Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258484 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#229512 May 20, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact that every culture contains a belief in a supernatural being(s) is profound. The fact that ONE God stands out only accentuates that profundity.
The fact that every culture embraces a common fundamental morality is also profound.
Both of these are a common thread of conscience, distinct from all other animal species that give evidence to the existence of a God.
*You may want to check your assertion that any other animals possess a morality.
The fact that civilisations look for excuses and reasons beyond their understanding is typical of a lack of knowledge and the source of god myths. I do not really see the hebrew/christian/muslim god standing out any more than any other god but more thrown about in anger by those who worship that myth and are not willing to accept that other people can have alternative beliefs.

Yes the fact that every culture embraces a common fundamental morality explains the beginning civilisation. Following that founding of civilisation comes the search for why, lack of scientific knowledge results in guesswork and voila, gods are born.

And this is where you opt for religious dogma over fact. Psychological tests have shown that several animal species, most apes, all pig species, some birds etc have their morality, it may not be human morality but morality none the less. Most social animals, dolphins, rats, dogs etc display various degrees of morality, they know right from wrong as appertains to their own social group. But just like so many other scientific advances throughout the centuries, it will probably take religious institutions several hundred years to accept the facts.

Claiming humanity to be the evidence of existence of mythology is typical of the lack of understanding I mentioned earlier. What you have is belief in the existence of one particular god, that is belief, not evidence, belief and nothing more. If you actually had evidence do you really think this discussion would have continued for almost 2000 years? Hell no, but if you do come across such evidence then I suggest you publish and become the centrepiece of abrahamic religion throughout the world. Your fame would be immense and you would be rich beyond avarice. Until then please accept that what you have is faith, not evidence.

“You may want to research the subject before making specious comments”

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#229513 May 20, 2014
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
That's true. Welcome back, Kotter.
Hi, thanks

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#229514 May 20, 2014
Divinity Surgeon wrote:
<quoted text>
That sounds lovely, I've never been.
I spend a lot of time there, lovely part of the world and very suitable to my hobby (the Cro Magnon period), so much so I bought a house.

There are quite a lot of northern Europeans, South Africans, antipodeans, Americans and Canadians that have come for a vacation and settled in the area.

I was in the Lascau II cave, with an American couple in the group. I really have no idea why they joined us, it went against everything they believe. The woman tutted and harumped all the way through, spoiling the presentation for everyone and the guy was incredulous that Cro Magnon man were every bit as homo sapien as he is, 35000 years before his god was even thought of. Repeatedly asking for proof of the age of the site and not accepting that proof when it was given.

“too hard to handle”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#229515 May 20, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
A little more definition, there are over 3700 gods documented in human mythology. Many (so called) christians class those who do not believe in their particular god or in their brand of worship or their interpretation of the babble to be atheist.
Also, the fact that morality existed amongst humans (and other higher animals) long before christianity was ever though of tells us that morality it not a christian trait but a human trait.
I was defining what a christian is, ie a christ follower, not promoting or even saying that there is some sort of moral superiority of christianity or christians.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#229516 May 20, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>I spend a lot of time there, lovely part of the world and very suitable to my hobby (the Cro Magnon period), so much so I bought a house.

There are quite a lot of northern Europeans, South Africans, antipodeans, Americans and Canadians that have come for a vacation and settled in the area.

I was in the Lascau II cave, with an American couple in the group. I really have no idea why they joined us, it went against everything they believe. The woman tutted and harumped all the way through, spoiling the presentation for everyone and the guy was incredulous that Cro Magnon man were every bit as homo sapien as he is, 35000 years before his god was even thought of. Repeatedly asking for proof of the age of the site and not accepting that proof when it was given.
American christians I presume.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#229518 May 20, 2014
Rodny wrote:
<quoted text>I definitely agree with you about brainwashing children with religion, or atheism for that matter.
I believe that a choice of religion, or no religion, should be made when they reach an age of reason.
Children should be taught about moral and responsible behaviour, and not some religious dogma.

But please, what has sexual abuse got to do with religion? It goes on everywhere with or without religion.
Then why "raise a child as a christian"?

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#229519 May 20, 2014
superwilly wrote:
<quoted text>
I was defining what a christian is, ie a christ follower, not promoting or even saying that there is some sort of moral superiority of christianity or christians.
Oh I realise this, I was simply expanding a point that christians (many christians anyway) chose to deem themselves more morally superiority to none christians because that’s what their version of christianity teaches.

