help you.
Infinitely small and infinitly large have something in common, gee I wonder what that is?
In the universe case, an infinitesimal is infinitely small , infinitely dense and infinitely hot and with infinite mass is what became the observable universe.
But you can't say there were not an infinite number of infinitesimals.
If it is dense it has volume that can be measured. Mass is notorious for having volume. If it can be measured it is finite.

Why don't you just admit infinite is something beyond your ability to identify instead of representing it as a something of value?

You are trapped in math sophistry. Welcome to modern math head physics. You can find the exit door by dropping a hammer on your toe.

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#233420 Jul 24, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism requires as much faith as religion.(Thread title in Atheism forum)
Why are you Christian in a atheist forum.
Having a few doubts about your faith.
You are here to demean, prothelitize, and ridicule atheists.
Visit religious forums, join Christian mingle , and revel in your mutual fantasies.
"I cannot believe in the immortality of the soul.... No, all this talk of an existence for us, as individuals, beyond the grave is wrong. It is born of our tenacity of life... our desire to go on living... our dread of coming to an end." ~Thomas Edison
"It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand." ~Mark Twain
i'm here to reveal that there is no such thing as 'atheism'; there's only gaytheism, which is a religion of satanic origin:-)

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#233421 Jul 24, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism requires as much faith as religion.(Thread title in Atheism forum)
Why are you Christian in a atheist forum.
Having a few doubts about your faith.
You are here to demean, prothelitize, and ridicule atheists.
Visit religious forums, join Christian mingle , and revel in your mutual fantasies.
"I cannot believe in the immortality of the soul.... No, all this talk of an existence for us, as individuals, beyond the grave is wrong. It is born of our tenacity of life... our desire to go on living... our dread of coming to an end." ~Thomas Edison
"It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand." ~Mark Twain
BTW - why quote ignorant dead people to the informed and living???

"i cannot believe that self-righteous people like tommy ed and mark 'the gay' twain would endevour to speak on things they cannot possibly explain" - the great 'wasup' of topix!

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#233422 Jul 24, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Making sht up doesn't help you.
Infinitely small and infinitly large have something in common, gee I wonder what that is?
In the universe case, an infinitesimal is infinitely small , infinitely dense and infinitely hot and with infinite mass is what became the observable universe.
But you can't say there were not an infinite number of infinitesimals.
That doesn't help you. The extent in distance of the "infintessimal" would be 0.

The "infinitely small" has to expand to reach infinitely large - according to your assertion of the universe infinite in dimension.

It doesn't matter where you start to expand. The expansion occurs for 13.8 billion years, and you say it reaches infinite distance.

So,....

What is the rate of expansion required to reach infinite distance in 13.8 billion years?

You can start at "infinitely small" if you like. Start anywhere you want.

"A" x 13.8 billion = Infinite

What is "A"?

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#233423 Jul 24, 2014
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
If it is dense it has volume that can be measured. Mass is notorious for having volume. If it can be measured it is finite.
Why don't you just admit infinite is something beyond your ability to identify instead of representing it as a something of value?
You are trapped in math sophistry. Welcome to modern math head physics. You can find the exit door by dropping a hammer on your toe.
You again are here pronouncing the ability to do what is beyond the ability of science.
You are trying to tell me a universe in a infinitesimal state of existence , in which time nor space has yet to exist can be given a finite mass.The volume of a infinitesimal is so small it cannot be measured, it effectively cannot be distinguished from zero.

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