Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258512 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#232287 Jul 11, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't feel so bad... you bore me as well and... yes I demand you prove it!
However, there is no getting around the simple truth of it: all babies are atheists.
How could it be otherwise? In fact, all children are atheists until they reach an age where they can truly understand religious doctrine, which will mean well into their teens. Children can mimic their parents in prayer, for example,
by closing their eyes and clasping their hands together, and repeating some
words that they don't understand. Of course even toddler-praying can't
happen until a child reaches the age of speech.
Beyond praying though, there is so much more to consider when parents
proclaim that their little ones are Christian or Jewish or Hindu or Muslim
and so on. To say that someone is "Christian" is to say that the someone
understands:(1) the story of the life of Jesus as told in the Bible; (2)
the concepts of heaven and hell; (3) the concept of "faith" in an invisible
entity; (4) sin; (5) forgiveness; (6) the Triune God and (7) communion.
But whatever religious doctrines are held to be infallible by
any religion, they are so held by adults only. Only adults can begin to
grasp the concepts involved (and often convoluted) in religious belief.
Therefore only adults can be religious. Therefore all babies are atheists.
__________

You are a bald-faced liar.

"Atheism" is not "a-religious". You can be a-religious and also not an atheist. You can be a theist, and have no religion.

You are equating religion with theism. That is erroneous, and renders your entire nonsensical rant..., well, nonsensical.

Nobody is born an atheist. You don't know what the hell you are talking about, and you should just shut your stupid mouth.
__________

Atheism, from the Greek a-theos ("no-god"), is the philosophical position that God doesn't exist. It is distinguished from agnosticism, the argument that it is impossible to know whether God exists or not (Academic American Encyclopedia).

Atheism, system of thought developed around the denial of God's existence. Atheism, so defined, first appeared during the Enlightenment, the age of reason (Random House Encyclopedia).

Atheism is the doctrine that there is no God.(Oxford Companion to Philosophy).

Atheism (Greek, a-[private prefix]+ theos, god) is the view that there is no divine being, no God (Dictionary of Philosophy, Thomas Mautner, Editor).

Atheism is the belief that God doesn't exist (The World Book Encyclopedia).

Atheism, commonly speaking, is the denial of God. Theism (from the Greek theos, God) is belief in or conceptualization of God, atheism is the rejection of such belief or conceptualization.In the ancient world atheism was rarely a clearly formulated position (Encyclopedia Americana).

Atheism, the critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or spiritual beings. Atheism is to be distinguished from agnosticism, which leaves open whether there is a god or not, professing to find the question unanswerable, for the atheist, the non-existence of god is a certainty (The New Encyclopedia Britannia).

According to the most usual definition, an atheist is a person who maintains that there is no godÂ…(rejects eccentric definitions of the word)(The Encyclopedia of Philosophy).

Atheism is the doctrine that God does not exist, that belief in the existence of God is a false belief. The word God here refers to a divine being regarded as the independent creator of the world, a being superlatively powerful, wise and good (Encyclopedia of Religion).

Atheism (Greek and Roman): Atheism is a dogmatic creed, consisting in the denial of every kind of supernatural power. Atheism has not often been seriously maintained at any period of civilized thought (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics-Vol II).

Atheism denies the existence of deity (Funk and Wagnall's New Encyclopedia-Vol I).

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#232288 Jul 11, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
NEVER MIND!
< good advice on your posts>
At least we know how you found Jesus!
We can feel pity for your other experiences whilst incarcerated and tormented by inappropriate attention from some that don't share your Christian sexual views.
My sexual views are not Christian, RubbingApenis.

You are a moron. I don't mean that as an insult. You are, factually, a moron.
CunningLinguist

Howey In The Hills, FL

#232289 Jul 11, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't feel so bad... you bore me as well and... yes I demand you prove it!

Atheism denies the existence of deity (Funk and Wagnall's New Encyclopedia-Vol I).
My my such unnecessary vitriol, replete with juvenile insults.

You're a real big on winning arguments and keeping a tally of your wins this one belongs in your loss category which I doubt you count.. your narcissistic ego could never permit a loss.

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." ~Thomas Jefferson

You are unworthy of further reply and are dismissed.

And what if we picked the wrong religion? Every week, we're just making God madder and madder!

God: Thou hast forsaken My Church!
Homer:[in fear] Uh, kind-of... b-but...
God: But what!
Homer: I'm not a bad guy! I work hard, and I love my kids. So why should I spend half my Sunday hearing about how I'm going to Hell?
God:[pause] Hmm... You've got a point there.
~Homer Simpson

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#232290 Jul 11, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
My my such unnecessary vitriol, replete with juvenile insults.
You're a real big on winning arguments and keeping a tally of your wins this one belongs in your loss category which I doubt you count.. your narcissistic ego could never permit a loss.
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as His father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." ~Thomas Jefferson
You are unworthy of further reply and are dismissed.
And what if we picked the wrong religion? Every week, we're just making God madder and madder!
God: Thou hast forsaken My Church!
Homer:[in fear] Uh, kind-of... b-but...
God: But what!
Homer: I'm not a bad guy! I work hard, and I love my kids. So why should I spend half my Sunday hearing about how I'm going to Hell?
God:[pause] Hmm... You've got a point there.
~Homer Simpson
I won this one. I win it every time one of you atheist pukes brings it up.