That very choice bars them from being christians, a quandary that they do not even realise they are creating.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#229520 May 20, 2014
Divinity Surgeon wrote:
<quoted text>
American christians I presume.
It is the only explanation I can consider because they certainly were not Muslim.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#229521 May 20, 2014
Rodny wrote:
<quoted text>
I definitely agree with you about brainwashing children with religion, or atheism for that matter.
I believe that a choice of religion, or no religion, should be made when they reach an age of reason.
Children should be taught about moral and responsible behaviour, and not some religious dogma.
But please, what has sexual abuse got to do with religion? It goes on everywhere with or without religion.
I believe the sexual abuse that Rosa_Winkel was referring to is the abuse systematically carried out by the catholic church over many decades and has over the last few years been exposed. It has been mostly ignored with several attempts made to hide it by the hierarchy of the church until the last couple of months, when due to constant police and press pressure the Vatican has eventually admitted the crimes of it’s employees.

But true it does go on everywhere, however if priests are to regain the trust that people once held for them then it should now not be happening to children in church. We will have to wait and see.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#229525 May 20, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact that civilisations look for excuses and reasons beyond their understanding is typical of a lack of knowledge and the source of god myths. I do not really see the hebrew/christian/muslim god standing out any more than any other god but more thrown about in anger by uthose who worship that myth and are not willing to accept that other people can have alternative beliefs.
Yes the fact that every culture embraces a common fundamental morality explains the beginning civilisation. Following that founding of civilisation comes the search for why, lack of scientific knowledge results in guesswork and voila, gods are born.
And this is where you opt for religious dogma over fact. Psychological tests have shown that several animal species, most apes, all pig species, some birds etc have their morality, it may not be human morality but morality none the less. Most social animals, dolphins, rats, dogs etc display various degrees of morality, they know right from wrong as appertains to their own social group. But just like so many other scientific advances throughout the centuries, it will probably take religious institutions several hundred years to accept the facts.
Claiming humanity to be the evidence of existence of mythology is typical of the lack of understanding I mentioned earlier. What you have is belief in the existence of one particular god, that is belief, not evidence, belief and nothing more. If you actually had evidence do you really think this discussion would have continued for almost 2000 years? Hell no, but if you do come across such evidence then I suggest you publish and become the centrepiece of abrahamic religion throughout the world. Your fame would be immense and you would be rich beyond avarice. Until then please accept that what you have is faith, not evidence.
“You may want to research the subject before making specious comments”
The assertion that every civilization would solve the unknowingly by creating a fictional god is ludicrous.

"Man is the only animal that blushes."

You dont know what you are talking about.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#229526 May 20, 2014
Rodny wrote:
<quoted text>
Your last sentence is good advice.
In fact you are mistaken on your assesment of primitive religions.
Most all primitive religions didn't have a concept, or belief, in gods. They had ancestor worship, or belief in a spirit world where their dead ancestors, and also the spirits of dead animals, lived.
It was only when humans started forming city and state civilizations that they created gods, or paganism, belief in multiple gods.
In fact ancestor worship and belief in spirits still exists among isolated and primitive societies, like the Indians of the Amazon jungle, some isolated tribes in Africa and Papua New Guinea and other remote places.
This was also the belief and practice of the North American Indians, long before Christianity and paganism.
It is wrong in a way to call these cultures as primitive, because they all had strong moral values. And most of all they lived with nature, so they could experiment and find out on their own about these questions.
One must ask the question of why they all believed the same thing even though they were separated by thousands of miles and millenia without ever meeting or even knowing that they existed.
Even the Cro-Magnon that you study and other pre-humans or early humans believed in an afterlife and spirit world, as can be seen in their cave paintings and burial rituals.
So again one must ask is this an inborn thing with humans or got at by observation and experimentaion?
Lastly I agree with you that most animals and other creatures also have a sense of morality.
One is amazed that there is still so much ignorance about these subjects, even on forums like this.
I am aware of the assumed religious beliefs of ancient peoples and there is no evidence that Cro Magnon believed in an afterlife or a spirit world. There is evidence that they painted certain animals, the animals they did not consider as food and it’s possible that actually worshipped those paintings.

There is evidence in the form of a unique hatched signature that the same artist (or family group) painted the same/similar images across France and Spain. Given the widespread profusion of works it is possible that artists were itinerant and perhaps even highly valued in the communities they painted for.