Atheism is not a lack of belief. It is a belief, no less than theism is a belief.

You need to support your stupid assertion that babies are atheists by explaining how it is true that babies have encountered the assertion of a god and rejected it.

I don't believe you can do that. Thus, you are simply a liar.

The attempt to dilute the term to a lack of belief is a cowardly, dishonest attempt to shirk the responsibility of making an argument for a position.

Why are atheists so cowardly and dishonest?

Don't bother. It's a rhetorical question.
CunningLinguist

Howey In The Hills, FL

#232291 Jul 11, 2014
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>AKA a variant presentation of the Stockholm Syndrome.
Most religions fall into this category anyway!

Theists do not think this through, or refuse to think lest they disturb their faith.

How can any rituals done over/for/around a baby affect
the baby's understanding of the world around it?

The infant doesn't understand language or geography or personal property or income taxes or.....anything at all, really.

To then present that baby to a priest and after some water sprinkles and some solemn words say that the baby is now Catholic, means that the baby magically understands the difference between a venal sin and a mortal sin.

Can't you see how silly that is?

The baby understands nothing more than was understood before the religious ceremony. And, since the infant in question does not understand, let alone believe, in any kind of God at all, it is an atheist -- a being without religious belief.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#232292 Jul 11, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
It's proof you can learn under the power of my brilliance.
...and when you wake up, you will not remember any of this. And you will thank me.

3...2...1...

Buck. Buck, wake up.
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
You're welcome, maam.
Ah, crap.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#232293 Jul 11, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
You are saying a presently non-existent future observer in the presently non-existent future time exists in physical reality.
You are saying a hypothetical calculation means something calculated physically exists.
That is wrong, and that is stupid.
No infinite can exist in physical reality. The one you just described is a theoretical model; it is imagination. You can have all the physical infinities in your imagination you want.
In physical reality, we are a bit more limited.
Ok, sure, you've said all your insults.

I don't remember what you said for pi. Pi is a quantity that never ends, right? That's not infinite to you? Or some infinite value?

Question 2: Einstein's equations on general relativity and approaching the speed of light. You can attempt it - if you try, it requires ever increasing energy, mass and elongation of time. So the first two become infinite values. I'm not sure about the third. How are those not infinite?

Question 3: How do you not say the expansion of the universe is infinite if it continues forever? I said "if" so there's assumptions in there, not "will," so if you would kindly go off that assumption.

Question 4: From my readings - and I'm no physicist - I lean toward the universe will continue expanding till all matter is too far away from each other, everything will eventually dissipate into energy, the universe will grow cold, and eventually after some unknowable period of time, a new expansion phase will begin b/c of some unknown quantum fluctuation.

So I'm not asking you to critique that premise, I already know it's speculative (you're welcome to re-point that out if it makes you feel comfortable) but to assume it and subsequently explain why there is no infinite in that. It seems pretty infinite to me - unlimited expansion until all matter becomes energy, all energy dissipates, nothing ensues, renewed expansion phase.

I mean, if it were true, then we would already have had some unknowable number of expansions to nothingness. How can you not conclude that unknowable number is not infinite?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#232294 Jul 11, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, he might have been a little smarter than waaasssuuup.
That's not surprising. After all, you're talking about a stupid cat.

Most inanimate objects are more intelligent than waaasssuuup.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#232295 Jul 11, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Not being an atheist doesn't mean one is a theist.
You claimed to know babies have no belief in deities.
Back it up.
They don't. They only learn such beliefs from social interactions. To assume babies know what you "know" is to project yourself on to them.

And I'm not claiming that they are subsequently atheists. I'm not sure what to call babies, except immature and developing humans with immature and developing brains.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#232296 Jul 11, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
What is the finite amount that immediately precedes infinity?
Take that amount, add one. Is the result finite or infinite? Answer: Finite
OK, go to the next larger amount. Add one. Is the result finite or infinite? Answer: Finite
OK, go to the next larger amount. Add one. Is the result finite or infinite? Answer: Finite
OK, go to the next larger amount. Add one. Is the result finite or infinite? Answer: Finite
OK, go to the next larger amount. Add one. Is the result finite or infinite? Answer: Finite
OK, go to the next larger amount. Add one. Is the result finite or infinite? Answer: Finite
OK, go to the next larger amount. Add one. Is the result finite or infinite? Answer: Finite
OK, go to the next larger amount. Add one. Is the result finite or infinite? Answer: Finite
OK, go to the next larger amount. Add one. Is the result finite or infinite? Answer: Finite
OK, go to the next larger amount. Add one. Is the result finite or infinite? Answer: Finite
OK, go to the next larger amount. Add one. Is the result finite or infinite? Answer: Finite
OK, go to the next larger amount. Add one. Is the result finite or infinite? Answer: Finite
OK, go to the next larger amount. Add one. Is the result finite or infinite? Answer: Finite
__________
Please explain how this repetition gets you beyond a finite value.
By never stopping.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#232297 Jul 11, 2014
number four wrote:
<quoted text>It truly is a sign that the apocalypse is nigh , when the the theists exhorts the atheist .." Come on , get back to reality . "
I'm just trying to keep you from a life of ridicule .
No worries, I won't do anything until my job is secure.

Uhm...so...how are you?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#232298 Jul 11, 2014
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>I'd be fascinated.
You do publish, shoot me a link?
Won't be for another 6 years or so. Tenure takes time...assuming I get off my lazy ass, leave topix and start publishing.

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#232299 Jul 11, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>

an atheist -- a being without religious belief.
You changed the definition again.

By your definition, a theist could be an atheist.

You are a moron, RubbingApenis.
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#232300 Jul 11, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Won't be for another 6 years or so. Tenure takes time...assuming I get off my lazy ass, leave topix and start publishing.
To hell with academia. Publish a book on the paranormal that ignites the masses and you'll be a millionaire/scadillionare almost overnight. There are a lot of primitive minds out there just waiting to be exploited. Hell, I'd do it in a heartbeat...

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#232301 Jul 11, 2014
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
To hell with academia. Publish a book on the paranormal that ignites the masses and you'll be a millionaire/scadillionare almost overnight. There are a lot of primitive minds out there just waiting to be exploited. Hell, I'd do it in a heartbeat...
Ok. And one on how God gave humans souls!

Yeah!

(I am just not that corrupt - do you know how long it takes to write a book that you know to be lies?)

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#232302 Jul 11, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, sure, you've said all your insults.
I don't remember what you said for pi. Pi is a quantity that never ends, right? That's not infinite to you? Or some infinite value?
Question 2: Einstein's equations on general relativity and approaching the speed of light. You can attempt it - if you try, it requires ever increasing energy, mass and elongation of time. So the first two become infinite values. I'm not sure about the third. How are those not infinite?
Question 3: How do you not say the expansion of the universe is infinite if it continues forever? I said "if" so there's assumptions in there, not "will," so if you would kindly go off that assumption.
Question 4: From my readings - and I'm no physicist - I lean toward the universe will continue expanding till all matter is too far away from each other, everything will eventually dissipate into energy, the universe will grow cold, and eventually after some unknowable period of time, a new expansion phase will begin b/c of some unknown quantum fluctuation.
So I'm not asking you to critique that premise, I already know it's speculative (you're welcome to re-point that out if it makes you feel comfortable) but to assume it and subsequently explain why there is no infinite in that. It seems pretty infinite to me - unlimited expansion until all matter becomes energy, all energy dissipates, nothing ensues, renewed expansion phase.
I mean, if it were true, then we would already have had some unknowable number of expansions to nothingness. How can you not conclude that unknowable number is not infinite?
No quantity representing a physical entity can be infinite.

If expansion continues unending, the expansion at any point is finite in extent. The infinite extent is not realizable. It is theoretical.

Unknowable quantity is not the same as infinite quantity.

"Infinite" and "quantity" is a contradiction.

For an expansion to be infinite in extent, it would have to be infinite in extent before expansion. Any expanding finite can never be anything but finite.

"Finite +1,+2,+3,..." will be finite at any point and any time.

If an expansion could continue for "infinite time", it could be infinite in extent.

But of course, that is circular reasoning, i.e., given an infinite, you can have an infinite.

As I have pointed out, physicists use the term "infinite" indiscriminately and erroneously to represent ideas.

Ideas are not physical reality. Physical reality and an infinite are contradictions.

To consider an infinite value representing reality destroys any rational computational basis for reality.

This is because portions of the value of an infinite are also infinite.

Therefore, "less than" and "equal to" would not be contradictory. In reality, "less than" and "equal to" are contradictory. Therefore, infinity cannot represent reality.



“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#232303 Jul 11, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
If you can measure its parts, it cannot be infinite.

__________
Pfft.
Did you learn that in prison?

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#232304 Jul 11, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
No quantity representing a physical entity can be infinite.
Any quantity + more quantity could be infinite.
If the universe is infinite, it was infinite as a singularity.
If there were an infinite staircase, you could count steps going up, till you decided to turn back.
How much of infinity you counted, is irrelevant, because infinity is not a pie.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#232305 Jul 11, 2014
I gave you an example of an infinite distance that physically exists, in reality. It exists because of the speed of expansion of the universe, the speed of light and the distance across space.
All three of these things physically exist in our world, not just the physicist's theoretical musings.

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#232306 Jul 11, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
It's difficult for me to imagine stupidity on your level. So, thank you for this display.
pearls...swine...

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