I have seen at least one documentary to indicate Neanderthal man did perform a sort of ancestor worship, this is speculation without evidence. Last year I spent some time at La Roque St Christophe which includes a Neanderthal burial site and it gave no indication of anything more than the burial of the dead.

It is my belief that the human search for knowledge without the skill or ability to obtain answers leads to the various forms of worship based on guesswork. i.e. we don’t know what happens after death so the dead must go somewhere we don’t know about, lets worship that. The way that deer leaps is really quite beautiful so let’s worship that. That Aurocks is big and powerful so lets worship that.

Yes animal morality is quite widespread despite the protests of many like KiMare

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#229527 May 20, 2014
Rodny wrote:
<quoted text>
And thank God for that. Can you imagine what America would be like if it was Muslim?
One thing's for sure, no atheist would exist if it was so.
It was Christians who founded America and made it a great nation. And who gave people the freedom to be atheists if they wanted.
There are many Muslims in the US despite the prejudices heaped against them by non Muslim Americans and the anti muslim press.

Not quite true, there were many christians among the founders of the US but not all by a long shot and the country was not founded on christian principals

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#229528 May 20, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
The assertion that every civilization would solve the unknowingly by creating a fictional god is ludicrous.
"Man is the only animal that blushes."
You dont know what you are talking about.
Why is it ludicrous, because the great god KiMare decrees it? Historically it seems to be fact, there has never been any proof of any deity yet for the last 10,000 years or so deities have cropped up as civilisations flourish. So logical conclusion comes to mind.

WTF has the blush response got to do with anything? Anyway we don’t know if humanity is the only species that feels embarrassment, it is the only one we know about for sure.

Wrong, I know exactly what I am talking about however you seem to be incapable of assimilating facts that contradict you idea of goddunit wiv magic.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#229529 May 20, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>Why is it ludicrous, because the great god KiMare decrees it? Historically it seems to be fact, there has never been any proof of any deity yet for the last 10,000 years or so deities have cropped up as civilisations flourish. So logical conclusion comes to mind.

WTF has the blush response got to do with anything? Anyway we don’t know if humanity is the only species that feels embarrassment, it is the only one we know about for sure.

Wrong, I know exactly what I am talking about however you seem to be incapable of assimilating facts that contradict you idea of goddunit wiv magic.
Dogs get embarrassed. It's adorable.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#229530 May 20, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is it ludicrous, because the great god KiMare decrees it? Historically it seems to be fact, there has never been any proof of any deity yet for the last 10,000 years or so deities have cropped up as civilisations flourish. So logical conclusion comes to mind.
WTF has the blush response got to do with anything? Anyway we don’t know if humanity is the only species that feels embarrassment, it is the only one we know about for sure.
Wrong, I know exactly what I am talking about however you seem to be incapable of assimilating facts that contradict you idea of goddunit wiv magic.
Cultural history is about 8000 years. All cultural history includes deities.

Blushing is an indication of morality.

Just how would you confirm an animal has a moral code?

You don't know what you are talking about.

Smile.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#229531 May 20, 2014
Divinity Surgeon wrote:
<quoted text>
Dogs get embarrassed. It's adorable.
No, they don't.

Smile.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#229532 May 20, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is it ludicrous, because the great god KiMare decrees it? Historically it seems to be fact, there has never been any proof of any deity yet for the last 10,000 years or so deities have cropped up as civilisations flourish. So logical conclusion comes to mind.
WTF has the blush response got to do with anything? Anyway we don’t know if humanity is the only species that feels embarrassment, it is the only one we know about for sure.
Wrong, I know exactly what I am talking about however you seem to be incapable of assimilating facts that contradict you idea of goddunit wiv magic.
The chance of every culture coming up with the same explanation of a fictional supernatural being(s), is ludicrous.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#229533 May 20, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>It is the only explanation I can consider because they certainly were not Muslim.
Typical really.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#229534 May 20, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>No, they don't.

Smile.
Yes, they do.

Interpretive dance.

“let's do this thang!”

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#229535 May 20, 2014
Thinking wrote:
You don't.
<quoted text>
oh i see - so you live by ignorant & blind faith, based solely on your bias and bigotry against the revelation of the Son of God - Jesus the Christ!

seems like all y'all atheists are gonna get what you deserve......

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